Context:
Sorry for not seeing this earlier. Work was hell today.
Your correct. This isn’t racism. I’m reinstating your comment now.
Thanks
I left .world a while ago, I didn’t leave Reddit to put up with the same bullshit on Lemmy
Yeah the mods of the news Community being in favor of fascism doesn’t surprise me.
Is that actually a tolerable opinion in the sense of “paradox of tolerance”? Or is it hate speech that leads to intolerance?
Like “deport all jews from greater palestine” would mean ethnic cleansing which would not be tolerable. The only logical solution seems to be a 1 state solution that would need decades of investment, reeducation, de-nazification and de-radicalization on both sides.
Or said differently, “Palestine doesn’t have a right to exist” is not tolerable right?
Historic arguments that wold have been valid 70 years ago are now not useful since the reality is like it is. Something like “USA doesn’t have a right to exist, Europeans go home!” doesn’t make sense either except in the hypothetical where it would .
‘The Russians occupying Crimea cannot be deported that would be ethnic cleansing’. No it would not. There were Nazis occupying Polish houses and they were kicked out after WW2 and sent back where they came from.
‘Deport all Jews from Palestine’ would be ethnic cleansing as many Jews lived in Palestine before Zionism.
Palestinians have the full right to all their land back. If a European colonist is currently occupying it that is not their problem. The fact that their parents stole it in an ethnic cleansing does not change this in the slightest. Nor does them being Jewish mean that they suddenly get a special antisemitism exception to do colonialism and steal people’s houses.
South Africa ended a similar system of apartheid and the effects of that, including the beneficiaries of apartheid choosing to leave the country (often to Israel so they could keep doing apartheid) were preferable to keeping the unjust system.
Saying Israel doesn’t have a right to exist isn’t the same as saying all Jews should be forced to leave. Ideally, if they want to then they should be free to live in a country where Jews and Palestinians have equal rights, including the right to vote, such a country would no longer be an ethnostate and would probably not chose to call itself “Israel.”
Saying Israel doesn’t have a right to exist isn’t the same as saying all Jews should be forced to leave.
But it is virtually indistinguishable of what someone would say if they wished for ethnic cleansing. At the very least it sounds like a dog whistle. You could instead say Zionism or apartheid or fascist Israel has no right to exist.
And yeah, my original comment is also virtually indistinguishable from a mealymouthed moderate liberal lol.
But it is virtually indistinguishable of what someone would say if they wished for ethnic cleansing. At the very least it sounds like a dog whistle.
I have no patience for equating anti-zionism with antisemitism like this. This tactic is frequently used in bad faith by zionists to dismiss all criticism of Israel and to paint people as bigots for acknowledging that Palestinians have rights. For example, the US State Department explicitly lists criticism of the state of Israel as a form of “antisemitism,” “Denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination, e.g., by claiming that the existence of a State of Israel is a racist endeavor,” and, “Drawing comparisons of contemporary Israeli policy to that of the Nazis,” are both listed as example of it. Israel is an enthostate and it’s engaged in genocide and Lebensraum, and you have to be willing to brush off such spurious accusations of antisemitism to be reasonable.
No one said anything about Israelis or Jews or ethnic cleansing. What we’ve said is that Israel - the geopolitical entity - does not have a right to exist. It doesn’t. We could use a different term for Israel but we are in no way obligated to and shouldn’t be expected to. What we say is what we mean. If you read in some hidden meaning that we don’t say then you could do the same for just about anything anybody says.
I’m also disgusted by the rhetoric and new fascist antisemitism “definition”. I’m not uninformed or pro-Israel at all.
But I definitely consider “Palestine has no right to exist” as hate speech and would demand censoring / banning that. Because there is a clear implication. We can not afford to allow tolerance towards intolerance.
The only thing I would say in favor of OP is that because Palestine is currently weaker and the oppressed victim, and rightfully outraged, it’s not fair to demand higher standards from them and is therefor hypocritical.
During WWII I don’t think it would be unreasonable to say, “Germany doesn’t have a right to exist,” but if you said “Poland doesn’t have a right to exist,” that would be pretty different. The latter is justifying subjugation of the country but the former is objecting to the state doing the subjugating.
PTB
Zionists are on the wrong side of history
Whats PTB?
What a group of assholes to down vote you for asking. It’s pulmonary tuberculosis. I mean that’s the main thing that comes up when searching. It took a couple minutes to find “powers that be” and I’m not sure that that fits perfectly with the flow, or that it would be the most common acronym. I’d assume based on the context of the thread. On the other hand “please text back” is probably more commonly used.
Conflating zionist state of israel with the jewish people is anti-semitism. Israel does not represent all jewish people worldwide.
I agree. How do we get the world to recognize that fact?
Genuinely asking, because seeing the Australian government bow to Zionist pigs over this is really tiring me out.
Zionists occupying Gaza is itself anti-semitic, as the occupied residents are mostly semitic peoples. And there is absolutely a racial component.
#MODS MODS THIS MAN RIGHT HERE 😭
I mean… it’s an illegitimate state after all.
It can’t be racism unless you first admit it’s an ethnostate.
That’s actually a really good catch.
If Israel is an ethnostate, then saying “Israel did something bad” is now by default saying “Jews here did something bad.”
