the Logitech F710 is a solid controller to get if you’re on a tight budget, but perhaps not exactly the type of equipment you want to stake your life on. […] Reviewers on sites like Amazon frequently mention issues with the wireless device’s connection.
The reporter, who followed an expedition of the Titan from the launch ship, wrote that “it seems like this submersible has elements of MacGyver jerry-riggedness.”
I keep seeing this headline and it’s a bit misleading to imply that its not a functional way to control that type of vehicle, even the American military has been known to use them.
The purpose for the control method was to have something to have a go when it was safe, they had several on hand in the off chance something happened to it.
These controllers are a product of decades of functional advancements, them being intuitive to use doesn’t mean that they are not efficient and functional.
I saw a video of this submersible. The view was through a TV. Imagine going to the bottom of the damned ocean to look at the Titanic on a TV.
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They could afford to pay $250k for a vacation, and they voluntarily rode this deathtrap?!
Proof positive that being rich doesn’t make you smart.
What weirded me out was it was being cast as a joint exploration effort when one of the members was charging the others. Would seem like a total grift, given the cost-cutting steps, if not for the owner/‘designer’ putting their own life on the line too.
Such deep sea submersibles are inherently a bit of an experimental industry, but even a cursory scan of opinions from others in that community seems to suggest it’s seen as extremely not-kosher to put others’ lives on the line with your experimental craft. Dude just seems to have been a bit nutty, and not altogether considerate enough of his own wellbeing or others’.
Some journalists did a story on this thing a while ago and it got lost for about 5 hours. During this time one of the reporters asked if it had some kind of beacon or transponder to locate it in situations like this. Their reply was something along the lines of “oh yeah that’s probably a good idea.” They never added it.
The lack of an emergency transponder is their biggest problem, followed shortly after by the inability to exit without outside help (which is literally what killed the Apollo 1 crew over 50 years ago). Next up, as pointed out in another thread, is that the sub is made of extremely brittle materials because that makes it lighter. Honestly, using off the shelf components for the controls doesn’t worry me nearly as much as those other issues.
The more I hear about this the more I’m shocked that this death trap was allowed to operate at all! It seems on the level of that bear suit guy, super dyi energy but with no real use case.
You want to be more shocked? The pilot was the CEO. He was willing to risk everyone’s lives and his own on this folly.
Also of interest via this blog is this statement from OceanGate about why their subs aren’t classed.
innovation often falls outside of the existing industry paradigm.
Bringing an outside entity up to speed on every innovation before it is put into real-world testing is anathema to rapid innovation.
If I wanted to can and sell hubris, I know where to source it from now.
“Move fast and break things” maybe doesn’t apply too well to submarine design.
That’s a hard agree. I work in a highly regulated industry and literally every new dude who joins the company says some version of “I don’t see why we can’t just…” and proceeds to describe some moderately to highly illegal shit. Every single one.
It’s wild. I think they honestly believe they’re the first person to think up these completely obvious and simple “solutions” to problems that require some degree of control and complexity.
The good news is, the hubris is already in a can. The bad news is, the can is several thousand feet under the North Atlantic.
I’ve used the F710 so that our family can couch co-op in the living room. For a Logitech controller it’s pretty solidly built and is of the era where Logitech peripherals were of good quality (unlike now, rip new G503s). I noticed that the wireless range kinda sucked if it didn’t have direct LOS to the receiver, but it has good rumble feedback and I like the smooth matte black underside material (feels good to the touch).
Man. That’s the control you give to your little brother because you don’t want him to get the good control all sticky.
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Personally I think the best case scenario is for it to have imploded and they all died instantly. Any other option seems like torture to me.
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There’s nothing wrong with using a game controller to steer the thing, I think the issue is more the lack of backup or failsafes.
Also, I’m very much a layperson in this field, but would it have not made sense to tether this thing to a ship on the surface? They could have kept in contact with the surface via the tether and had them reel the thing back in if there were problems with its propulsion or steering.
I saw the video of its interior. As someone who has claustrophobia, it’s absolute nightmare fuel. It’s a cylinder about 15 feet long and maybe 6 feet wide that you can’t even stand up in. It’s going to be very unpleasant for 5 people.
I agree completely with the controller, it doesn’t really matter what is used to steer the ship, just that it has fail-safes.
I don’t think resurfacing is the most important part here. Bathyscaphes are normally designed to jettison iron or steel ballasts attached by electromagnet, which allows them to surface due to their natural buoyancy. It’s impossible to say if that’s how the Titan works though, there isn’t a lot of detail available publicly about its design.
This is a really interesting video to get a take from an experienced submariner that I found really informative - https://youtu.be/4dka29FSZac
So is everyone else thinking they accidentally fucking plowed into the Titanic because a controller input got stuck?
Pretty unlikely. It’s easy to dunk on them for the controller, but they apparently carried backups, and it’s nowhere near the most concerning thing about their operations. It’s much more likely that their extremely brittle carbon-fiber hull fatigued (again), their homegrown acoustic fatigue detection system didn’t detect it (or it did and they ignored it), and the ship was crushed in a fraction of a second.
It seems like a really bad idea to use a wireless controller instead of a wired one. But I guess it shouldn’t matter as long as they have a backup wired controller in case the wireless one dies.
I think there’s more to it than that.
When working at industrial factories if I catch a glimpse of something run off a cheap consumer alternative to the standard industry equipment I immediately question everything. If they’re willing to skimp on that item, where else have they skimped?
https://www.engadget.com/2017-09-19-us-navy-high-tech-submarine-xbox-controller.html
Granted the evaluated this for periscope controls not steering but still. The leap isn’t huge and if you got some backup options that’s probably a pretty sensible path to take.
The x-box controller has a much higher build quality and uses xinput so there is far less likely to be software issues.
