Yeah and I HATE it. I drove my cousins Tesla when it first came out, way before musk started publicly acting like the douchebro he is and before there was really a Tesla fanboy club with a bunch of wannabes slobbing musks knob online.
I think I drove it in the neighborhood for like five minutes, stopped and parked the car and asked my cousin to drive it back. Hating it is an understatement.
Last year all the valets and I agreed we won’t be parking Tesla’s because of how much we hate them, but management overruled us this year.
I’ve been driving for 20 years. I shouldn’t need a lesson from a Tesla owner on how to drive their car. The fact that I do shows how fucking dangerous they are. They’re not designed by people who drive and it’s so fucking obvious that the computer nerds who design them get chauffeured everywhere by Ubers.
Until I lived here I wouldve assumed that last line about Ubers was an exaggeration but…yeah, a huge portion of the bay area strategic techbro reserve actually can’t legally drive. Then once they turn 28 and move to the burbs they lost a full decade of learning and they shift from not legally allowed to just “shouldn’t”.
Yeah I understand why people don’t get their licenses living in cities there’s really no reason. But ability and semi frequency of driving a car should be a prerequisite for being hired to design one.
Yep. Obvs there’s a lot more than goes into a car than just the UI but…I don’t trust user experience engineers. Some of them gave us the Mac os. Other gave us windows 11. Others gave us gnome. None of them should be allowed near the UI for a 2-ton metal brick on wheels. “But what if we compressed all of the icons in one to get a ‘clean’ design and then had a 2 second fly-out animation to show you what they all are”
Yeah they absolutely do not need to be making the decisions. Car designers should be designing cars not UI designers or software engineers.
Designs have been relatively standardized for decades for safety. every other car out there I haven’t needed to talk to the owner to find out how to drive it, I just drove it. But teslas I’ve had to ask…
That being said I once spent a solid 10 minutes inside an electric Porsche trying to figure out how to turn it on… the power button is to the left of the steering wheel in the strangest spot. Then there’s the newer cars with their weird toggles and what not but it doesn’t take too long to figure out how to shift.
Back before about 1920, there weren’t standard interfaces in cars. Pedal arrangements were arbitrary, there were levers to control things like spark advance, stuck wherever the manufacturer liked, and secondary controls were even more random than they are now. There’s no reason to go back to those days.
Using a tablet to control a moving car is a dangerously stupid move that regulators should never have allowed. It’s even worse than the notoriously shit BMW Tiptronic modal controller of cursed memory.
Hard disagree on this one. The regenerative braking has a learning curve yes, but the pros outweigh the cons imo. When you brake (in a traditional car or an EV), you are wearing out yor brake pads, turning friction into heat. Done right, renerative braking means almost all energy is captured back, and even lower maintenance by not bothering the brake pad.
It takes getting used to, you hate it at first, which is why tesla has an option to disable it, but there is a reason why most people who own Teslas use it, and other EVs are getting it as well.
Regenerative braking is good thing, yes .But implementing it as one pedal driving is terrible. Other OEMs like Ford or VW blend regenerative braking into the brake pedal of their EVs such that it feels exactly like a normal car. The friction pads are there for either emergency braking or for bringing the car to a final stop after slowing down.
I drive my ID.4 exclusively in normal drive mode. I tried one pedal driving and hated it. I don’t understand the hype. To each their own. My point was that regenerative braking doesn’t depend on one pedal driving.
I haven’t driven the id.4, but our car has a visual indicator that shows the percentage of regenerative braking efficiency achieved when you at coming to a stop. Hitting 100% is significantly easier in my experience with my test sample of 1 vehicle using the single pedal option, like everything though, I’m sure it’s not the same across the board.
The complaint isn’t that regeneration is bad, because that’s been part of any battery vehicle since the first Prius in 1997. The complaint is that while Toyota solved this problem before much of Lemmy’s userbase was born, only Elon decided to make the car behave fucking weird.
Lot of assumptions in this thread about how terrible one pedal driving must be. No, you can just set the car to coast like normal if you want. There’s still a brake pedal of you need to slam the brakes.
