Some US states do not have Good Samaritan laws. This means that you could save someone’s life, they could sue you, and they could win. It’s pretty fucked up.
This sounded strange to me, so I looked it up. This Wikipedia article suggests all US states have a good samaritan law, and some extend that further by requiring bystanders to reasonably provide assistance. However, who is liable and to what extent appears to vary. Additionally, interactions with other state laws could complicate things.
All that said, I admittedly don’t know much about good samaritan laws beyond this article.
Some of those laws are more recent, I believe. I got CPR certified in the 90s and the police officer instructing the course did indeed warn us to be careful about saving people as we could possibly get sued.
If I had to guess, it was a symptom of the sue-everyone-for-everything craze in those days, crossed with state laws that didn’t yet provide explicit protections for good samaritans because you generally don’t try to harm someone who went out of their way to save your life.
FYI if you look at the actual numbers, that frivolous lawsuit situation was manufactured by the media. Lawsuits have been in near continuous decline since that narrative started.
I’m currently certified and we are told that unconscious means consent and once you determine they’re not breathing (only criteria) then you perform cpr. I’ve been certified for over 7 years as a dispatcher and we often provide these exact instructions. Since we deal with the whole of the US we use national protocols which are valid throughout the country (emd epd protocols) and unless you know for SURE they are breathing you perform CPR every time. Doesn’t matter if they have a DNR. Unless of course they just had a seizure then you wait. But if you can’t confirm breathing or you say they’re snoring we are going straight to chest compressions.
I’ve been trained by some of the most knowledgeable people who I was lucky to have the privilege to learn from. This training has served me very well.
The course I took this summer gave similar guidance, and dispelled any worries about getting sued for helping.
Interestingly though, the instructor said we should not provide breaths mouth to mouth without a guard if we suspect drug use, or even just don’t know the person. Apparently fentanyl has changed that landscape.
DNR is for the hospital staff who are legally trained and have time to figure out if it is valid. When seconds count nobody has time to check for fraudulent DNR tags.
Someone calling 911 for a person with a DNR isn’t going to be a good source of information on said DNR. A dispatcher isn’t going to attempt to verify the DNR is valid through the phone with someone that’s panicked, so “just do CPR” is the safe course of action.
If you get a DNR it needs to explained to your family what it means so they at least know what to do. And even if they freak out EMS/a nurse/etc will see the DNR and not continue resuscitation.
I don’t recall specifically, but it was a requirement for a job with the city and taught by the police and county EMTs, so I’d guess the more formal Red Cross one. I didn’t keep it up after I left that job so I’m sure if there was an expiration date, it passed long ago.
I did another one this summer and it expires in two years.
My understanding of it is that CPR has a lot of negative side effects that we’re usually not told about or aware of, like cracking or breaking a rib during compressions.
Not that this is in any way good, but I think some have successfully sued their saviors due to complications from CPR.
I think a law should be passed that says you can’t sue someone for complications of saving your life, but, you know…
@OceanSoap@alienanimals Sounds like it’s time to push for Good Samaritan laws in every state. We have one in California. And yes, there can be side effects, but these aren’t limited to GSs. Medical personnel can inflict them as well (damage with intubation comes to mind), and if the injuries are consistent with life saving measures, they are protected. Why shouldn’t GSs also be covered?
Throw in that CPR is effective in 10% of situations and maybe there are reasons why people don’t act. 10% is wayyy better than 0% so it is always worth trying.
But that only provides legal protection from lawsuits after the fact; generally, they require that you act in a reason way, in the scope of your training (or under direction of say 911 dispatch,)
Some will also mandate that you call 911 immediately- though no state requires more than that
Some US states do not have Good Samaritan laws. This means that you could save someone’s life, they could sue you, and they could win. It’s pretty fucked up.
This sounded strange to me, so I looked it up. This Wikipedia article suggests all US states have a good samaritan law, and some extend that further by requiring bystanders to reasonably provide assistance. However, who is liable and to what extent appears to vary. Additionally, interactions with other state laws could complicate things.
