I haven’t tried to use Linux for desktop in a while, probably as long as they haven’t used windows. Because in my mind what they said is 100% backwards.
You’re right about the network drivers, but on things like serial drivers, Windows is a fucking nightmare. Hell, I can’t use some devices because FTDI drivers will brick the device if it decides its a knockoff of their chip. Getting anything working that isn’t consumer grade is a shit show.
Serial drivers? Are we talking rs232? (Checks what tf ftdi is)
Ah yes. We really are talking about very old school stuff. It brings back memories.
This week I learned we have a waterslide connected through rs232 to a pi in our network. How’s that for a IOT discovery. Working for a medium sized municipality really shows you all the bonkers solutions (and implementations) out there. If you can think a IT horror up, chances are good somebody really has created it and is using it commercially.
Back to your issue, which is more a Ftdi issue then a windows issue since they themselves create the crashing drivers. And I can see how an old school serial port, connected to a modern pc can result in all kinds of havoc when done wrong.
I see FTDI also have usb to rs232 solutions. That should work… Mostly. (as long as the solution doesn’t go looking for an irq or other horror from the past.)
I’m really getting curious for what use case you’re still using rs232. Most network gear these days is perfectly managed without it.
I was a windows user up until about a year and a half ago, and had this issue as recently as Windows 10. I had to use my phone as a tether to go download the drivers for my TP-Link Archer T6E. Also had the issue with my MSI z97m Gaming where I had to go find drivers for the built-in wired network adapter, again using my phone as a tether, on Windows 8.1
Idk, I just built a PC with Realtek mobo integrated wifi, we couldn’t even install the OS because it didn’t detect the NIC and Windows forced us to sign in before it would continue the installation.
Had to lug the machine to a router to get anywhere, and still had to download the Asus mobo software to get the wireless going. Wasn’t convenient in the least.
Nope. Because Realtek commit their drivers directly to the Linux kernel, they may be a bit slower getting the driver to the consumer depending on their internal team that’s developing/handling the driver and how long the code review takes on the kernel maintainer side but even then you can generally get the driver early e.g. before it’s merged into the kernel via a dkms a.k.a out-of-tree driver (easily found in something like the AUR).
Once the Realtek WiFi driver is merged you don’t have to worry about it because it’ll be in every distro with the following kernel release.
We had a USB prepared with drivers in advance, but that’s useless when you can’t get to a desktop. I admittedly didn’t realize you couldn’t even install Windows 11 without an active network.
Linux would at least let me install the base system and configure the drivers after. Funny enough that USB mentioned is my ventoy and we did experiment with Linux Mint before we started on Windows. It found the NIC and network on the live ISO with no effort, I honestly thought it would be smooth sailing after that experiment.
I would have just gone with mint personally but wasn’t my system, was just helping a friend.
For chocolatey, maybe. I haven’t seen a Winget GUI yet.
Microsoft really should do that, but I think the “but what about our App Store numbers” guys would rather that didn’t happen. I don’t believe that anybody outside of people who were already otherwise Linux users has touched winget.
When I last installed Windows I had to google where do download […] On Linux most came preinstalled
You can’t have it both ways.
On one day, you complain about all the so called “bloatware” that’s preinstalled on Windows (more “pre-linked” and easily installed, and these “links” are easily deleted).
The next day, you complain that the specific subset of software you want to use is not preinstalled on Windows.
Lastly, the way you go about finding where to get your software, that’s more of a philosophical question. Do I want someone else to curate a list of available software, or do I want to visit the publisher’s website and get it directly from the source?
At least on Debian/Ubuntu I can use tasksel to select a useful preset of packages right while installing. Base is just a text mode shell with minimal command line tools, Server has some Network Stuff, LXQT, Gnome and so on… for the total N00b it is fine to default to KDE or Gnome, I prefer LXQT though. And tbh, I think Firefox, Libreoffice and VLC are useful preinstall in nearly every use case while the usual stuff on Windows is pretty useless (Another Antivirus? Really? A trial version of a paint programm inferior to Gimp 1.0? Office 365?)
while the usual stuff on Windows is pretty useless
“useless” or “useful” to you. That’s my point. Someone who does not have any use for Libreoffice will get just as annoyed as you would get with a pre-linked Office-Suite.
Sounds like you clearly haven’t used Windows in over a decade, or even close to two.
I haven’t had to install a network driver since Windows XP. Even then it had drivers for most cards built in.
I haven’t tried to use Linux for desktop in a while, probably as long as they haven’t used windows. Because in my mind what they said is 100% backwards.
Seems like both have matured quite a bit
And Windows update takes care of 99.9% of missing drivers automatically.
You’re right about the network drivers, but on things like serial drivers, Windows is a fucking nightmare. Hell, I can’t use some devices because FTDI drivers will brick the device if it decides its a knockoff of their chip. Getting anything working that isn’t consumer grade is a shit show.