One pedal driving takes maybe an hour to get used to, but once you learn it you won’t want to go back. There’s a level of regen that can be adjusted, and you quickly learn how fast that is. I generally have my foot set at a certain level to maintain a speed and if I need to stop at some lights I’ve gotten very used to when I need to lift my foot up for the regen to stop me at the right spot.
Regen breaking. My guess they can’t bake it into the brake pedal because some rules for what a break pedal is allowed to do or just bad design. Both very possible.
Bad design. Plenty of EVs have their brake pedal apply a mixture of regen and friction braking, with the actual proportions dependent on factors like how quickly you hit the brake (soft braking is entirely regen, slamming the brakes apples almost entirely actual brakes in my experience), or how much charge is in the battery (you can’t safely pump power from regen into a nearly full battery).
Plenty of them also let you control how much passive regen happens when you lift the pedal, with the default on mine at least feeling very similar to the slowing you get when lifting off the gas with an automatic transmission. It’s adjustable from none at all to moderate braking force, and when I turn it up lifting my foot from the gas illuminates my brake lights.
My Ford PHEV does regenerative braking through the brake pedal. The brake pads only engage if you press hard enough that the braking demand is higher than the slowing caused by regenerative braking. It will show you how well you’re doing with a gauge to show how much of your regen-braking force you’re using, and if it never engages the brake pads until you’re already stopped (for the brake hold function) it tells you 100% of the braking energy went into the battery. Pretty cool.
Any decent car in the tesla price bracket has configurable regen from all the way off to progressively more regen all thr way up to one pedal driving that will apply the brakes for you to come to a complete stop without touching thr pedal.
Vast majority of these it’s switched between the modes using the paddle shift. If you can understand changing gears on a modern ice auto using the paddles, then it’s not beyond the average driver to quickly get to grips with using it for regen.
I’d you feather the throttle as you start to slow down you can moderate the amount of regen dynamically without having to change modes. However that requires more skill than the average driver seem capable of.
Cheaper evs tend to have off, on, and may be one pedal driving modes, but they have to cut things to be cheaper as with all cars.
I get between a fifth and a quarter back of my energy consumption from using regen. Learning how to use it is essential for good economy, and it makes you safer as you plan ahead more for where you want to slow down. The least safest way to drive is emergency braking 10m before a stop sign as your default driving style
If you can understand changing gears on a modern ice auto using the paddles, then it’s not beyond the average driver to quickly get to grips with using it for regen.
Teslas have a CVT. No paddles.
And I’d like to know why one-pedal regenerative braking would be any more economical than two-pedal.
Incidentally, hybrid cars have had two-pedal regen braking since 2000 (and before that in Japan-- the Prius came out there in '97).
Tesla have a CVT gearbox? Like actual gearbox that ice cars have? First, I’ve ever heard of them having a proper gearbox. First production ev I heard of with an actual gearbox is the taycan, that has a two speed, fully auto gearbox. Nit aware of any others with an actual gearbox.
You know how regen works right? And that the brake pedal on modern evs don’t engage regen as fully as they are engaging the brakes as that’s what that pedal is for. Engage the brakes and you aren’t going to get anywhere near the energy back from regen as a ton of energy is being wasted by friction and thus heat of the brake pads.
I’ve owned a lexis 400h, i like the idea of them, but cvts are garbage to drive, even in hybrids. They also completely unsuitable for evs due to their wide torque band, they work best for ice engines have have narrow torque bands as the entire function of a cvt is to adjust to a narrow rev range to optimise that narrow torque band.
If you wanna coast just use cruise control. Otherwise you have to keep the “gas” slightly pressed to maintain speed. It’s way better but the very real downside is that you forget how to drive ice cars.
Braking by letting off the gas? So you can’t coast, it’s either go or stop?
Yeah and I HATE it. I drove my cousins Tesla when it first came out, way before musk started publicly acting like the douchebro he is and before there was really a Tesla fanboy club with a bunch of wannabes slobbing musks knob online.
