Cross posting on a few ttrpg communities, hopefully that is alright!
BLUF: Any recommendations for session zero, game systems to run, and co-dming with teens?
As a bit of background:
I used to run Hero Kids games with my wife back when the kids were 8, 6, and 4. They enjoyed them and we occasionally run other games with them now, but the younger ones aren’t as interested in them anymore, so getting them in has been more difficult. All of them have differing levels of ability to sit through a game, and keeping combat turns quick has been a key focus.
My eldest is now 12, and is interested in playing more TTRPGs and learning to DM her own games. She’s been playing D&D 5e weekly with a group of teens at a FLGS, but she’s probably one of the youngest ones there. She’s also neurodivergent, as are several others in that group. So there’s often been struggles with things not being done “the right way” as well as attention spans growing short and wandering. The gaming group has already grown too large and unruly and been split once, so now it’s two different games meeting every other week each instead of one game meeting every week.
The owners of the FLGS have expressed interest in having other people help run games for teens there, and I’m interested in helping, but I’m less fond of D&D 5e myself, especially for teens with short attention spans. So my idea currently is to come up with a “Survey of TTRPGs” and just run one shots in multiple systems, and end with offering some games where interested teens can run a one shot and I’d just serve as co-dm with them. I’d be available to help plan, as well as to help run the game day of.
My thought process here is that experiencing several different systems would help expand their experience of play styles, and would hopefully make it easier for them to accept players at their table having different preferred play styles. The experience would also hopefully illustrate different situations and scenarios in play, and make it easier to accept new ideas at the table. To me, the ideal help for the ongoing situation is to have a group of teens willing and interested to run games for other teens, and my daughter is interested in being one of those teens but isn’t comfortable doing so yet.
I want to start by coming up with a session zero that is geared for teens, and then do some very rules lite systems for the first few weeks. The goal being to introduce some role playing concepts and decision making options without a lot of rules involved up front, then work to other systems that have additional rules as time goes on. I imagine we’d start with something like Heroic Tales, work in Tiny D6 based games, look at some OSR type stuff, check out some PbtA, and end on D&D 5e and/or Pathfinder 2e. When we make it to the point of offering co-dm sessions, the kids could pick anything we’d run already as the base system.
My personal struggle is that I enjoy a lot of systems, and am interested in a lot more that I haven’t gotten to play yet. So I’ve been trying to work several of those into this idea. I tried to work out a list of systems, and eventually had 13 one shots I was going to try and run, with multiple options in systems at basically every one of them (and multiple genres to boot), and I feel like it is probably just a bit too ambitious, and want to pare it back further.
So does anyone have:
- Any tips to offer for running games for teens (current group is ages 12-17),
- Suggestions for systems that have quick combat turns to help maintain the interest of short attention spans,
- Extra tips for Session Zeros that come up more often with teens than adults
Good questions!
I would personally do a very narrative and/or rules-light system. Leaning into an existing well-established genre will give everyone very predictable beats to embrace and conventions to follow.
With that in mind I’d recommend:
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Knave. Originally created for grade school kids to roleplay with. It’s fun, easy, mechanically light, but still offers a lot of OSR fun. Pair it with a Trilemma adventure for a lot of mileage.
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Fiasco. GM-less, clearly embracing a movie genre, chaotic and fun and over the top. It’s modern but don’t let that stop you!
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Something Powered by the Apocalypse. Doing narrative actions to activate moves makes a lot of intuitive sense and does not require a ton of deep system knowledge or precise positioning on a mini board.
I would definitely stay away from 5E or the other big book systems. There’s just too much crunch to be approachable in my opinion. But I also feel that way after decades of roleplaying, so I might be biased!
Agreed. During Covid I was asked to do something like this a couple of times and I created a very light system and a murder mystery “campaign” that kids could just pick up and play immediately with no prior setup or experience, and involving almost no combat. It turned out to be a really big hit the first time which is why I was asked back to do it again a second time.
Ooh, speaking of murder mysteries — Alice is Missing is a great one, and played primarily via text which makes it even easier for the Youths to interface with, what with all their texting and so on.
I saw the Kickstarter for Knave 2nd edition and backed that, but I think that is a ways out yet. I don’t have the 1st edition yet though. I didn’t realize it was created with grade school kids in mind, that’s pretty sweet! It was certainly already a contender, but I didn’t realize how big of a heavy hitter it was likely to be here.
I’ve heard of Fiasco, and am interested in it, but I hadn’t seen any way of increasing the player counts and wasn’t sure how well it handled 6+ people, since it describes itself as only up to 5. That was the biggest reason I haven’t gotten it yet, my gaming group is 6 people, and my family is 6 people now as well. Do you have experience with it, and are there ways to make it work with additional people?
I was definitely planning on something PbtA. I’ve already got Avatar: Legends, Masks, Dungeon World, and Monster of the Week. And I either already have them in print or I’m waiting on a delivery or a Kickstarter to get them in. I’ve not gotten to actually play one yet, but I know several people itching to try Avatar so I’m just waiting on the opportunity there.
My idea for an initial system was Heroic Tales which is quite rules lite at three pages for the entire system, including generators, and play tips! The PDF hits six pages via a cover page and two pages of blank character sheets… I’ve been having a lot of fun playing it online the last several months.
Before discovering Heroic Tales my favorite system had rapidly become the TinyD6 line from Gallant Knight Games and I still enjoy playing it quite a bit, and was planning on making it one of the offerings as well. It has a section on doing ranges for combats in theater of the mind that I have used with several groups and enjoyed. It also has quite a bit of different genres to play with as options and I’ve gotten most of them in print by now.
