No. I’ve come to terms with who I am and even like some aspects of it that I would miss so I wouldn’t give it up if I had the choice, but it’s a disability for me, has been a very hard struggle, and I don’t even have it as severe as some. I wouldn’t wish this on more people. (Unless it was 100% of people because most of the struggles I have with the tism come from trying to live in a world designed by NTs that probably wouldn’t exist in a world where everyone had tism)
Oh, I getchu. I would say a huge component of the disability, probably almost all of it, is because of the ways society is structured to punish anyone who isn’t a NT majority-demographic person. (Which means it literally would be better if it was 100%).
Autism is a wide spectrum involving people with different life experiences. It’s ok for you to say that you personally don’t like being autistic, but do not use that to throw dirt on the people who are doing fine despite social discrimination.
Unless it was 100% of people because most of the struggles I have with the tism come from trying to live in a world designed by NTs that probably wouldn’t exist in a world where everyone had tism
…And this adds even more to my point. This sounds to me like the message of someone who isn’t suffering so much due to their innate characteristics as they have due to being discriminated. If you’re at that point, the logical position isn’t “I wish to be normal”, but “I wish society wasn’t so full of assholes and was more tolerant”.
The classic Ouroboros of virtue. You tried so hard to be an ally that you alienated the one you are sticking up for. They didn’t throw dirt on anyone, they gave their own opinion about a first hand experience and you had the audacity to tell them that they were wrong (“logically”, of course, so that it sounds like a fact that they can’t argue with). They said they like some aspects of it, to the point where they wouldn’t give it up given the choice and you straw-manned them with “I wish to be normal”. They introduced nuance into the conversation and you chose to interpret that as black and white dissent.
Yeah, I read it. Yeah, I’m autistic too but you didn’t lead with that so it wouldn’t have been proper for me to assume, now would it? As a brief aside, that makes the Ouroboros analogy even stronger so I’m not exactly sure what ethos you think that brings to the conversation. I disagree with your interpretation of @flerp@lemm.ee 's comment to the point where I would say it is careless bullying. They didn’t say anything wrong or try to push their agenda on anyone. They merely gave their own opinion based on their own experiences as they are entitled to do. Instead of accusing them with flimsy fallacy after fallacy, simply try to make your point. If you can’t make your point without shitting on someone else then re-evaluate if it is a point worth making. Flerp’s comment was basically just “I wouldn’t wish this on anyone” with about a paragraph of padding to apologize for and rationalize why it was ok to say that when others have had different experiences. They were clearly very conscientious about how it could be misinterpreted and you went ahead and misinterpreted it anyways. Slow down, read, be kind.
The most difficult part of having autism for me is the need to analyze everything to try and figure out why people are acting the way they are.
No issues here, that attitude helps to solve misunderstandings.
I was thinking you might have autism from your post
Correct, I said so somewhere else.
They are expressing their feelings, and a neurotypical person would probably see your response as dismissive because you are telling them what they should feel instead.
I don’t want to invalidate anyone’s feelings, but everyone might have misdirected feelings sometimes. For instance, it is common among victims of abuse to hate themselves rather than the perpetrators of the abuse. If someone has an inherently debilitating condition, it’s perfectly natural for them to hate that condition. If someone has a condition that is, for the most part, neutral, but suffers social discrimination because of it, and places the origin of their pain in their condition, rather than in the discrimination, that is similar to an ethnic minority who suffers from racism growing into hating the fact that they’re an ethnic minority. If someone literally says “most of the struggles I have with the tism come from trying to live in a world designed by NTs”, that pretty much sounds like they do fit what I’m saying. Because autism is a wide spectrum, I’m aware that some people in it do actually have innate difficulties due to being on the spectrum that wouldn’t have emerged in a perfect environment, and if you read my original comment, you’ll see that I’m speaking in terms of possibilities and conditionals. But there is also a lot of autistic people who shouldn’t unload their loathing into being autistic, but into the fact that suffering discrimination through their whole lives has made them accrue so much trauma that they’ve developed a different debilitating condition.
I am thinking that you might be getting downvoted because the problem seems to be an emotional subtext that isn’t immediately obvious.
That’s the case for at least some of the downvotes. There is also at least one user who was defending the narrative that every person on the spectrum should hate the condition.