All that said, I admittedly don’t know much about good samaritan laws beyond this article.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_Samaritan_law
Some of those laws are more recent, I believe. I got CPR certified in the 90s and the police officer instructing the course did indeed warn us to be careful about saving people as we could possibly get sued.
If I had to guess, it was a symptom of the sue-everyone-for-everything craze in those days, crossed with state laws that didn’t yet provide explicit protections for good samaritans because you generally don’t try to harm someone who went out of their way to save your life.
FYI if you look at the actual numbers, that frivolous lawsuit situation was manufactured by the media. Lawsuits have been in near continuous decline since that narrative started.
I’m currently certified and we are told that unconscious means consent and once you determine they’re not breathing (only criteria) then you perform cpr. I’ve been certified for over 7 years as a dispatcher and we often provide these exact instructions. Since we deal with the whole of the US we use national protocols which are valid throughout the country (emd epd protocols) and unless you know for SURE they are breathing you perform CPR every time. Doesn’t matter if they have a DNR. Unless of course they just had a seizure then you wait. But if you can’t confirm breathing or you say they’re snoring we are going straight to chest compressions. I’ve been trained by some of the most knowledgeable people who I was lucky to have the privilege to learn from. This training has served me very well.
The course I took this summer gave similar guidance, and dispelled any worries about getting sued for helping.
Interestingly though, the instructor said we should not provide breaths mouth to mouth without a guard if we suspect drug use, or even just don’t know the person. Apparently fentanyl has changed that landscape.
Uhhh, what’s the point of a DNR then? Let me die if I want to, ffs.
DNR is for the hospital staff who are legally trained and have time to figure out if it is valid. When seconds count nobody has time to check for fraudulent DNR tags.
Someone calling 911 for a person with a DNR isn’t going to be a good source of information on said DNR. A dispatcher isn’t going to attempt to verify the DNR is valid through the phone with someone that’s panicked, so “just do CPR” is the safe course of action.
If you get a DNR it needs to explained to your family what it means so they at least know what to do. And even if they freak out EMS/a nurse/etc will see the DNR and not continue resuscitation.
It’s fully possible that the cop instructing the course didn’t know the law at all, especially a federal law.
Do you have expiring CPR qualifications, or are they valid for life?
I don’t recall specifically, but it was a requirement for a job with the city and taught by the police and county EMTs, so I’d guess the more formal Red Cross one. I didn’t keep it up after I left that job so I’m sure if there was an expiration date, it passed long ago.
I did another one this summer and it expires in two years.
Huh Wisconsin is a duty to rescue state
“I didn’t see anything.”
That does seem to be the prevailing attitude in Wisconsin
My understanding of it is that CPR has a lot of negative side effects that we’re usually not told about or aware of, like cracking or breaking a rib during compressions.
Not that this is in any way good, but I think some have successfully sued their saviors due to complications from CPR.
I think a law should be passed that says you can’t sue someone for complications of saving your life, but, you know…
@OceanSoap @alienanimals Sounds like it’s time to push for Good Samaritan laws in every state. We have one in California. And yes, there can be side effects, but these aren’t limited to GSs. Medical personnel can inflict them as well (damage with intubation comes to mind), and if the injuries are consistent with life saving measures, they are protected. Why shouldn’t GSs also be covered?
Throw in that CPR is effective in 10% of situations and maybe there are reasons why people don’t act. 10% is wayyy better than 0% so it is always worth trying.
I’m cpr certified and was told this during training. Maybe it’s not general population knowledge though.
Every state has something.
But that only provides legal protection from lawsuits after the fact; generally, they require that you act in a reason way, in the scope of your training (or under direction of say 911 dispatch,)
Some will also mandate that you call 911 immediately- though no state requires more than that
Can I get some qualifications so I can send them a bill, if this happens?