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OP ignoring actual nazi allies or they don’t count since allies?
Like Italy or Japan or the French that sided with the nazis?
Please ignore the actual allies of the Nazis, we have propaganda to push!
French were occupied, and had active resistance, with minimal compliance from Occupation regime. Ukraine had volunteer SS divisions, with full throated ideological support of Naziism, ethnic cleansing massacres, and managing extermination camps.
Stalin’s invasion of Poland was done under alliance (complicity of action in exchange for their inaction) with UK/France to protect from imminent NAZI/German expansion east of Poland, which still came. If countries making treaties/agreements with Hitler makes them German allies, then the major western European powers were also German allies no matter how fundamentally opposed they and USSR (core German Nazi ideology was anti-communist, with the Jewish problem incidental to they supporting any ideology other than nazi fascist oppression, of which communism was the leading ideological solution at the time) were in opposing/disapproving of Hitler.
The path of USSR/west alliance against Germany was already set, and it is simply pure anti-Russia demonism to continue to revise history today to pretend Nazi Germany and USSR were great friends.
French did still have the Vichy collaborators
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vichy_France
And if things has gone slightly differently in the USA we could have become the nazis greatest allies.
Of course OP doesn’t actually care about anything of that just want to score internet points
if things has gone slightly differently in the USA we could have become the nazis greatest allies.
Tough call. Occupation became less popular with economic damage from tributes paid to Germany. “The conservatism” appeal always wanes when it is shown to be pure grift, and slogans shown to be empty criticisms of policy, even when the hate resonates people’s internalization of the criticisms.
Idk, there were those who liked what they were doing in Germany at the time. Scary to think what would have happened if business plot worked or the pro nazi parties had won in elections then.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jan/11/trump-fdr-roosevelt-coup-attempt-1930s
Good detail. I understand your “If USA has taken a different turn” and the specific reference that would have shaped great depression into a greater oligarchist takeover of the country including full cancel of great new deal, and then an ideology suited to allying with Hitler.
OTOH, the US liberation of France was first and only motivated to get to Berlin to stop USSR from winning everything in Europe, or at least entirety of Germany. It seems beyond rationality that US would commit troops to support Axis powers, and it was Germany that declared war on US after US declared war on Japan after Pearl Harbour, which wouldn’t have hapened if US provided moral cover for Germany policies. No matter how fascist US had become, about equal to French Vishy government maximum, isolationism would have prevailed, though perhaps less support for UK/France resistance would have helped Hitler on western front, with 0 impact on losses of the eastern front.
US fascist hegemony with very direct subjugation of NATO colonies today under Trump, is only possible, because the US fascist putch of 1933 failed, and the soft subjugation of post ww2 colonialism continued to Biden, to very extremist levels under Biden.
Oh damn it’s almost like the allies refused to sign a deal with the USSR https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/026569149602600303
Ffs there are so many real reasons to criticise the USSR but the allies (non USSR allies) fucking suuuuuucked in ww2. Completely happy to abandon Slavs and Jews to the Nazi war machine in order to shore up their own positions. Arrogant as all fuck about their position, and extremely willing to forgive Nazis and collaborators afterwards.
What the fuck was the USSR meant to actually do? Fight Germany alone selflessly?
What the fuck was the USSR meant to actually do?
Not add “we get to invade Eastern Europe if we feel like it” as a clause in negotiations with the allies.
Very unserious.
Could they have been less self interested in some of the terms? Absolutely. Is there a single nation state that isn’t self interested? no. Maybe that’s why nation States are dogshit ways to organise.
The Polish government, trusting the British one, and choosing to believe that the soviet terms requiring permission to move armies through Poland were a prelude to invasion damned their own people to slaughter at the hands of the Nazis.
I’m sure the rich elites were trying to make the best decision for the citizenry, and not trying to save their own wealth. Government is typically so selfless afterall.
Yes. There is never any excuse for helping Nazis. There is no amount of bullshit you can spew to make that OK retrospectively. The Soviets didn’t just make an alliance with the nazis, they used that alliance as a chance to invade and snag vast amounts of land from other countries while Europe was too busy to stop them. This tankie propaganda that they had no other choice is utter bullshit, and it should be called out for the intellectual diarrhea that it is.
Stalin allied with the nazis to enrich the USSR. He, and every other tankie and useful idiot that support his actions, are nothing more than nazi apologist scum who ought to be lined up against the wall with the rest of the fascists. The deaths that the USSR faced when Hitler finally turned against them were well deserved, and I have no pity for filth wiping each other out, because nothing erases the stain of looking at race supremacists and thinking “yeah, I want some of that”.
extremely willing to forgive Nazis and collaborators afterwards
You say that, and yet, here you are, forgiving nazi collaborators.
Ok so the USSR approaches Britain and France saying “jeeze, this Hitler guy who keeps talking about genocide is a bit spooky. Wanna do something about it?” and France and Britain are non commital because they think they’ll be in a better position if they appease Hitler for a while longer.
Poland sinks it, because they’re more freaked out about the USSR than the Nazis who literally want to work them to death as farm animals which is… wild. So the USSR ends up signing a NAP with Nazi Germany, the same stance that everyone not explicitly allied to the Nazis has, agreeing to let them kill whomever they like if only they do it in “their” borders.
