Yes, you are absolutely correct. Although it’s actually just devolved into “you disagree with me slightly” on lemmy. I think using the term has zero useful purpose unless we’re talking about politicians who embody the definition from Wikipedia. Even then, because people don’t often actually know what it means, it’s probably limited in usefulness even there.
Thanks. I disagree that it has zero useful purpose though. I happen to think that liberals should be constantly reminded of their contradictory beliefs. Capitalism is fundamentally contrary to most of the other rights listed in that definition. The first liberals that started the philosophy probably didn’t realize this, but we now have the benefit of history to inform us. Present liberals need to eventually realize that they must choose between the two if they want to have a consistent philosophy. That means deciding whether they choose conservatism/fascism or socialism.
The thing is though, I’m gonna guess that 90% of users here would never call themselves liberal nor do they support capitalism. The users I’m taking issue with would declare literally anyone a liberal without any solid basis at all besides some disagreement. I’ve seen it so repeatedly, if you haven’t I couldn’t know how.
I don’t know, I see plenty of people here saying that they’re a liberal, even in this thread. Perhaps they’re not aware of the common definition. Sure, this is the internet, so people are prone to misunderstand or label others. However, I think it’s reasonable to call someone a liberal if they provide clear indications that they are. See how many posts here are saying “but oil companies aren’t real capitalism!”
I don’t see anyone saying they’re a liberal except one dude. And I think they’re using the word like Americans have traditionally for years: “left of center”.
I maintain from years of experience that most people on the platform would be considered very left by the average person on the street. Yet despite that, there seems to be a continual witch-hunt for secret “conservatives”. To me, that’s basically all this post ever was. A signal to the “the real leftists” to say “anyone less than full on socialist causes climate change because they are bad people”. You can either think to yourself “that’s not me so I will ignore it” or you can see it for what it is in this context.
I didn’t mean that a lot of people on this thread call themselves liberal, but on Lemmy in general. I see people defending liberalism all the time. I even interpreted your original top-level comment that I first replied to as defending liberals and liberalism. Were you not? You certainly appear to be complaining in this thread with me that people unfairly rag on liberals.
I see now that it was the same commenter that you linked that made the same point about oil companies being a cartel and not real capitalism in 4 different comments in this post. In any case, that was just an example of people using a general no true Scotsman argument about capitalism. Here’s another commenter making this kind of argument under this post: https://lemmy.zip/post/73218813/29425426
I’ve never noticed a pattern that would resemble a witch-hunt for “secret conservatives” here. I do see a witch-hunt against so-called tankies, and a strong one. I also see people correctly identifying signs that commenters are liberals and complaining about that philosophy.
Put “liberal” in quotes, meaning randos getting accused of being that, and you’d be correct. It’s very common.
We have a very different experience here. I’ve probably blocked 50 users (who demonstrated tankie/other “leftist” zealotry) who expressed hatred and sometimes even death threats after they projected beliefs onto me that I do not hold.
The last time I could’ve been labelled a capitalist was 25 years ago when I knew nothing but propaganda. I am not one. Yet many many users called me that here and declared me a liar if I deny it. This would literally never happen anywhere else. Anywhere else I would be called a leftist. And I live in a very blue city in the US.
Yes, you are absolutely correct. Although it’s actually just devolved into “you disagree with me slightly” on lemmy. I think using the term has zero useful purpose unless we’re talking about politicians who embody the definition from Wikipedia. Even then, because people don’t often actually know what it means, it’s probably limited in usefulness even there.
Thanks. I disagree that it has zero useful purpose though. I happen to think that liberals should be constantly reminded of their contradictory beliefs. Capitalism is fundamentally contrary to most of the other rights listed in that definition. The first liberals that started the philosophy probably didn’t realize this, but we now have the benefit of history to inform us. Present liberals need to eventually realize that they must choose between the two if they want to have a consistent philosophy. That means deciding whether they choose conservatism/fascism or socialism.
The thing is though, I’m gonna guess that 90% of users here would never call themselves liberal nor do they support capitalism. The users I’m taking issue with would declare literally anyone a liberal without any solid basis at all besides some disagreement. I’ve seen it so repeatedly, if you haven’t I couldn’t know how.
I don’t know, I see plenty of people here saying that they’re a liberal, even in this thread. Perhaps they’re not aware of the common definition. Sure, this is the internet, so people are prone to misunderstand or label others. However, I think it’s reasonable to call someone a liberal if they provide clear indications that they are. See how many posts here are saying “but oil companies aren’t real capitalism!”
I don’t see anyone saying they’re a liberal except one dude. And I think they’re using the word like Americans have traditionally for years: “left of center”.
As far as the oil comment… found only one like that also…? https://lemmy.world/comment/26330242
I maintain from years of experience that most people on the platform would be considered very left by the average person on the street. Yet despite that, there seems to be a continual witch-hunt for secret “conservatives”. To me, that’s basically all this post ever was. A signal to the “the real leftists” to say “anyone less than full on socialist causes climate change because they are bad people”. You can either think to yourself “that’s not me so I will ignore it” or you can see it for what it is in this context.
I didn’t mean that a lot of people on this thread call themselves liberal, but on Lemmy in general. I see people defending liberalism all the time. I even interpreted your original top-level comment that I first replied to as defending liberals and liberalism. Were you not? You certainly appear to be complaining in this thread with me that people unfairly rag on liberals.
I see now that it was the same commenter that you linked that made the same point about oil companies being a cartel and not real capitalism in 4 different comments in this post. In any case, that was just an example of people using a general no true Scotsman argument about capitalism. Here’s another commenter making this kind of argument under this post: https://lemmy.zip/post/73218813/29425426
I’ve never noticed a pattern that would resemble a witch-hunt for “secret conservatives” here. I do see a witch-hunt against so-called tankies, and a strong one. I also see people correctly identifying signs that commenters are liberals and complaining about that philosophy.
Put “liberal” in quotes, meaning randos getting accused of being that, and you’d be correct. It’s very common.
We have a very different experience here. I’ve probably blocked 50 users (who demonstrated tankie/other “leftist” zealotry) who expressed hatred and sometimes even death threats after they projected beliefs onto me that I do not hold.
The last time I could’ve been labelled a capitalist was 25 years ago when I knew nothing but propaganda. I am not one. Yet many many users called me that here and declared me a liar if I deny it. This would literally never happen anywhere else. Anywhere else I would be called a leftist. And I live in a very blue city in the US.
I have to bow out on this one.
I’m taking this as a “disengage” reply, so I’m respecting that.