Following the announcement by beehaw admins to defederate from lemmy.world and sh.itjust.works, there has been many posts and messages regarding that decisions and what other instances will do.
I personally believe Lemmy/kbin can only thrive if there is a free flow of content between different instances, with instance admins taking a back seat and focusing more on the infrastructure and making sure the technical bugs are smoothened out. Community mods can moderate their communities, and users can block the communities they don’t find appealing (there’s even a toggle in settings to hide every NSFW post from your feed altogether).
We don’t want to create walled gardens, nor do we want to make Lemmy more confusing than it already is for new users. We will not be defederating from any instance if there is even one good community on it that our instance users might find useful. So far we have only blocked lemmygrad.ml, and right now we have no plans to block anyone else.
I just want to be able to control what I see. I have no desire to control what other people see and I sure as fuck don’t want other people to control what I see.
That’s it. That’s my entire position on the matter.
I am dismayed with how many people want to control what others can see.
Beehaw defederated because of users, not communities though. They wanted to control who could comment, not what people could see.
Their intent is irrelevant to my point.
I will say that I sometimes like to visit controversial communities due to curiosity, and to be amazed at all the insane and braindead things people say. Furthermore, I don’t like living in a bubble, and knowing what people I disagree with say/think is important to forming well-informed opinions. So sometimes I do like to subscribe to communities on even places like lemmygrad just for those reasons. It’s annoying when instances block controversial instances, because controversy often interesting and very lurkable. I understand why those places are blocked, and I definitely don’t want to see fascist bs on my feed all the time. But I wish I could have the best of both worlds.
I wanna decide what I get to see. It would be cool if the instances could be blocked on a followers-only basis. Like, blocked for the all feeds, blocked in general. But not for me if I follow it.
I actually chose this instance in large part because it only blocks one other one lol
Are we not capable of hiding things we don’t want to see on Lemmy ourselves? Why would I want to be babysat by anyone when I can make adult choices on what I want to see my own damn self? Censorship was what ruined Reddit years ago. Leave it entirely up to the users.
I’ll echo this sentiment. I also lurk communities that I don’t agree with, and I want to see dissenting views. I find that heavy moderation often just leads to echo chambers where real issues can be kicked under the rug
In my point of view it’s a kind of censorship. Just let the user himself decide what he wants to see.
I’m gonna give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you’re a second language speaker where “user” is a masculine noun, but other genders exist lol. I encourage you to use “themselves” instead.
Akchually, since we’re being annoyingly corrective, shouldn’t it be “themself”?
OR is it able-ist to assume the commentor does not express multiple personalities?
Lol… Alright take the upvote.
Yeah I guess I reordered it “Just let the user decide themselves…” in my head.
As I guessed the commenter was a German speaker. This is a very common occurrence and not something malicious (check like every boardgame from Germany referring to “the player” as “he”), just lost in translation.
Never meant to be annoying or holier-than-thou, people can genuinely misunderstand that it’s some sexist remark, and so I pointed it out. Just said it so the commenter hopefully isn’t misunderstood in the future.
So, if you feel that’s some woke-ass snowflake nonsense, be my guest lol
On the internet whoever you’re conversing with is male unless explicitly stated. It really really does not matter since it’s all just randos on the internet anyway. Please note the large number of down votes you got for actually caring.
On the internet whoever you’re conversing with is male unless explicitly stated
“OH mY gOd, aRE yoU a GiRL???” In a game lobby.
Same vibes.
Just reiterating, that the original poster was German as I suspected, and pointing it out might spare them being misunderstood in the future. I have no regrets.
A bit facetious innit
Live and let live
Yea okay. In German you mostly use the masculine noun
Yeah that’s what I guessed! Alles gut :)
Thx admin chief 👍👍
Just throwing my opinion in… Since we can block communities on our own, we don’t really need someone to decide which to block for us. I mean, it’s not my instance, so you can do whatever you want, and I actually might’ve decided to block lemmygrad.ml myself, but I’d still rather see the posts and make that determination myself.
Completely agree with this. I can block anything I don’t want to see, and I’d rather not have someone else decide that for me
Can you blanket block comments from other instances users?
I am not a fan of Beehaw’s decision, but I can’t a setting where you can actually do this.
I sort of agree, but I also know that as Lemmy becomes more popular, defederating will become necessary as trolls and hate groups open instances. It’s a problem on Mastodon. A trans friend there posted about her experience bra shopping and a bunch of transphobes from other Mastodon servers came in to attack her, including an admin of one server who called her a slur and told her to stop reporting because they’d never remove anything hateful towards trans people.
On a centralized service like Reddit, hate subs can just be quarantined by the admins or removed wholesale. With a decentralized service, every instance will need to defederate those groups to keep them out. There’s no way to bar them from making a new server.
I think it’s different with Lemmy since people make posts in communities and it’s in the community moderator’s power to remove problematic comments.
If an entire instance supports or encourages such behaviour though, then you’re right and such instances should be defederated.
It’s important to choose your home wisely.