Serial drivers? Are we talking rs232? (Checks what tf ftdi is)
Ah yes. We really are talking about very old school stuff. It brings back memories.
This week I learned we have a waterslide connected through rs232 to a pi in our network. How’s that for a IOT discovery. Working for a medium sized municipality really shows you all the bonkers solutions (and implementations) out there. If you can think a IT horror up, chances are good somebody really has created it and is using it commercially.
Back to your issue, which is more a Ftdi issue then a windows issue since they themselves create the crashing drivers. And I can see how an old school serial port, connected to a modern pc can result in all kinds of havoc when done wrong.
I see FTDI also have usb to rs232 solutions. That should work… Mostly. (as long as the solution doesn’t go looking for an irq or other horror from the past.)
I’m really getting curious for what use case you’re still using rs232. Most network gear these days is perfectly managed without it.
USB to serial converters are what use these drivers and they’re used all day long for IOT stuff
Make that 2 decades I gather. Maybe even 3. This sounds like nt4 territory. Maybe barelu6 win2k.
I was a windows user up until about a year and a half ago, and had this issue as recently as Windows 10. I had to use my phone as a tether to go download the drivers for my TP-Link Archer T6E. Also had the issue with my MSI z97m Gaming where I had to go find drivers for the built-in wired network adapter, again using my phone as a tether, on Windows 8.1
Since drivers are so specifc, people’s anecdotal experiences with having to install them is never going to be shared.
IE, I had to install a wired NIC driver just last month on a fresh Windows 10 22H2 for a Dell laptop that was no more than a few years old.
Idk, I just built a PC with Realtek mobo integrated wifi, we couldn’t even install the OS because it didn’t detect the NIC and Windows forced us to sign in before it would continue the installation.
Had to lug the machine to a router to get anywhere, and still had to download the Asus mobo software to get the wireless going. Wasn’t convenient in the least.
So… You didn’t check your installation requirements. Is that what you’re saying?
And this wouldn’t have happened with Linux?
Nope. Because Realtek commit their drivers directly to the Linux kernel, they may be a bit slower getting the driver to the consumer depending on their internal team that’s developing/handling the driver and how long the code review takes on the kernel maintainer side but even then you can generally get the driver early e.g. before it’s merged into the kernel via a dkms a.k.a out-of-tree driver (easily found in something like the AUR). Once the Realtek WiFi driver is merged you don’t have to worry about it because it’ll be in every distro with the following kernel release.
We had a USB prepared with drivers in advance, but that’s useless when you can’t get to a desktop. I admittedly didn’t realize you couldn’t even install Windows 11 without an active network.
Linux would at least let me install the base system and configure the drivers after. Funny enough that USB mentioned is my ventoy and we did experiment with Linux Mint before we started on Windows. It found the NIC and network on the live ISO with no effort, I honestly thought it would be smooth sailing after that experiment.
I would have just gone with mint personally but wasn’t my system, was just helping a friend.
For in the future, I suggest using USB tethering via your smartphone to get WiFi to the device.
That’s big brain stuff, will keep that in mind next time
When I last installed Windows I had to google where do download Libreoffice, Firefox, Steam, Audacity, VLC, Gimp and a lot more software.
On Linux most came preinstalled, the rest was one click in the Repository (“Store” for Generation Smartphone)
Just use winget in PowerShell.
That’s a “terminal” for generation typewriter.
Chocolatey, winget
All that stuff they listed is packaged, versioned, and handled. I’m pretty sure there’s gui’s too, if you’re into that
For chocolatey, maybe. I haven’t seen a Winget GUI yet.
Microsoft really should do that, but I think the “but what about our App Store numbers” guys would rather that didn’t happen. I don’t believe that anybody outside of people who were already otherwise Linux users has touched winget.
You can’t have it both ways.
On one day, you complain about all the so called “bloatware” that’s preinstalled on Windows (more “pre-linked” and easily installed, and these “links” are easily deleted).
The next day, you complain that the specific subset of software you want to use is not preinstalled on Windows.
Lastly, the way you go about finding where to get your software, that’s more of a philosophical question. Do I want someone else to curate a list of available software, or do I want to visit the publisher’s website and get it directly from the source?
At least on Debian/Ubuntu I can use tasksel to select a useful preset of packages right while installing. Base is just a text mode shell with minimal command line tools, Server has some Network Stuff, LXQT, Gnome and so on… for the total N00b it is fine to default to KDE or Gnome, I prefer LXQT though. And tbh, I think Firefox, Libreoffice and VLC are useful preinstall in nearly every use case while the usual stuff on Windows is pretty useless (Another Antivirus? Really? A trial version of a paint programm inferior to Gimp 1.0? Office 365?)
“useless” or “useful” to you. That’s my point. Someone who does not have any use for Libreoffice will get just as annoyed as you would get with a pre-linked Office-Suite.