From my previous comment, it looks like NHTSA is moving faster than I predicted. We’re now at step 1, with this Advance Notice of Proposed Rulemaking.
(edit: I jumped the gun, we’re still at step ‘0’ on my original list)
Most of this notice seems to be a report on why ‘impaired driving’ is bad. I see alcohol, cannabis, mobile phone use, drowsiness…etc.
Due to technology immaturity and a lack of testing protocols, drugged driving is not being considered in this advance notice of proposed rulemaking.
Makes sense.
There is no clear and consistent engineering or industry definition of ‘‘impairment.’’
Yep, another unclear request by Congress.
NHTSA believes that Congress did not intend to limit NHTSA’s efforts under BIL to alcohol impairment.
Okay, that’s fair.
Camera-based-systems, however, are increasingly feasible and common in vehicles.
Uh-oh…
The Safety Act also contains a ‘‘make inoperative’’ provision, which prohibits certain entities from knowingly modifying or deactivating any part of a device or element of design installed in or on a motor vehicle in compliance with an applicable FMVSS. Those entities include vehicle manufacturers, distributors, dealers, rental companies, and repair businesses. Notably, the make inoperative prohibition does not apply to individual vehicle owners. While NHTSA encourages individual vehicle owners not to degrade the safety of their vehicles or equipment by removing, modifying, or deactivating a safety system, the Safety Act does not prohibit them from doing so. This creates a potential source of issues for solutions that lack consumer acceptance, since individual owners would not be prohibited by Federal law from removing or modifying those systems (i.e., using defeat mechanisms).
Note that “make inoperative” does not apply to a “kill switch” in this case. NHTSA uses the term to mean “disabling required safety devices”. For example, as an individual vehicle owner, it’s perfectly legal for you to remove the seatbelts from your car, despite Federal requirements. But it’s illegal for the entities listed above to do it. (This example doesn’t extend to state regulations. It’s legal for you to remove your seatbelts, but may still be illegal to drive a car without them.)
There’s a short ‘discussion’ here regarding how to passively detect impaired driving, noting the difficulties of creating such a system. Followed by a note that basically says if they can’t do it within 10 years, NHTSA can give up and not do it, as stated in the Infrastructure law.
There’s a long section on how to detect various types of impairment, current methods of preventing impaired driving, etc. An interesting section about detecting blood-alcohol level using infrared sensors embedded in the steering wheel. Body posture sensors can be used to detect driver distraction.
This is followed by a brief overview of the technologies NHTSA is considering:
Camera-Based Driver Monitoring Sensors
Hands-On-Wheel Sensors
Lane Departure and Steering Sensors
Speed/Braking Sensors
Time-Based Sensors
Physiological Sensors
On page 850 (21 of the PDF), NHTSA asks for feedback to several questions. There are a few pages of relevant issues, so I won’t cover them here. If you wish, you can go here to leave a comment. Please don’t leave irrelevant garbage like “I oppose this on the grounds of my Constitutional rights…” While applicable in this situation, it’s irrelevant to NHTSA, and commenting like that will just waste everybody’s time. There’s a section on page 855 (26 of the PDF) about Privacy and Security.
That’s that. Let me know I can answer any of your questions. I’ll try to come back to this post throughout the day and see what’s happening. But, I do not work for NHTSA, so can’t remark on agency thought process.
Thanks for looking through all of this. If I’m understanding right, it seems like Congress is asking NHTSA to do a task that is probably not possible, but they are required to at least go through the motions to try?
It seems like they just told nhtsa to use technology to fix drunk driving so they can wash their hands of the situation and claim they tried to do something, but nhtsa couldn’t figure it out. Why didn’t they tell the NIH to eliminate the cancer while they were at it.
I do believe the technology to detect BAC is too erroneous to inflict on innocent drivers, and technology that could detect impairment through driving characteristics, while possible for individual drivers could never work on a population level. There’s going to be a lot of overlap between impaired drivers and just naturally bad drivers.
Exactly. There’s too much possibility of false positives in most of these technologies to be safe. There’s a section where NHTSA covers how they should handle disabling a vehicle in a dangerous situation. For example, if I’m in the middle of the woods camping and drinking, should I be able to drive my car to escape a forest fire?
The problem, of course, being that if an emergency override of any kind exists for such situations- then that override can always be used, making the restrictions null and void. which means all systems were simply added cost and maintenance headaches passed onto the consumer for zero net benefit.
Sure maybe they could make an always online system like onStar that would let you request an override to be reviewed by a person… but that’s fucking hilarious to think any manufacturer is going to take on that cost, they’d make it a mandatory subscription for some stupid AI override bot, and that is an even bigger pile of fucking nope.
I think this whole kill switch thing is a terrible idea, but if it must happen somehow then an override that logs when it is used might be a bare minimum.
Still think it’s awful, just the least awful.
Right, so then who monitors the logs? Are there punishments for excessively bypassing safety features? Because the goal of these features is to stop a crash from happening. If you can bypass them at all, a log entry isn’t going to help the crash victims. Which means the system must inherently be extremely totalitarian and strict if it is to succeed in its stated goal, which is not something you will get most drivers to sign on to.
To be clear I am agreeing that the entire kill switch idea is poorly conceived and absolute garbage (nothing new from congress there). I’m just enumerating the problems with allowing any sort of reasonable exceptions to an inherently unreasonable idea.
if that’s the stated goal, instead of justifying ever more surveillance
Narrator: “It was, in fact, used to justify more surveillance.”
Presumably it’d be monitored by law enforcement. I’m describing this as a system that would allow the totalitarian “you don’t actually own your own things any more” thing that the proponents of this law are champing eagerly at the bit to implement while avoiding the “you need to escape a wildfire immediately but the car thinks you’re a little too eager on the gas pedal” scenario. Not as a system that I would in any way like or support.
Elsewhere in the thread someone mentioned that the proposed rules wouldn’t prevent individuals from disabling this kill switch entirely, much like it’s technically legal for an individual to remove the seatbelts or airbags or whatever from their own car. I would grudgingly accept a law like that as the absolute worst thing that I would actually be willing to accept, provided the kill switch actually was disableable and not locked behind stuff that would blow up the car if you took it out.
It might work for a single driver comparing their driving to previously stored sessions. But how does it handle switching drivers? It would have to create and manage profiles on each and every person that drives the vehicle.
Yeah, you could detect a difference between drunk me and sober me, but where does sleepy me fit in? It’s wrong, but not exactly illegal to drive while very tired.
Plus, most laws about operating a vehicle only apply when the vehicle is on public roads.
If you are tired enough to impair your driving, then yes it will be illegal in most jurisdictions.