Things I have been told:
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Chinese sources about Chinese elections being democratic, which to me is like American sources telling me America is good.
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That Venezuela’s election was legit.
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That I’m too propagandized from the West.
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That any protests against said goverments are CIA-made.
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That democracy is a bourgeoisie invention to control the proletariat.
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That Ukraine is full of Nazis/Russia is threatened by NATO
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That the EU is a bourgeoisie organization that should be dissolved “to give power to nations again”, something that Elon said too, and in neither case I do believe it was said genuinely.
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That all states are authoritarian, as if China’s or NK’s authoritarianism was better than Spain’s or France’s.
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That authoritarianism is just an insult to throw to socialist states.
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That freedom of press is a bourgeoisie invention to control the narrative.
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That LGTB and racism are irrelevant to the movement (which I don’t really think is the general feeling, but still have been told several times)
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That I just don’t get working for the collective good instead of individual goals, or even that human rights are less important than the collective good (not straight up said, but heavily implied stuff like “the common good is more important than personal freedom”…)
Things I have observed:
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Chinese elections, which I had researched about before and, with due respect, seemed like fascist Italy’s “pre-approved deputies Yes or No” election.
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North Korean elections, which I also researched, and seemed even more restrictive than China’s, with a single ballot you can give as is, or ask for a pen to cross out names (which usually comes with consequences).
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Venezuelan elections being rigged by Maduro through the government-controlled national electoral council declaring him victorious even though the found voting tallies from polling stations showed victory for González.
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Opression in supposedly socialist or communist states is seen as neccesary to keep capitalists in check, but a lesser degree of oppression in capitalist states is seen as a reason to follow the type of socialism of the supposed socialist states.
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The means of production are owned by the state, but the state isn’t really owned by the people, only by itself, therefore the means of production aren’t owned by the people either.
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There are still billionaires in China. I’m told they are kept in check by the CPC, but still, how the hell are there billionaires in a supposedly socialist country? Which ties with the next point
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“Socialist china”, but there are still lots of sweatshops making stuff that’s sold to the west, which is how I guess there are billionaires…
It makes me feel like either
- A lot of people romanticize authoritarian communist states like that “Thing VS Thing, Japan” meme, something like “Authoritarianism VS Authoritarianism, Self-proclaimed Communist State”, which I find rather concerning as we aim to get rid of the exploitation of the workers, not just change who does it.
OR
- A lot of bad actors are co-opting marxist movements in general to whitewash the image of their authoritarian states, create divisions in the west to de-estabilize it, or push certain parties that will help them one way or another, which I very obviously don’t want to fall for.
Could someone explain it all to me? It has made me incredibly wary of nearly anything that’s “China says their elections are democratic”, “western propaganda”, etc. –
You have a lot of different things you mention, but, here’s atleast one thing I can talk about off the top of the dome.
This is not a concrete Marxist conclusion, this is an error often made called class reductionism. Class reductionism is the error of analysis that says that the only relevant conflict in our time is just class conflict (I.e. workers vs bourgeoisie) and that other things like anti-imperialism or anti-racism or feminism or queer liberation are distractions.
However, the reality is that the oppression of ethnic minorities, queer people, women, immigrants, and the colonized actually are class issues which manifest in a different way. These are social inventions that have evolved over time as tools for the ruling class to divide the working class; but it’s not be ignoring these things that we unify as a class. Instead anti-racism, LGBTQ liberation, women’s liberation etc are essential positions for any socialist to have because these issues are issues which affect the working class.
Women’s Liberation is necessary because the ruling class uses the oppression of women to divide and subjugate us. Black and brown liberation is necessary because the ruling class uses racism and national chauvanism to divide and subjugate us. LGBTQ liberation is necessary because the ruling class uses queerphobia to divide and subjugate us. These are not distractions, but fighting these things is essential to connect to regular people who experience these things on a daily basis.
For more information, especially pertaining to black liberation in the US, this liberation news article has some good context and history.