I have an account here on kbin.social, but I also wanted a dedicated lemmy account. I chose fmhy because it aligns with what I want: hearing every voice, for better or for worse. I considered beehaw due to their large gaming community, but I read about their philosophy and saw that they were trying to create more of a safe space for their users (suspicion recently confirmed). If someone wants a more positive experience without having to worry about trolling and harassment, beehaw would be the better choice. I am personally fine with treading through sludge to find hidden gems, so I made my own choice.
Bear in mind that defederation
isn’t bidirectional. If beehaw decides to defederate fmhy, I don’t care, I can still see gaming@beehaw and interact with users that live on instances still federated with my own. But the beehaw users are safe from from troll-friendly hosts, so everybody wins.This isn’t true, as pointed out by zinklog. It can still be worked around by having accounts in multiple places, but even with the eventual account migration feature, this makes it impossible for anyone to see everything in any one place. Maybe this can be fixed in the future, as the fediverse continues to develop?To directly map it to the example of your friend, if she chose to live on an instance more like beehaw, she would still be able to interact with the federated community at large, but be better shielded. If someone tried to throw slurs at her from an instance with a lower standard, she wouldn’t see it at all, and the person delivering the slurs likely wouldn’t even realize it.
Correct me if I’m wrong but it’s my understanding that defederation is in fact bidirectional. lemmy.world can’t see new posts from beehaw after the announcement.
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I personally believe Lemmy/kbin can only thrive if there is a free flow of content between different instances
I personally disagree. There will be entirely private instances, there will be instances with highly restricted federation. There will be instances that federate with most and there will be instances that federate without restriction. That’s the beauty of the model and that’s why kbin and lemmy with thrive.
A little bit late to the party here. What is the reason why lemmygrad.ml is blocked?
Very tanky ultra left pro Russia, pro China, anti everyone else part of Fediverse.
Check them out if you like but they only talk shit about the West and NATO. Put another way, you are not missing much by avoiding them.
They also support North Korea!
So far we have only blocked lemmygrad.ml, and right now we have no plans to block anyone else.
Why is lemmygrad blocked, but not exploding heads?
Because lemmygrad is a tankie hellhole. They support all kinds of authoritarian nonsense.
That doesn’t answer the question.
Sorry I didn’t know what exploding heads was when I commented. That’s also an authoritarian hellhole, and should also be blocked.
Is there a place to see what’s blocked, and why?
Thanks for that. I tried to subscribe to some German communities on Feddit just to find out that they blocked our instance on their end. Fuck them I guess, I’m staying here.
I very much appreciate this philosophy. It looks like this is the right instance for me :)
thank you for not being a drama queen and railroading this whole thing by leveraging the small amount of power you have to make some bullshit point about your social views.
Nice to see admins with a level head
Why did lemmygrad get blocked?
It’s full of tankies (fascists who like the color red).
Does that mean exploding heads will get defederated?
You really have bo idea what you’re talking about, do you… have you even visited the communities in lemmygrad?
Removed by mod
Have ever visited lemmygrad? Do you have an account there? Why do their views differ so much than the ones from the western word? Aren’t westerners (the US in particular) the ones that basically forcefully made other countries capitalist, by means of war in most cases, and called that liberation of the people? And did they not exploit those countries natural resources by calling that free capital market?
They may have extremist views, but they’re not faschists, I can tell you that much. And not all of them have extremist views, I’ve lead some prety decent conversations there.
Most people don’t like extremist views. Its jarring for a lot of people when they see people praising dictators and regimes that killed millions of people.
It’s easy to point a finger when history says that only 1 person is responsible for this or that… the same could be said about the US or any other country that did atrocities over a larger time period but the one ruled by 1 president… yet those people are heroes, but this 1 particular person in history is really really bad.
Come on, wake up, everyone did their part in destruction around the globe, yet some are considered heroes, others villans.
I know but growing up in the west you pretty much by default support democracy so I dont like seeing people who are supporting people like stalin, Mao, Xi. I also dont like seeing people supporting American imperialism but thats more ingrained in my cultural sphere.
I honestly don’t see anything of value being lost. They can wall off into their own echochamber and the rest of us can communicate freely.
This is not a matter of different point of view but a moderation one, since they are outnumbered for now with flow of new people and bad actors.
I don’t think they did it happily
But we’re not concerned since this instance is smaller and probably not as much targeted
This is not a matter of different point of view but a moderation one, since they are outnumbered for now with flow of new people and bad actors.
I don’t agree. They appear to have a lot more moderators than kbin.social or lemmy.world. They didn’t have any higher number of trolls. What they want is to remove more comments. Comments which they think offend people. This is all about a point of view. They want a safe space. An echo chamber. They want to be protected from diversity.
which, by your argument, is also fine. let them be the safe space, and whoever doesn’t want that, well just create an alt account literally anywhere else. it’s not worth fussing over imho.
Beehaw has been pretty darn open about exactly why and under what circumstances they defederated. Try to be a little more charitable here. They’re in open communication with the mods of both lemmy.world and sh.itjust.works as of now, and are trying to start development on more nuanced moderation tools. As far as I know, the intent is to refederate once things get figured out.