I am thinking they expect you to identify yourself as having autism, and without that frame of reference a neurotypical person might jump to conclusions that you aren’t?
Do you mean this in the sense that I didn’t initially mention I’m autistic, or in the sense of the dichotomy “being autistic vs having autism”? If it’s the former, that’s on their part for jumping into conclusions. If it’s the latter, they should read into it and accept the reasons that lead some people to prefer one kind of language over the other.
I appreciate your interest into having a clear understanding of the discussion. Have a good day.
If you see a comment that breaks the rules, please report it and include which rule you believe it violated in the “reason” box. Don’t argue/reply to comments that break the rules, just ignore them or block the user after you’ve reported it.
I cannot report the comment of an user I have blocked, but you have had the chance to see it if you even put the minimum effort to check the context of my comment that you removed.
The comment of that user is in line with a social trend that aims to silence the voices of autism self advocates, to impose the discourse that autism is an ill that must be destroyed. If you had checked the other comments of that user, you would seen them speaking in behalf of parents of autistic people, rather than in behalf of autistic people themselves. Maintain the context and change the term: [No one likes being gay], [No one likes being black]. It is not difficult to see that it is hate speech. The fact that you warned someone getting angry at an user telling them that their identity ought not to exist, and actively or inadvertently promoting hate speech, but did nothing with the initial offending comments, makes me distrust the moderation of this community. Do you understand the issue?
Ok, that’s not 100% true as autism is a spectrum. Sure there are some parts of the spectrum that does make independence difficult.
As someone who is on the spectrum, I have trouble with social situations, including sarcasm and taking things literally - I struggle to take a hint and unless you make it extremely obvious I won’t notice flirting… I don’t even notice myself flirting tbh - I try not to use that as an excuse. but I’m reasonable with money management, and I do quite well on my own (I spend more time by myself on my computer and technology than I do with my parents, and we live in the same house.) I have a full time job (still trying to work out how I managed that tbh) with an upcoming pay rise due to a contract buyout. (Let’s fucking go!)
Not all autism is the same, and sure there are some higher ends of the spectrum that people require assistance, and then there’s everyone in between. I needed more assistance in school - I never finished an exam before my extended time limit , and I had regular extensions on assignments. But aside from that I got through it mostly on my own.
I wasn’t diagnosed until after my first semester of uni, as public service autism assessments had a waiting list and going private was incredibly expensive.
Sadly a lot of that isn’t necessarily about ability to work, but ability to get through a job interview.
The whole interview process is going to weed out the candidates who aren’t as sociable, outgoing, charismatic, etc. They are going to look at body language and eye contact while doing small talk. A lot of soft skills like that are more important to pass a job interview than actual technical knowledge. Even when the job has no customer facing requirements.
They also tend to not have the connections that get your foot in the door.
It’s bias in an interview process that isn’t designed with autism in mind. Many who have high IQ with attention to detail, technical skills and are hard workers are still unable to get a job offer because they come off as disinterested or awkward.
It isn’t just the interview part. The entire job application process is discriminatory against neurodivergent people. For example pretty much any time a company does one of these hokey “personality tests” as part of it’s employee selection it heavily selects against people with autism. They aren’t allowed to refuse to hire disabled people but they certainly do their best to make it a forgone conclusion anyway.
Me and my girlfriend are both autistic and we would never wish this on anyone. Our child will most likely be autistic, and while we’re more than fine with that, we’d love if the kid didn’t have to go through the same shit as us
Make no mistake, I love who I am, but being ND is a disability and struggle for the rest of your life
This comment stinks of someone without a disability having wishful thinking.
Yes, it’s true my daughter is the sweetest, most loving, perfect child on the planet. But she also didn’t get potty trained until age 6. She will never be able to drive. She’s only going to be able to hold the most basic jobs. She’ll likely never be able to live independently.
There is definitely nothing wrong with autism and she is easily way better than any other person I’ve ever met. But she also faces some real challenges in life, and I don’t wish that everyone in the world had that.
Thank you for pointing this out, many people are not aware of what real autism is like, and associate mild adhd or just distraction as a result of to much internet as autism.
I started at a point of “vaccines obviously don’t cause autism, that’s absurd.”
