@amemorablename I would’ve thought people would be familiar with the terminology, given this is an ML group, and Mao uses this terminology with some frequency.

marxists.org/history/erol/ncm-…

@PoY Whatever. Maybe I am, if I’m the only one here who thinks it’s obvious that none of this adds up. I’ll bow out.

@yogthos Ollama is, if I recall, an American project sponsored by Meta. And Stable Diffusion, as already mentioned, is American too. So, after your very first post to me in here was proclaiming that you’re using Chinese software, now you admit that you aren’t.

In your post there, you have two text-to-image generation models. Again, one of them I’d found (and is the one that I could find nothing but broken links for), one of them I hadn’t.

(Edit: Two that I had; I see Qwen is the one that Alibaba is released, so, my bad on reading comprehension)

I’m not lacking in research, you’re lacking in honesty. And you accuse me of low effort trolling when you’re literally using AI to manufacture replies to me? Dude.

@amemorablename @MasterBlaster Not my words. Read Mao.

@m532 I’m not talking about the makers of memecoins, I’m talking about big players in the rings of Meta and Amazon. And, I mean, Musk?

Also, most AI is now proprietary. Like crypto, it started out as an open project, but has since become a profit generator even in cases that (unlike Deepseek and OpanAI) are still open source.

@MasterBlaster I didn’t mention its disruptive effect on intellectual/artistic labour. I brought up the fact that these generative platforms are created and run by companies who have their fingers wrist-deep in current successful far-right movements, and that the AI aesthetic has become the aesthetic of these movements.

I don’t think Yogthis is using a generative LLM produced by China on their computer. I looked around; there are two of them, and neither seem to have their source published on an English-speaking website. So unless one goes through the trouble of tracking down working links for ERNIE or Alibaba’s generative AI source codes and implementing them off of Chinese instructions, you are using the software and the aesthetic of these fascist companies, therefore normalizing it and benefiting it.

Edit: God, they even responded to someone asking for the source with an AI-generated answer that only links chatbot source codes and only touches on one of the above two mentioned generative AIs out of China (which, again, doesn’t have a working link that I could find; it’s based on a model by PaddlePaddle, which you can get, but ERNIE’s text-to-image AI itself seems to be gone from the English internet).

@yogthos You didn’t transcribe it, you got an AI to, and told me “here are some main points”. If that doesn’t speak to the culture of dishonesty and laziness inherent to generative LLMs, I’m not sure what does.

“the root of anti-AI narrative on the left” is an oxymoron that again shows you don’t know what reactionism is. You can’t be both “on the left” and reactionary. Reactionism is opposition to social progress, which AI is frequently at the heart of now. Again, is it “reactionary” to oppose using fascist aesthetic in agitprop? Yes, or no?

The link you gave lumps AI and robotics into one question, which is inherently misleading. Also, we don’t live in China — a country that is still developing and advancing its capitalist means of production and is not yet suffering the decline plaguing the western world. Chinese people aren’t just “more sane” than I am, they have a different material reality. More importantly, I never brought up AI’s effect on labour, so I’m not even sure what you’re trying to say with this link in the first place.

@yogthos you uh, couldn’t even have given those “couple of points” yourself and had to ask an AI to even do that for you?

Frankly, it looks like a paper tiger. It calls out one organization that is involved in lawsuits against generative AI companies and acts shocked that it’s backed by large corporations. Of course it is. But no one that you’ll ever meet really gives a damn about these lawsuits; no one is complaining that AI is violating copyright. This organization isn’t at the root of the anti-AI narrative; it’s vestigial at best.

And this video seems to understand that, but you don’t: Even the title states that the organization uses the anti-AI narrative, not the other way around. However, generative AI is the fascist-corporate alliance, the evolution of the crypto and web3 bubbles into something that is tailored to the mass production and dissemination of misinformation in service to the far right. Just because some capitalist organizations are against it doesn’t make it not a fascist endeavour; that’s a fallacy I’d hope you understand.

Also, reactionary doesn’t mean “opposed to the use of a technology”.

@yogthos you uh, couldn’t even have given those “couple of points” yourself and had to ask an AI to even do that for you?

Frankly, it looks like a paper tiger. It calls out one organization that is involved in lawsuits against generative AI companies and acts shocked that it’s backed by large corporations. Of course it is. But no one that you’ll ever meet really gives a damn about these lawsuits; no one is complaining that AI is violating copyright. This organization isn’t at the root of the anti-AI narrative; it’s vestigial at best.

And this video seems to understand that, but you don’t: Even the title states that the organization uses the anti-AI narrative, not the other way around. However, generative AI is the fascist-corporate alliance, the evolution of the crypto and web3 bubbles into something that is tailored to the mass production and dissemination of misinformation in service to the far right. Just because some capitalist organizations are against it doesn’t make it not a fascist endeavour; that’s a fallacy I’d hope you understand.

Also, reactionary doesn’t mean “opposed to the use of a technology”.

@yogthos Stable Diffusion is open source, too. And it doesn’t matter where you got it from when it comes to the fash aesthetic, which this only serves to normalize and to make left-wing pseudo-content that is significantly easier to muddy and appropriate.

And…people don’t want it. The only people for whom it would be effective agitprop are the backward group.

@yogthos Generative AI companies are tied directly to fascist organizations and government. Their aesthetic is tied strongly to far-right movements. They are not a tool for us; you may as well say Volkswagen and that Nazi Propaganda Gothic German font are our tools.

@rainpizza @MasterBlaster They have a lot of really cool-looking games. I’m a big Squirrel & Hedgehog fan, and there’s at least a couple games for both mobile and arcades, and probably PC, too, that we’ve only gotten to see glimpses of.

But yeah, the DPRK actually has thriving IT and development fields. Hacking cryptobros could probably be considered a major sector in their economy at this point.

@rainpizza Schrödinger’s North Korea: Has no electricity and people don’t even know how to use a computer, but the state media is promoting a new video game for personal devices.

@Cowbee @Hansae Absolutely. I don’t use the term lightly. Frankly, even the presumably-Marxist up there trying to make a defence is living in a weird fantasy version of it. If there’s a difference between the dignity of workers and the “glory of the state”, you’re not talking about a worker’s democracy, you’re talking about a comic-book western interpretation of what socialist nationalism looks and sounds like.

I feel pretentious as hell, but it has to be said that all in all this thread is full of disappointment on all ends. And now that I’m back to read it even more…where are the mods to take care of the bozos going on about gulags and icepicks?

@davel Imperialism isn’t about the creation of vassals, it’s an economic division of the world, which Russia certainly does. International oil is a huge thing for them, just as it is for the US. And one imperial side helping the global south against the other imperial side should not be surprising. As it is, African nations are seeing Russia as a better alternative to the USA and China, which is of course by design, and is nothing new.

@davel Russia is definitely imperialist, they have their fingers in a good chunk of the Middle East and have in-roads into Africa. Are they on the same level as the USA? Not remotely. But all they would need is a power vacuum in order to make it happen.

@protestation shit, there’s some absolute anarkiddies in this place that don’t have the foggiest clue about what a worker’s democracy looks like.

@protestation @Valmond Bet you think black people must be inferior because they were enslaved by Europeans, too.

@protestation So many dang trade unionists in this group. Trade unions are not communism. Capitalist trade unions are not even a solid step in the direction of socialism. The only thing they’re good for is building worker solidarity, and only if used for that purpose; they don’t themselves actually build working class power or oppose capitalist rulership.

@Cowbee @protestation same