And it works for their “anything calling us out is antisemitic” and the people who think being Anti-Zionism are antisemitic.
It helps deflect any claim. South Africa wishes it had that idea.
PTB. .world’s stances continue to be completely indistinguishable from State Department propaganda. I guess it was only a matter of time until the mods started cracking down on anti-Zionism. Fully expect to see them ban someone for promoting BDS next.
Would be hillarious if they put an anti-BDS clause in the .world terms of service.
Honestly, they should just make users recite the Pledge of Allegiance to sign up.
What a shocker that someone banned from a community for trolling and sharing misinformation is here to let everyone know that said community is bad.
You wouldn’t be complaining about this at all if it was .ml banning someone.
.world is a festering mess of liberalism, you say?
Colour me surprised.
The place that banned all criticism of Biden/Harris and then wondered where all the critics went, justifying their bad beliefs that all of them were bots? Yeah I wonder why its a shitlib utopia.
I don’t actually recall the .world mods or admins themselves calling people bots, and I’ve recently seen them removing comments containing bot accusations.
The admins don’t, but a lot of the userbase used t (and still does) calls anyone who mildly critcized Harris as a secret Russian asset/bot, or a useful idiot who bought into the campaign.
When Biden was bad at the debate and I said “Man he looks so unfit for this” I was called a russian bot. I reported the comments and nothing got removed or banned.
And I recently got banned from !politicalmemes@lemmy.world because I defended myself from a moronic shitlib troll. The troll didn’t get banned, I did.
It’s wild how .world has somehow managed to become an even worse reddit lmao
Not that wild when you remember how often they defend transphobia, genocide, capitalism, wanted “both sides” for things like flat world cranks, and then defend the users who moderate communities that stifle disagreement with these concepts.
After everyone pointed out how terrible the flat earth idea was did they ever do their updated version?
Or was that just their way of saying look away as we still do what everyone hated
I don’t think they did it, no. I could be wrong, but man the fact they thought that “Yes, we will tolerate batshit crazy people like flat world people, because debate is healthy” instead of going “No you fucking morons aren’t allowed.”
Still nothing, at least nothing from same person who did the post, or in the comm
https://lemmy.world/post/24135976
Guess soon means different things to them.
Coming soon, valve time!
I’m saying it’s wild how they got to the point of doing all that shit in the first place. And now there’s an even worse reddit.
if .world was mass defederated, I’d miss like 6 users and maybe 2 communities, that’s it.
PTB.
That said you’re biting obvious bait - a good chunk of those discussions boil down to ambiguous words referring to both actual human beings and states/governments, to defend the later as if it was an attack on the former.
Yes, people called Israel exist.
But from the thread the comment was placed in, it should be clear I was talking about the apartheid colonizing Palestine. Not a persons right to existence
It was clear for me, too. However, a lot of people struggle to tell apart two things when you use the same word to refer to them, and that’s one of those cases.
My suggestion in this regard is to always use “state of Israel” instead. You’ll still get some bans, but it becomes harder for supporters of the genocidal state to claim “no, ur teh 1 defending genoside”.
This would require acknowledging Israel as a state, which it is not.
Nobody uses the term "state of Israel to refer to it. Demonstrated by the title of the posted article “Israel announces expansion…”. Not a single person raises the question if this means a person called “Israel” is planning to become so obese that they occlude the Gaza strip.
The word “Israel” suffices and the .World moderators know perfectly well what is means. There is no ambiguity to hide behind.
This would require acknowledging Israel as a state, which it is not.
Israel is a government controlling a population and a territory. It is a state by definition. To claim otherwise is fucking stupid.
And that’s central here. A state is an “it”; unlike human beings, it has no right to defend itself. And it should be dismantled once it harms actual people, just like Nazi Germany was.
Demonstrated by the title of the posted article
Yeah, just like article titles demonstrate English has no articles. Pfffft.
Not a single person raises the question
That’s why you totally weren’t banned for “racism”, as if you were targetting actual people instead of a genocidal power structure, right? Right??? Oh wait.
The word “Israel” suffices
This sounds exactly the same as
“Since I’m too stubborn to avoid falling into the sort of trap nationalists love to set up, I’ll keep helping the Zionists and clueless muppets to equate «attacks against Israel» = «racism».”
You might not be a Zionist but you’re certainly eager to contribute with them.
An occupation is not a state. If controlling an area and population with government would make something a state, the RSF in Sudan would be a state and Crimea would be transferred into Russia the moment it got occupied.
Your comment is the definition of
“This is hurting your cause - person against cause”
Ethno-states run by power-tripping pigs have no right to exist.
I can sort of see how they got there, but I don’t think any nation has the right to exist. I’m sure if you swapped it with any other nation they wouldn’t remove it.
PTB from flat.world as usual.
deleted by creator
It’s sort of fun to note that many of the people that are always upset and angry about .world moderation are the ones that have been banned for trolling and spreading misinformation there.
It’s almost as if there’s a bias from the people that are always accusing others of bias!
“Hey I got banned for saying genocide is bad, maybe the mods there suck?”
“You’re just mad about getting banned, loser!”
It’s sort of fun to note that many of the people that are always supportive about .world moderation are Zionists.
It’s almost as if there’s a bias from the people that are always accusing others of bias!
Hilarious!
Genocide is funny to you, understood.