I transitioned through “even if they did, there’s nothing wrong with being autistic”
These days I’m at “autistic people are way better than NT people and I wish vaccines caused autism”
No. I’ve come to terms with who I am and even like some aspects of it that I would miss so I wouldn’t give it up if I had the choice, but it’s a disability for me, has been a very hard struggle, and I don’t even have it as severe as some. I wouldn’t wish this on more people. (Unless it was 100% of people because most of the struggles I have with the tism come from trying to live in a world designed by NTs that probably wouldn’t exist in a world where everyone had tism)
Oh, I getchu. I would say a huge component of the disability, probably almost all of it, is because of the ways society is structured to punish anyone who isn’t a NT majority-demographic person. (Which means it literally would be better if it was 100%).
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Autism is a wide spectrum involving people with different life experiences. It’s ok for you to say that you personally don’t like being autistic, but do not use that to throw dirt on the people who are doing fine despite social discrimination.
…And this adds even more to my point. This sounds to me like the message of someone who isn’t suffering so much due to their innate characteristics as they have due to being discriminated. If you’re at that point, the logical position isn’t “I wish to be normal”, but “I wish society wasn’t so full of assholes and was more tolerant”.
The classic Ouroboros of virtue. You tried so hard to be an ally that you alienated the one you are sticking up for. They didn’t throw dirt on anyone, they gave their own opinion about a first hand experience and you had the audacity to tell them that they were wrong (“logically”, of course, so that it sounds like a fact that they can’t argue with). They said they like some aspects of it, to the point where they wouldn’t give it up given the choice and you straw-manned them with “I wish to be normal”. They introduced nuance into the conversation and you chose to interpret that as black and white dissent.
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Yeah, I read it. Yeah, I’m autistic too but you didn’t lead with that so it wouldn’t have been proper for me to assume, now would it? As a brief aside, that makes the Ouroboros analogy even stronger so I’m not exactly sure what ethos you think that brings to the conversation. I disagree with your interpretation of @flerp@lemm.ee 's comment to the point where I would say it is careless bullying. They didn’t say anything wrong or try to push their agenda on anyone. They merely gave their own opinion based on their own experiences as they are entitled to do. Instead of accusing them with flimsy fallacy after fallacy, simply try to make your point. If you can’t make your point without shitting on someone else then re-evaluate if it is a point worth making. Flerp’s comment was basically just “I wouldn’t wish this on anyone” with about a paragraph of padding to apologize for and rationalize why it was ok to say that when others have had different experiences. They were clearly very conscientious about how it could be misinterpreted and you went ahead and misinterpreted it anyways. Slow down, read, be kind.
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No issues here, that attitude helps to solve misunderstandings.
Correct, I said so somewhere else.
I don’t want to invalidate anyone’s feelings, but everyone might have misdirected feelings sometimes. For instance, it is common among victims of abuse to hate themselves rather than the perpetrators of the abuse. If someone has an inherently debilitating condition, it’s perfectly natural for them to hate that condition. If someone has a condition that is, for the most part, neutral, but suffers social discrimination because of it, and places the origin of their pain in their condition, rather than in the discrimination, that is similar to an ethnic minority who suffers from racism growing into hating the fact that they’re an ethnic minority. If someone literally says “most of the struggles I have with the tism come from trying to live in a world designed by NTs”, that pretty much sounds like they do fit what I’m saying. Because autism is a wide spectrum, I’m aware that some people in it do actually have innate difficulties due to being on the spectrum that wouldn’t have emerged in a perfect environment, and if you read my original comment, you’ll see that I’m speaking in terms of possibilities and conditionals. But there is also a lot of autistic people who shouldn’t unload their loathing into being autistic, but into the fact that suffering discrimination through their whole lives has made them accrue so much trauma that they’ve developed a different debilitating condition.
That’s the case for at least some of the downvotes. There is also at least one user who was defending the narrative that every person on the spectrum should hate the condition.
Do you mean this in the sense that I didn’t initially mention I’m autistic, or in the sense of the dichotomy “being autistic vs having autism”? If it’s the former, that’s on their part for jumping into conclusions. If it’s the latter, they should read into it and accept the reasons that lead some people to prefer one kind of language over the other.
I appreciate your interest into having a clear understanding of the discussion. Have a good day.
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Please read the rules of this community before participating again. Aggressiveness is not welcome here.
Have you actually warned and removed the comment that said “no one likes being autistic” as well?