I think I drove it in the neighborhood for like five minutes, stopped and parked the car and asked my cousin to drive it back. Hating it is an understatement.
Last year all the valets and I agreed we won’t be parking Tesla’s because of how much we hate them, but management overruled us this year.
I’ve been driving for 20 years. I shouldn’t need a lesson from a Tesla owner on how to drive their car. The fact that I do shows how fucking dangerous they are. They’re not designed by people who drive and it’s so fucking obvious that the computer nerds who design them get chauffeured everywhere by Ubers.
Until I lived here I wouldve assumed that last line about Ubers was an exaggeration but…yeah, a huge portion of the bay area strategic techbro reserve actually can’t legally drive. Then once they turn 28 and move to the burbs they lost a full decade of learning and they shift from not legally allowed to just “shouldn’t”.
Yeah I understand why people don’t get their licenses living in cities there’s really no reason. But ability and semi frequency of driving a car should be a prerequisite for being hired to design one.
Yep. Obvs there’s a lot more than goes into a car than just the UI but…I don’t trust user experience engineers. Some of them gave us the Mac os. Other gave us windows 11. Others gave us gnome. None of them should be allowed near the UI for a 2-ton metal brick on wheels. “But what if we compressed all of the icons in one to get a ‘clean’ design and then had a 2 second fly-out animation to show you what they all are”
Yeah they absolutely do not need to be making the decisions. Car designers should be designing cars not UI designers or software engineers.
Designs have been relatively standardized for decades for safety. every other car out there I haven’t needed to talk to the owner to find out how to drive it, I just drove it. But teslas I’ve had to ask…
That being said I once spent a solid 10 minutes inside an electric Porsche trying to figure out how to turn it on… the power button is to the left of the steering wheel in the strangest spot. Then there’s the newer cars with their weird toggles and what not but it doesn’t take too long to figure out how to shift.
Back before about 1920, there weren’t standard interfaces in cars. Pedal arrangements were arbitrary, there were levers to control things like spark advance, stuck wherever the manufacturer liked, and secondary controls were even more random than they are now. There’s no reason to go back to those days.
Using a tablet to control a moving car is a dangerously stupid move that regulators should never have allowed. It’s even worse than the notoriously shit BMW Tiptronic modal controller of cursed memory.
At least before 1920 there was only a hundred drivers on the road in the whole country!
(Exaggeration but I hope you get the point haha)
I fucking hate the tablets!
Hard disagree on this one. The regenerative braking has a learning curve yes, but the pros outweigh the cons imo. When you brake (in a traditional car or an EV), you are wearing out yor brake pads, turning friction into heat. Done right, renerative braking means almost all energy is captured back, and even lower maintenance by not bothering the brake pad.
It takes getting used to, you hate it at first, which is why tesla has an option to disable it, but there is a reason why most people who own Teslas use it, and other EVs are getting it as well.
Regenerative braking is good thing, yes .But implementing it as one pedal driving is terrible. Other OEMs like Ford or VW blend regenerative braking into the brake pedal of their EVs such that it feels exactly like a normal car. The friction pads are there for either emergency braking or for bringing the car to a final stop after slowing down.
I drive exclusively in 1-pedal. It’s a pretty quick transition.
Probably easiest to make an analogy to the transition to analog sticks for gaming.
It was a bit difficult but, once you get the nuance, it’s pretty game changing.
I drive my ID.4 exclusively in normal drive mode. I tried one pedal driving and hated it. I don’t understand the hype. To each their own. My point was that regenerative braking doesn’t depend on one pedal driving.
I haven’t driven the id.4, but our car has a visual indicator that shows the percentage of regenerative braking efficiency achieved when you at coming to a stop. Hitting 100% is significantly easier in my experience with my test sample of 1 vehicle using the single pedal option, like everything though, I’m sure it’s not the same across the board.
Toyota’s been doing that for over 25 years in its hybrids.
It’s an excellent, highly reliable system.
