I mean samatha/vipassana or whatever.

I encounter things relevant to atheism sometimes when I meditate.

  • DominatorX1@thelemmy.clubOP
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    1
    ·
    edit-2
    20 days ago

    I have no reason to believe…

    Why not just go with it? For conversation’s sake.

    Because the world is large and we are small and stranger things have happened.

    • FuglyDuck@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      1
      ·
      edit-2
      19 days ago

      Because why should I?

      People’s brains convincing them something stranger has happened isn’t actually all that strange.

      Neither is people just making shit up.

      Until I have a reason- tangible evidence- for a thing, I’m going to stay skeptical.

      Edit: To put this another way, if I indulge this, then I’d have to also indulge Mike Johnson’s insistence god told him he’s the second coming of Moses. Do you see the harm there?

        • FuglyDuck@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          19 days ago

          So, going back to Mike Johnson, he’s a US lawmaker- the speaker of the house, and 3rd in line for what used to be one of the most powerful and influential positions in the world.

          You don’t see the harm that he has voices in his head telling him he’s some kind of salvation figure (moses) liberating his people (evangelical christsians) from persecution (that isn’t happening.) making some very fucked up policies because of all the other shit the voices in his head are saying?

          I prefer my policies set on evidence, not the internal monologue of a madman.

          You’re welcome to believe what you want, but that doesn’t mean I have to indulge anything. And to be blunt, I have no more reason to believe spirits come and talk to you than Mike Johnson is sent by god. (even if I do wish he’d go wander the desert for a few decades.)

            • FuglyDuck@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              1
              ·
              19 days ago

              Without evidence, I have no more reason to believe some divine being is giving Mike Johnson orders than I do to believe spirits come talk to you while you meditate.

              I do have some reason to believe that, during prayer/meditation/whatever you’ve entered into a state of altered consciousness and your perceptions are not grounded in reality.

              For example, Michael Persinger’s “god helmet” experiments (in which they stimulated parts of the brain and induced euphoric visions of god,)

              or the work of Newberg and d’Aquili who monitored brain activity of people praying or meditating (franciscan nuns and tibetan buddhists, in particular,) showing altered brain activity.

              or Roland Griffiths who dosed people with psilocybin and achieved some of the same things, while doing similar neural imaging.

              or the studies of near-death experiments which have more or less conclusively demonstrated those were not “real” experiences. (they brought things into the surgical theater and later asked them to recount what they saw. Including some studies where that was the the whole point- with instructions to ‘turn around’)

              In short, if you have no tangible evidence of the spirit world (and you don’t,) then I have no reason to indulge it. anything that is claimed without evidence can be equally dismissed without evidence. and personally, I think anything claimed without evidence should be dismissed.

                • FuglyDuck@lemmy.world
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  ·
                  19 days ago

                  Which is not really evidence at all.

                  which brings us back to: you have no tangible evidence. every religion has people reporting broadly similar experiences.

                  For example, the Prince Philip Movement in Vanuatu. They report Prince Phillip appearing to them in dreams. Do you really think that Philip spoke to them in their dreams?

                  • DominatorX1@thelemmy.clubOP
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    arrow-up
                    1
                    ·
                    19 days ago

                    Actually, in a court of law, we ask for the testimony of witnesses all the time. So you got that wrong.

                    Maybe you mean that it isn’t the kind of evidence that you want.