I was also considering throwing in a level zero funnel from Dungeon Crawl Classics, in part because the dice chain seems like a really neat concept, and the spell tables seem like a delightful way of handling getting more powerful as a mage over time.
I also have found I very much prefer less crunch in my games, but I know a lot of the teens hear “D&D” and want to actually play that as well. So I figure I’ll include it, but way at the end after they’ve gotten to try lots of other things. Hopefully I can help them learn many of the main mechanics and decision making skills before then so that all the rules don’t bog everything down too much!
Have you much experience playing with teens? Any things of note to make sure to mention we’ll be avoiding in a Session Zero? I really only have experience with my 12 year old in that regard, and am only just now getting to spend time around more teens due to involvement with her.
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Ok first, a rules light system. You could go with Fate and dro her off in what is probably the most anti D&D system there is, but that is probably to much. It really does take time to get used to fate. Another option this is good but very close to D&D is 13th age. Fantasy age is another D&D like system that uses 3d6, and it has high fantasy and modern settings.
Now a different approach would be to go with something that is built for a very different setting. There are many games from third eye game. They have the pip system that is made for kids and has lots of settings for it. You are right that more games will give her help running better games.
Another tip is prebuilt characters. It makes it faster for new players to use them and as a gm she would then know what all the party can do. One shots are you friends here. Some people won’t like playing bugs or mermaids for a long campaign.
Carin and Mausritter are good rules light systems with super fast combat. The added benefit is that they are free. They are both based on Into the Odd. You can make a character in five minutes and understand the rules in ten.
Also if you use The Estate box set you have a nice, episodic little campaign pre-built for Mausritter. It’s a small hex crawl with a bunch of pamphlet adventures scattered around them, complete with hooks to tie them all together.
Might be a good ongoing structure, especially if you have an inconsistent group, or intend to be swapping GMs periodically.
Also the two box sets (the main Mausritter box and the estate box sets) are super high quality.
I’m throwing my hat in for Quest, for something that still has the “vibe” of 5e (for lack of a better word) while being dead-simple at the table and very… chill? The digital edition is free. Highlights include:
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Characters don’t really get their own stats, they’re defined entirely by the character abilities their classes get, but those abilities manage to not feel like they restrict what other people can do.
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D20 resolution, “degrees of success” built in as an assumption.
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It really warms my twee hippie heart that the last paragraph in the book is a happily ever after with a lost loved one granted by a “wish locket”. If you ask it for anything else it’s a monkey’s paw, but it’ll grant a wish like that no questions asked. I’m not sure why it gets me so emotional but it does, bookending the rulebook with it is perfect.
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Hell yeah! Your daughter is a crunchy-gamer in the making! I can relate to her in the sense of her wanting to play things with a solid structure that she can study and master, to keep her engaged. I think that she will enjoy Savage Worlds.
If 5e is rules-heavy, then SWADE is a rules-medium system. The slowest part is making a character because the system is universal and there are a ton of options, but as a DM, you can curate the options for your players. Also, there are Savage Settings and one of them is “East Texas University.” Teens will be able to relate to the school setting but “rad-idfied”. They get to role play as university students who then solve mysteries, join fraternities, hunt monsters, drive and modify badass combat cars, etc.
Also, maybe it’s time to introduce the kids to Cyberpunk RED. It’s not hard to learn or teach and the game itself is fairly lightweight.
Otherwise, for the smaller, Index Card RPG or EZD6 can work. Both are super streamlined and they retain that D&D feeling. Also, games using the LUMEN system can give the kids a nice dopamine rush. The creator basically states that his system is meant to make players feel like Overwatch or Diablo characters. In contrast with 5e, in which players often hoard spells and powers for the “right event”, LUMEN makes everyone use their spells and special skills all the time in fast paced combat that resolves super quick. Check out ”Nova" and “Light”.
And personally I don’t like them, but you can also show them the FATE and Ironsworn/Starforged systems to broaden their horizons and make them experience a different perspective which they might love.
Oh and tips to keep them engaged, well you need to read the room and identify which parts of the game they enjoy the most and the least, and the reason behind that.
Give them what they want and make all of them participate. With adults it also happens, but it’s way more prominent with kids: some will talk much more than the rest, and some will be ashamed or have shyness to let themselves go. You need to kindly guide the shy ones into the spotlight and reward them for participating.
Also, when you narrate the places and events, ask them to complete your idea. For example: “As the group follow the trails, a vendor interjects them and tries to sell them micro-hamburgers, but Player #4 doesn’t loose focus and realizes that just around the corner, drenched in the glow of the neon lights from the skyscrapers, is the vehicle that Mr. Jenkins gifted to the group… What does this vehicle looks like, Player #4?” Do this every now and then for places, NPC descriptions, the smells and sounds, etc. Make them have as much agency as possible in the world building, instead of just having them react to your dice checks.
I used o play with the kids I teach, ages 9-11. We would play one page 1d6 systems made for one shots by Grant Howitt. https://gshowitt.itch.io/ . The games are always excellent and very simple, they are ideal for 1st time dms. You can graduate to more concept stuff like roll for shoes, we are champion or everyone is john
Starting from age 12-13 you could go for a PbtA game.
at that age, if they are interested, even a d20 can work.If you are worried about levels of violence go for wander home. Masks hits home for teens, as does monster hearts, because they specifically talk about coming of age and stuff
Also, I am incapable of posting anything without recommending 13th Age so here goes: choose this as the first d20 system. It is similar enough to dnd to feel like another edition of it, but with way less fiddly rules and great improve based narrative tools that excellently tie in players into world building and decision making at the story level. It is, imo, strictly better than the other two d20 games you mentioned, because it is more stroy driven and less war game-y. Also very short and engaging combat!
It’s a PbtA players dnd and I love it.