Using the time bought they rapidly, and one notes here pretty brutually, industrialise. Fight the everliving shit out of the Nazis once they have an industrial base and support in a war against them (the original fucking goal of the tripple alliance talks). USSR solidiers spill the majority of blood in Europe, theirs and Nazis. They’re not saints, it’s an army.
After the war, when countries like France are busy forgiving police collaborators and giving them their jobs back, the soviets are killing a lot of Nazis.
Stalin sucked in so many real ways, the USSR failed the utopian vision it was founded on in so many real ways. Calling Stalin a Nazi collaborator is just fucking wild. The Nazis were very explicit in their plans to genocide Slavs, that is what triggered the initial talks. Nobody in the USSR was under any illusions as to where they stood with the Nazis, the brutual policies of rapid industrialisation and militarisation were a result of being abandoned by the rest of Europe because the fucking aristocracy running the horror show preferred Nazis to communists.
your argument isn’t any different this time than before. idc if you think stalin was forced into it, he still worked with nazis and that fucking makes him a nazi collaborator. you don’t get to “but, but” about it. don’t give me that bullshit that he didn’t have a choice, lots of people were given the choice and chose death over working with nazis, including a french teenage girl. but go on about how poor widdle stalin couldn’t do what a teenager could.
you make me fucking sick. at least we know what fucking choice YOU’LL make when trump comes knocking on your door to inform on your neighbors.
you make me fucking sick. at least we know what fucking choice YOU’LL make when trump comes knocking on your door to inform on your neighbors.
God damned I wish I had more room in my lemmy bio cause that is hysterical for so many reasons.
You don’t need to jump between binary assessments of people like a demented lib.
Stalin Derangement Syndrome is important today to motivate hatred against Russia. Everyone loves Ukrainian nazis motivating/bussifying their citizens to the front lines, and everyone hates being called a tankie. So every lie/absurdity diminishing Stalin is useful in geopolitical demonism and diminishment against Russia. It helps the idiocracy stay moronic.
at first I thought you were just another tankie, but looking at your profile, you’re too fucking stupid to be a tankie.
You heard it here first, @naevaTheRat@lemmy.dbzer0.com hates the allies of WW2.
I mean, plenty of reasons to hate the allies. Including, you know, colonialism.
for context, the OP is posting this here as an underhanded dig at dbzer0, which he thinks is run by and full of tankies. he was just perma-banned from c/Libjerk, after posting this with an alt to evade a ban he had on another account. he is quite beside himself because when he posted the accusation thread to the LW tankiejerk, he was mocked and downvoted. or “ratio’d”, as he put it.
https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/51520539
EDIT: he was also banned today from the LW Tankiejerk comm, as well as several other LW comms, for “vote manipulation”.
Pug banned them? This is like the most pug like user in a long time, tied with cm00002. Oh right pug can’t handle that
Pug banning them is really bizarre, they’re basically a one to one with Pug. Really odd.
That’s what the modlog says. I didn’t check his alts, so idk if it’s just the one, but it was banned for vote manipulation. No idea what banjo did to earn that tho, because he says it’s just because PJ “didn’t like” him.
Considering pug seems to hate everyone it wouldn’t surprise me, especially with ops behavior.
Vote manipulation as the reason though is just hilarious
Well, banjo did get banned by me from Libjerk for being a turbo lib. He then hopped on his alt and posted to our Tankiejerk, where I banned his alt for ban evasion. So I don’t doubt he was up to something, probably double dipping on votes with his alt.
It was actually moreso because crossposting isn’t available on piefed.world yet.
I’ve never automated any voting processes, btw, they just banned me because they don’t like me lmao. The other day I got a screencap of one of the DB0 Tankiejerk mods outing himself as a Tankie, I highly reccomend people use the REAL tankiejerk community.
I was in a few of the other posts you made with this… and this behavior is not what i assumed. Why are you here and not in hexbear straddling the line and wasting their time? Also that screenshot doesn’t say shut about anyone’s potential political beliefs.
I love dunking on tankies as much as the next guy, but wtf is this misfire dude?
Because they would tap out immediately after having their flaws in logic pointed out. Or just call them tankies not worth his time like here
Literally nothing in that screenshot is supporting your claim, you’re just being insufferable.
He’s so far right, every vaguely progressive person is a Tankie to him.
Yeah I tagged him as a shitlib in Thunder when he was yapping about how Gavin Newsom is somehow beyond criticism the other day.
The DNC’s Chosen is immune to critcism, tankie! He can platform fascists, be transphobic for popularity, and hate the poor because he’s blue! It’s disgusting if he’s Republican, but okay when the DNC allows it.
Right, no, of course being defensive for Tankies and including them in “we” totally isn’t Tankie behavior.
I highly reccomend people use the REAL tankiejerk community.
you mean the one you just got banned from by PugJesus? lol. lmao even.
hey, better luck convincing people we’re tankies on the next thread you go to hatewhine in, little buddy.
Hatewine? Is that like the new “virtue signal” where you’re not allowed to call out hate?
This meme brought to you by true French, Italian, Romanian, Hungarian, Bulgarian, Croatian, and Finish patriots.
Being a Nazi collaborator is not a contest or something you have to make a ranking. Either you are one or you are not.
Wow! A flippanarchy was the first defender, I’m not surprised but my money was elsewhere.
spicy meme of the day
Really wish it wasn’t considered controversial but here we are.
