Is that something ready to buy in Europe as a consumer? Would love to replace Starlink

You have a very dichotomous view of this subject.

All I was trying to convince you is that Israel is not all evil. I can give you countless examples where Palestinians have been treated very well by Israel and by IDF soldiers.

I don’t blame you for your haitred. It’s a product of your experience. I wish you all the well and that you will find peace one day (all of us).

Palestinians were unaware

Of the UN partition plan ? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Partition_Plan_for_Palestine#:~:text=Nations.[138]-,Arabs in Palestine,-Haj Amin al

never agreed

Correct

I know “Shovrim Shtika”. They are doing important work.

Like I said, there are bad apples and bad things are being done.

But it’s not everyone. And not even the majority.

When I was serving, I have never encountered a situation where any of my team members did anything like that. But I know these things exist. In most of the cases I heard of, these things were taken very seriously inside the IDF and people were kicked out and sentenced.

Unfortunately, occupation is corrupting the soul and in recent years the cases have grown in numbers. Add to that the horrible government Israel currently has and you get a shit show.

Israel makes mistakes and have very bad policies. I am the last one to defend it.

However, IDF is not a murderous organization as you think of it. There are clear rules on how to engage in combat and strict written moral rules that everyone should follow. I know because I served there and was taught these rules and had to memorize https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/IDF_Code_of_Ethics

However, people are people. There are bad apples. People also just make mistakes and Israel has (too) many different opinions and fragments and ideologies that I have nothing in common with. So yeah it’s complicated.

Your view of Israel as one murderous genocidal entity is not different from the view a lot of Israelis have of the Palestinians, especially after October 7th, that is sad and will not bring the conflict anywhere to an end

Jews have lived in this land. They were given part of that land again after ww2 by a UN decision. Arabs that were living there were also given part.

Jews were willing to share their part of the land with the Arabs, as equal citizens

Jews accepted the offer, Arabs didn’t and declared war.

Everything since then just went downhill

Personally, I’m in favor of going back to the original resolution and have two countries. But if having sharing one country will end the conflict, then by all means…

Unfortunately both sides don’t have enough interest of solving this conflict…

It IS the government

Then according to your same logic, it is a genocidal government as well, as they murdered 1200 people in few hours.

Hamas doesn’t embed itself

Thier fighters are fighting from within the population. It’s by design, and there’s evidence that they prevent the innocent population from fleeing the war zone even by shooting people who try to flee.

I have as much sympathy for them as I do for visitors to a slave plantation caught up in a slave uprising. Which is to say, some, but not too much. The blame should lay on the family that took their children to a plantation, knowing it was a plantation.

This analogy makes me understand that you see no legitimacy what so ever for the existence of the state of Israel, or Jews in that land, no matter on which borders.

I won’t go into the history of Jews in the land of Israel as I don’t think it will convince you with anything. You think of Jews as a colonial (white) power occupying a foreign land. Let’s agree to disagree.

The situation with the Palestinians in Gaza is very tragic and sad. At no point did I ignore it. War is horrible and especially when Hamas embeds itself inside the civilian population, people get hurt and it’s very sad.

I think that you, however, are completely oblivious to the suffering on the other side. There are still little children held hostage in the tunnels under Gaza. Call it resistance, freedom fighting as much as you want. It’s no less tragic.

Even though Hamas started this round, the question of who started it is irrelevant. The relevant question is how does it end. No side is willing to make any compromise and I fear this will go on for years still.

Firing rockets at another country on a regular basis is also an act of war

If you are talking about the water situation in Gaza prior to October 7th, I want to remind you that Gaza also borders with Egypt and any humanitarian crisis that is present in Gaza could be easily aided by Egypt, opening its borders and providing them all the water they need. They are their “brothers” after all.

In my opinion, Israel has the right to refuse aid to a place that constantly fires rockets at them. But Egypt, What is their excuse? Why are you not pointing your criticism towards them as well?

The sad thing is that Israel has developed advanced technology to shoot rockets in the air. This paradoxically has been a mistake as it normalizes firing rockets as long as the casualty numbers are very low.

Please, if you can, tell me of any other example of a country that will allow constant barraging rockets towards its land and still provide aid to their enemy?

I like how you quote critical articles from Israeli media, that is a testimony that freedom of speech is very much a real thing there.

The first article from Haaretz which is very known as anti settlements leftist newspaper. All it says is that instead of giving weapons for the population in the villages and kibbutz and cities around Gaza to defend themselves in case of intrusion, it was given for settlements in the west bank and when the shit hit the fan they were completely unprepared.

The second article is also an internal criticism of the progroms that went in Huwara. I am happy that criticism of Israel is still possible

The last one about Itzik Zarka, who should really not get a headline as he’s the lowest form of scum, yeah these people exist but are very much on the fringe of society and do not deserve any attention. Unfortunately Bibi likes to use these people when convenient for him

They most definitely have uniforms, they just don’t use them when fighting Israel as they are embedded inside civilians. And they most definitely hide and attack from schools, mosques and hospitals.

A lot of what you said is just factually incorrect. Putting the west bank aside and focusing on Gaza, there was no humanitarian crisis before October 7 and there are no settlements in Gaza. The “snipers at the border” were not so effective on the day of October 7th when Hamas broke into Israel and massacred women and children. Hamas did not go into settlements in the west bank. It went into regular villages and cities and did what it did.

And that last part about the mocking of Holocaust survivors, not sure where you get that from

Every Palestinian in Gaza knows they are using hospitals, mosques, schools to conduct their military operation from there. Have you seen them wearing uniforms in their videos?

This is no secret, it’s playbook assymetric warfare tactic I honestly don’t understand the denial about it. Do you expect them to have some military base with a helicopter landing so Israel can bomb it in a second?

At which point do you believe that Hamas will disarm its arsenal of rockets firing regularly at Israel ? What would need to happen for Hamas to do that you think ?

I think Palestinians are very much conceived as the victims today world wide. And I think they are playing that card well and I don’t blame them for that.

I didn’t want to go to “who started it” because it’s a useless debate. The cycle has been going for decades with casualties on both ends.

I’m very much capable of empathy. This whole thread is about the Israel Hamas war so I steered the discussion back to that topic.

I am very sad about the current state of affairs, there’s immense suffering on both ends and it’s not going to stop anytime soon. I don’t hate Palestinians. As an expat Israeli, every time I see a Palestinian abroad we usually become friends and naturally have more in common.

I’m saying exactly that, there’s a propaganda echo chamber and information on the other side is very little so not sure where we disagree on that

Do you just want to troll or have a meaningful discussion?

I can see you are washed with hatred, I don’t blame you.

I can tell you many stories about Israeli peace activists that were affected by all this as well, like this guy for example: https://www.marketwatch.com/story/israeli-exec-who-hired-palestinians-in-tech-boom-still-hopes-for-peace-while-mourning-slain-daughter-c8af06c8

He hired engineers from Gaza and the west bank to try and foster peace through work and his daughter was murdered on Oct 7th. He still hasn’t given up on hope.

If you only choose to hate, you continue to cycle