The complaint isn’t that regeneration is bad, because that’s been part of any battery vehicle since the first Prius in 1997. The complaint is that while Toyota solved this problem before much of Lemmy’s userbase was born, only Elon decided to make the car behave fucking weird.
It’s like engine braking in an ICE-powered car in terms of its effect on the car’s dynamics.
Yeah, it’s because they go with the default.
Lot of assumptions in this thread about how terrible one pedal driving must be. No, you can just set the car to coast like normal if you want. There’s still a brake pedal of you need to slam the brakes. One pedal driving takes maybe an hour to get used to, but once you learn it you won’t want to go back. There’s a level of regen that can be adjusted, and you quickly learn how fast that is. I generally have my foot set at a certain level to maintain a speed and if I need to stop at some lights I’ve gotten very used to when I need to lift my foot up for the regen to stop me at the right spot.
Regen breaking. My guess they can’t bake it into the brake pedal because some rules for what a break pedal is allowed to do or just bad design. Both very possible.
Bad design. Plenty of EVs have their brake pedal apply a mixture of regen and friction braking, with the actual proportions dependent on factors like how quickly you hit the brake (soft braking is entirely regen, slamming the brakes apples almost entirely actual brakes in my experience), or how much charge is in the battery (you can’t safely pump power from regen into a nearly full battery).
Plenty of them also let you control how much passive regen happens when you lift the pedal, with the default on mine at least feeling very similar to the slowing you get when lifting off the gas with an automatic transmission. It’s adjustable from none at all to moderate braking force, and when I turn it up lifting my foot from the gas illuminates my brake lights.
My Ford PHEV does regenerative braking through the brake pedal. The brake pads only engage if you press hard enough that the braking demand is higher than the slowing caused by regenerative braking. It will show you how well you’re doing with a gauge to show how much of your regen-braking force you’re using, and if it never engages the brake pads until you’re already stopped (for the brake hold function) it tells you 100% of the braking energy went into the battery. Pretty cool.
Any decent car in the tesla price bracket has configurable regen from all the way off to progressively more regen all thr way up to one pedal driving that will apply the brakes for you to come to a complete stop without touching thr pedal.
Vast majority of these it’s switched between the modes using the paddle shift. If you can understand changing gears on a modern ice auto using the paddles, then it’s not beyond the average driver to quickly get to grips with using it for regen.
I’d you feather the throttle as you start to slow down you can moderate the amount of regen dynamically without having to change modes. However that requires more skill than the average driver seem capable of.
Cheaper evs tend to have off, on, and may be one pedal driving modes, but they have to cut things to be cheaper as with all cars.
I get between a fifth and a quarter back of my energy consumption from using regen. Learning how to use it is essential for good economy, and it makes you safer as you plan ahead more for where you want to slow down. The least safest way to drive is emergency braking 10m before a stop sign as your default driving style
Teslas have a CVT. No paddles.
And I’d like to know why one-pedal regenerative braking would be any more economical than two-pedal.
Incidentally, hybrid cars have had two-pedal regen braking since 2000 (and before that in Japan-- the Prius came out there in '97).
Tesla have a CVT gearbox? Like actual gearbox that ice cars have? First, I’ve ever heard of them having a proper gearbox. First production ev I heard of with an actual gearbox is the taycan, that has a two speed, fully auto gearbox. Nit aware of any others with an actual gearbox.
You know how regen works right? And that the brake pedal on modern evs don’t engage regen as fully as they are engaging the brakes as that’s what that pedal is for. Engage the brakes and you aren’t going to get anywhere near the energy back from regen as a ton of energy is being wasted by friction and thus heat of the brake pads.
I’ve owned a lexis 400h, i like the idea of them, but cvts are garbage to drive, even in hybrids. They also completely unsuitable for evs due to their wide torque band, they work best for ice engines have have narrow torque bands as the entire function of a cvt is to adjust to a narrow rev range to optimise that narrow torque band.
If you wanna coast just use cruise control. Otherwise you have to keep the “gas” slightly pressed to maintain speed. It’s way better but the very real downside is that you forget how to drive ice cars.
Couldn’t agree more.