If you see a comment that breaks the rules, please report it and include which rule you believe it violated in the “reason” box. Don’t argue/reply to comments that break the rules, just ignore them or block the user after you’ve reported it.
I cannot report the comment of an user I have blocked, but you have had the chance to see it if you even put the minimum effort to check the context of my comment that you removed.
The comment of that user is in line with a social trend that aims to silence the voices of autism self advocates, to impose the discourse that autism is an ill that must be destroyed. If you had checked the other comments of that user, you would seen them speaking in behalf of parents of autistic people, rather than in behalf of autistic people themselves. Maintain the context and change the term: [No one likes being gay], [No one likes being black]. It is not difficult to see that it is hate speech. The fact that you warned someone getting angry at an user telling them that their identity ought not to exist, and actively or inadvertently promoting hate speech, but did nothing with the initial offending comments, makes me distrust the moderation of this community. Do you understand the issue?
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Ok, that’s not 100% true as autism is a spectrum. Sure there are some parts of the spectrum that does make independence difficult.
As someone who is on the spectrum, I have trouble with social situations, including sarcasm and taking things literally - I struggle to take a hint and unless you make it extremely obvious I won’t notice flirting… I don’t even notice myself flirting tbh - I try not to use that as an excuse. but I’m reasonable with money management, and I do quite well on my own (I spend more time by myself on my computer and technology than I do with my parents, and we live in the same house.) I have a full time job (still trying to work out how I managed that tbh) with an upcoming pay rise due to a contract buyout. (Let’s fucking go!)
Not all autism is the same, and sure there are some higher ends of the spectrum that people require assistance, and then there’s everyone in between. I needed more assistance in school - I never finished an exam before my extended time limit , and I had regular extensions on assignments. But aside from that I got through it mostly on my own.
I wasn’t diagnosed until after my first semester of uni, as public service autism assessments had a waiting list and going private was incredibly expensive.
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Sadly a lot of that isn’t necessarily about ability to work, but ability to get through a job interview.
The whole interview process is going to weed out the candidates who aren’t as sociable, outgoing, charismatic, etc. They are going to look at body language and eye contact while doing small talk. A lot of soft skills like that are more important to pass a job interview than actual technical knowledge. Even when the job has no customer facing requirements.
They also tend to not have the connections that get your foot in the door.
It’s bias in an interview process that isn’t designed with autism in mind. Many who have high IQ with attention to detail, technical skills and are hard workers are still unable to get a job offer because they come off as disinterested or awkward.
It isn’t just the interview part. The entire job application process is discriminatory against neurodivergent people. For example pretty much any time a company does one of these hokey “personality tests” as part of it’s employee selection it heavily selects against people with autism. They aren’t allowed to refuse to hire disabled people but they certainly do their best to make it a forgone conclusion anyway.
Me and my girlfriend are both autistic and we would never wish this on anyone. Our child will most likely be autistic, and while we’re more than fine with that, we’d love if the kid didn’t have to go through the same shit as us
Make no mistake, I love who I am, but being ND is a disability and struggle for the rest of your life
If you said that NT were way better, you’d be called an asshole and bigot. How’s the reverse any different?
Yeahhh I can appreciate the well meant sentiment he was going for but he circled all the way back to being prejudiced lol
Because neurotypical people are in the majority, are not marginalized, and have all the power in the relationship between the two groups.
Why is it so hard for bigots to understand that society creates a context.
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Well, this comment tells me everything I need to know about what kind of idiot you are.
How is an ant stepping on an elephant any different than an elephant stepping on an ant?
You know this analogy is bullshit. Saying “type x of people are better” will always be the wrong thing to say
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This comment stinks of someone without a disability having wishful thinking.
Yes, it’s true my daughter is the sweetest, most loving, perfect child on the planet. But she also didn’t get potty trained until age 6. She will never be able to drive. She’s only going to be able to hold the most basic jobs. She’ll likely never be able to live independently.
There is definitely nothing wrong with autism and she is easily way better than any other person I’ve ever met. But she also faces some real challenges in life, and I don’t wish that everyone in the world had that.
Thank you for pointing this out, many people are not aware of what real autism is like, and associate mild adhd or just distraction as a result of to much internet as autism.
If you’re like that, everyone will start thinking you are some kind of extremist.