Independent Sen. Bernie Sanders said Sunday he doesn’t know that a ceasefire is possible in the Israel-Hamas war with “an organization like Hamas” involved.
“I don’t know how you can have a ceasefire, (a) permanent ceasefire, with an organization like Hamas, which is dedicated to turmoil and chaos and destroying the state of Israel,” Sanders told CNN’s Dana Bash on “State of the Union” Sunday.
Remember people,
Hamas != Palestina
Putin’s mafia != Russia
Also with regard to Russians. I work retail, and lately have more and more Russians come in, speaking broken English, very polite, always respectful.
It both warms and breaks my heart to see them. It’s so sad that they’ve left their homeland, but it’s inspiring that they decided they’d rather move across the planet than be puppets to a warlord so deranged as to conscript soldiers.
They always seem a little sheepish. Always like “sorry, sorry” for asking me questions, for taking up my time. I just want to tell them “I’m so glad you’re here! You’re a blessing to me! Stop apologizing please!” but unless they come out and tell me their situation it’s not my place to comment on it.
We’ve got this dim view of “draft dodgers”, but the reality is it takes courage to say no to one’s own government, to put oneself in danger to avoid becoming an armed puppet of someone else’s ambition.
They generally are, but one Russian lady was walking around our downtown and spray painted z on some of our crosswalk push buttons. Some of the other Russians I have met came over long ago to escape Russia or even the USSR and have nothing good to say about it.
I feel waaaay more sorry for my Ukrainian friends and coworkers, particularly my friend’s wife whose family back in Luhansk and Melitopol were bombed and sent to filtration camps. Never heard back from two of her cousins, 16 year old boys.
I don’t think there’s actually a dim view of draft dodgers, just the ones that then try to be war hawk politicians
I keep thinking about “how much responsibility does a people have for its government?”
I’d say that Israel has zero moral claim to blame Gazans for Hamas, for one specific reason: the blockade on weapons into Gaza.
I think that if Gazans’ natural right to arm themselves were respected, it would be a different story. But there is literally no way for the Gazans to depose their ruling junta, because (a) that junta isn’t offering any elections and (b) the means to do it more directly are being denied to them.
Like, I think that we in the USA bear more responsibility for our government than Gazans bear for Hamas, because we have regular elections and we have access to weapons. We have two layers of escape clause from our government; they don’t have any.
I agree Hamas != Palestine. Hamas is just using the Palestinians as hostages. Like a “bodyguard” that you didn’t hire, can’t get to stop following you, and who regularly attacks people then hides behind you.
Natural Right to arn themselves
… holy shit, this is peek shitamericanssay
I agree on the Hamas != Palestine though, but I feel like the citizens of Gaza are not completely without blame in this.
This. In a modern society there’s no natural right (or even a need) to own firearms.
And it’s hard to imagine that Hamas could smuggle weapons, build rockets in basements, set up launchers between apartment blocks, fire missiles and return to step one - if the people of Palestine actually opposed them. But since they are able to do all of this, at least a significant portion of the people must actively support them and basically everyone else needs to tolerate their presence and activities.
Are you then advocating for supplying weapons to Gaza?
Do you feel that would be a wise decision?
Because most Israelis are pissed at their PM for allowing Qatari funding to Gaza and Hamas. I would love to see their reaction to weapons being supplied to them. It would probably look pretty similar to what they are doing now.
Blink twice if you are been kidnapped
I don’t think peace is possible when one side is holding the other in an open air prison and giving them only the amount of calories needed to not die (after the war started even that was suspended)
Ok are you talking about Hamas or the Palestinian people? Cause I keep being told they’re different, and that Hamas doesn’t represent Palestinians, yet here you are talking about them as if they’re the same. So which is it? Cause you’re asking me to feel bad for Hamas fighters? Cause I won’t.
I didn’t mention Hamas, I said Israel is oppressing Palestinians and you should feel bad for the nearly 4,000 children that died.
No, you probably can’t. But you can, however, hold the moral high ground and offer one.
Here is a list of peace offers which would grant the Palestinians a country of their own, they refused all of them
1937 - Peel commission, rejected
1947 - Partition resolution, rejected
2000 - Camp David, rejected
2001 - Taba, rejected. Arafat starts the second intifada and a year later changes his mind.
2008 - Olmert offer, rejected
Hamas have tried to agree to boundaries Despite media attempts to portray it as a new Hamas charter, it is not. The new ‘policy document’ accepts the creation of a Palestinian state in 1967 borders, but still rejects Israel and claims its territory. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-39775103
Here are some other noteworthy peace meeting or proposals from Israel to the rest if the Arab world, which were rejected
1919: Arabs of Palestine refused nominate representatives to the Paris Peace Conference.
1920: San Remo conference decisions, rejected.
1922: League of Nations decisions, rejected.
1937: Peel Commission partition proposal, rejected.
1938: Woodhead partition proposal, rejected
1947: UN General Assembly partition proposal (UNGAR 181), rejected.
1949: Israel’s outstretched hand for peace (UNGAR 194), rejected.
1967: Israel’s outstretched hand for peace (UNSCR 242), rejected.
1978: Begin/Sa’adat peace proposal, rejected (except for Egypt).
1994: Rabin/Hussein peace agreement, rejected by the rest of the Arab League (except for Egypt).
1995: Rabin’s Contour-for-Peace, rejected.
2000: Barak/Clinton peace offer, rejected.
2001: Barak’s offer at Taba, rejected.
