Things I have been told:

  • Chinese sources about Chinese elections being democratic, which to me is like American sources telling me America is good.

  • That Venezuela’s election was legit.

  • That I’m too propagandized from the West.

  • That any protests against said goverments are CIA-made.

  • That democracy is a bourgeoisie invention to control the proletariat.

  • That Ukraine is full of Nazis/Russia is threatened by NATO

  • That the EU is a bourgeoisie organization that should be dissolved “to give power to nations again”, something that Elon said too, and in neither case I do believe it was said genuinely.

  • That all states are authoritarian, as if China’s or NK’s authoritarianism was better than Spain’s or France’s.

  • That authoritarianism is just an insult to throw to socialist states.

  • That freedom of press is a bourgeoisie invention to control the narrative.

  • That LGTB and racism are irrelevant to the movement (which I don’t really think is the general feeling, but still have been told several times)

  • That I just don’t get working for the collective good instead of individual goals, or even that human rights are less important than the collective good (not straight up said, but heavily implied stuff like “the common good is more important than personal freedom”…)

Things I have observed:

  • Chinese elections, which I had researched about before and, with due respect, seemed like fascist Italy’s “pre-approved deputies Yes or No” election.

  • North Korean elections, which I also researched, and seemed even more restrictive than China’s, with a single ballot you can give as is, or ask for a pen to cross out names (which usually comes with consequences).

  • Venezuelan elections being rigged by Maduro through the government-controlled national electoral council declaring him victorious even though the found voting tallies from polling stations showed victory for González.

  • Opression in supposedly socialist or communist states is seen as neccesary to keep capitalists in check, but a lesser degree of oppression in capitalist states is seen as a reason to follow the type of socialism of the supposed socialist states.

  • The means of production are owned by the state, but the state isn’t really owned by the people, only by itself, therefore the means of production aren’t owned by the people either.

  • There are still billionaires in China. I’m told they are kept in check by the CPC, but still, how the hell are there billionaires in a supposedly socialist country? Which ties with the next point

  • “Socialist china”, but there are still lots of sweatshops making stuff that’s sold to the west, which is how I guess there are billionaires…

It makes me feel like either

  • A lot of people romanticize authoritarian communist states like that “Thing VS Thing, Japan” meme, something like “Authoritarianism VS Authoritarianism, Self-proclaimed Communist State”, which I find rather concerning as we aim to get rid of the exploitation of the workers, not just change who does it.

OR

  • A lot of bad actors are co-opting marxist movements in general to whitewash the image of their authoritarian states, create divisions in the west to de-estabilize it, or push certain parties that will help them one way or another, which I very obviously don’t want to fall for.

Could someone explain it all to me? It has made me incredibly wary of nearly anything that’s “China says their elections are democratic”, “western propaganda”, etc. –

  • Commiejones@lemmygrad.ml
    51·
    1 month ago

    You’ve got a lot of "I have heard"s that sound like you misheard them. You heard this one correctly though:

    That I’m too propagandized from the West.

    Look at usa giving weapons to israel while they commit a genocide. Look at the western press justifying/whitewashing/playing down/ and now just not reporting the genocide. Remember the first time they bombed a hospital and the pres went for like a week agreeing with the zionists that it was a Hamas rocket?
    Nothing they tell you can be trusted. If they tell you the sky is blue grab an umbrella because the sky is grey and raining. If they tell you water is wet go double check. This goes for almost everything you learned in school, everything you’ve seen on tv or in movies, everything you have heard in church, etc.

    That democracy is a bourgeoisie invention to control the proletariat

    You misheard this one. Democracy means rule by the people. Representative democracy where people vote once every few years is not democracy. Liberal Representative Democracy is an invention meant to keep the lower classes from revolt with the illusion of control.

    That Ukraine is full of Nazis/Russia is threatened by NATO

    Even BBC reported the fact that the 2014 coup put neo-nazis in power. The post 2014 veneration of Bandera is well documented with dozens of statues and streets named after him in the years between the coup and the SMO. Bandera was an anti-semitic fascist who’s OUN was responsible for mass killings and genocide. Nato specifically excluded the USSR after ww2 because they saw it as a threat. (they were also directly involved in the counter revolution in USSR between ww1 and 2) After the breakup of the USSR Putin asked to join Nato and Clinton said yes at first but then said the deep state said no. If it was a peaceful alliance and they wanted peace with Russia they would have invited the Russians. NATO was always made to keep the europeans from fighting each other by focusing them on the USSR and then Russia.

    That all states are authoritarian, as if China’s or NK’s authoritarianism was better than Spain’s or France’s. That authoritarianism is just an insult to throw to socialist states.

    “authoritarian” means having a system of centralized power that demands obedience to authority and limits personal freedom. To exist a state must by its very nature be authoritarian.
    The way China uses its authority is to make sure everyone has what they need and nobody has so much wealth they can use it to buy the right to harm others.
    In the west the authority is used to protect the rich from their own mistakes (like with bank bailouts) and protect their ability to exploit workers.

    That LGTB and racism are irrelevant to the movement (which I don’t really think is the general feeling, but still have been told several times)

    Race and sexuality are irrelevant. Racism and Homophobia are not irrelevant because they are weaponized identity. Identity politics are a tool of the ruling class used to divide workers. If white and black workers are fighting each other they aren’t fighting the exploiters. We need to fight all forms of bigotry because we want the emancipation of all people and we need all people to be rowing the same way.

    Thats al I have for now.