2005: Sharon’s peace gesture, withdrawal from Gaza, rejected.
2008: Olmert/Bush peace offer, rejected.
2009 to 2021: Netanyahu’s repeated invitations to peace talks, rejected.
2014: Kerry’s Contour-for-Peace, rejected.
Not gonna link Trump’s imbecilic peace plan as an example.
Here is a list of peace offers
the Palestiniansthe governing body of palestinians offered to Israel -None
That doesn’t sound right. One of those was stopped by an assassination. One was stopped by conservatives gaining power in Israel. One was stopped by a war between Fatah and Hamas.
The PLO offered peace in 2010, 2012, 2013, and 2014 and were stopped by Israel.
Many were stopped because of a Hamas attack or Israel refusing to stop taking West Bank territory.
It seems like you were saying that because Palestine didn’t give in to Israel’s demands every time that it’s always their fault.
This is from some quick research, though. Someone feel free to correct me.
The PLO offered peace in 2010, 2012, 2013, and 2014
Yes, and it was all for shit because hamas threatened violence if any party thought about compromise. Aka. Exactly what i wrote.
Kind of, but not really. You were equating Hamas and all Palestinians together. They’re not all the same. Lots of Palestinians want peace, including ones that have been in governing positions. I’m glad you crossed out the one sentence that did that but you’ve still got this one:
Here is a list of peace offers which would grant the Palestinians a country of their own, they refused all of them
That’s a very ambiguous “they” up there and seems to refer to all Palestinians and not just Hamas.
Hamas has been a great excuse to break off peace negotiations, though. I can see why Bibi propped them up to prevent a two state solution. It’s worked wonders, although hopefully the blowback of this past event takes him out of political life forever now.
But USA can’t waste billions of taxpayer’s money on this if they do so
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I think he’s right in a more technical sense. You can’t have a cease-fire unless everyone stops firing. If someone isn’t going to stop firing, you can’t have a cease fire with them.
It takes two to cease fire, so to speak.
He explicitly said they need to stop bombing civilians several times. Read the fucking article dipshit.
Honestly this is the most coherent take Sanders has had on Israel this decade.
Category section of Bernie’s wikipage: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernie_Sanders
so, you know Bernie, fuck you.
If your reaction to something Bernie said or did is “fuck you”, you should read more. He said that the bombings need to stop ASAP, then the whole world needs to help things progress to a two-state solution.
“I don’t know how you can have a ceasefire, (a) permanent ceasefire, with an organization like Hamas, which is dedicated to turmoil and chaos and destroying the state of Israel,
This is pretty clear to me. this fallacy of saying “destroying the state of Israel”, which is
- impossible - this a high-end military state
- this is Israel which is fucking destroying palestine, there is no more factual than this.
- hamas* or whatever you call it today is just “replying” to this fact
As far as I know, this is not Israeli which get their water/food/electricity/movement/borders controlled, this is not Israeli under the bombs, this is not Israeli moving to the south…
So Bernie… we can’t even talk kind of chessmaster rhetoric (“ya know, he critics Israel behind”), this is pure cowardice if not dishonesty (by its affiliation)
*cause of course, Isreal is creating generation of - legit - haters
He kind of has a point. The idea that a permanent ceasefire with Hamas is impossible has some merit. The keyword here is permanent, that any ceasefire will eventually collapse and lead to this situation happening again. Then he clarifies what should be done instead.
I don’t agree with him on this point, don’t get me wrong, but the point seems to be that a return to pre-Oct 7 conditions won’t do any favors for everybody. He says this too in the article:
“The immediate task right now is to end the bombing,” Sanders said Sunday, “to end the horrific humanitarian disaster, to build – go forward with the entire world for a two-tier, two-state solution to the crisis to give the Palestinian people hope.”
That’s a pretty agreeable position.
Again, you are ignoring the context. This is not Hamas - or whatever you call it today - a population is getting decimated on a faster pace right now! 7 Oct was tragic (still, not everything has been investigated yet and we know Israeli’s trend to inflate shit) but it CAN’T be drawn as a sacred milestone which could erase all the previous and atrocious forfeits, should I say “crimes”, committed by Israel.
I mean he says the bombing needs to end and has voted as much in the Senate… He’s definitely not claiming Israel is in any way innocent.
We’re falling into the trap of “Do you condemn Hamas” here. Not any mention of Hamas needs to be accompanied by a condemnation of Israel, just as not every mention of Israel needs to come with a condemnation of Hamas.
We’re falling into the trap of “Do you condemn Hamas” here.
Not at all, I see what you mean but no. The “relation” is irrelevant here. Who has the power, the control and who is dying?
That’s such a simplistic view though, how long would you ignore a country firing missiles at you and sneaking in to kill civilians? Israel spent staggering sums on defensive security rather than just carpet bombing and still they find ways to kill Israelies.
And they always will, the leader of Hamas went to Iran again the other day to talk about further support that Iran can give them - they already train Palestinian fighters, supply them with missiles, scuba suits, paragliders, and tunnel making equipment. This isn’t just a small city being bullied it’s a proxy war, and yeah there are people in Palestine who don’t support Hamas but it’s not just Israel that’s too blame for their bad experience - fundamentalist despots need them to be there suffering and dying so they can have a reason to keep attacking Israel, so they can hold Israel up as a bogeyman to cement their power at home.
This isn’t a simple situation, Israel can’t just stop fighting and tear down it’s walls.
