When was the last time you worked and didn’t get paid for it? Why do you feel like you’re justified to come to a person’s place of work and make them be at your beck and call, but you don’t think that these servants deserve their own food or livelihood?
There’s nothing intelligent or admirable about this behavior. Quite the contrary, it’s simply a disgusting lack of respect for other human beings.
So you agree that they should be paid a living wage. I believe the employer should pay them enough, not customer to pay them on top of the already paying for the food.
Yes, I agree with you. They should be able to make a living wage. Unfortunately, when you refuse to tip you don’t hurt the owner. Instead, you hurt the employee.
You do, but if no one would tip owners would compensate the employees because they must make at least minimum wage.
The fact of the matter is that owners get to pay his employees less by having customers pay for it instead. You can call it tips, but what is really is - it’s the money the employer should have gave them.
And then we can stop the entire ritual of shame and guilt where you tip just to not be judged by everyone around you for being “cheap”, even though you paid for the costs of the food you ordered.
Yes, it’s the money that the owner should have given them, but you’re not solving the problem by stiffing your waiter. You’re just going to make things worse for them.
And that’s the issue - the blame is shifted to the customers. Damned if you do (enforce this terrible system), damned if you don’t (make waiters have less money).
The change need to be systematic and from the root. But it will never happen with so many just accepting the system, and so many more defending it so strongly.
It’s really a cultural problem, and there’s no easy solution. I certainly don’t know how to fix it. I think it would require everyone not tipping or every server everywhere demanding a higher wage.
Honestly, I hate tipping as much as the next guy. If I decide to tip someone I should be able to feel good about it, like I’m giving them a bonus, rather than feeling guilt-tripped or obligated to do it.
Unfortunately, the system is just set up in a way that sucks for both customers and employees, and the only way you can eat in a nice restaurant and not be an asshole is by tipping your server.
Or maybe if everybody stopped tipping and workers went on strike, businesses might actually be forced to pay a living wage instead of telling their employees to beg to get enough money to put food on the table?
Yeah. Punish the people who are living hand to mouth every single day by making them too poor to refuse any work they can get. That oughta teach them not to accept their slave labor. /S
And some of them are. It’s dumb to make assumptions about an entire profession whose wages vary greatly from city to city based on one person you knew.
You ever see a person break down crying on the job because they’re not making enough money and don’t know how they’re going to eat? I have, several times.
I never implied it was “admirable”. I shouldn’t have to supplement a workers shitty pay, so I don’t. What makes a waiter/waitress more entitled to a tip over someone who stocks shelves at a grocery store or works in the fast food industry? Also I’m not American, shocking I know. If an employer isn’t going to pay their staff a proper wage in your country then that’s between the employer and employee
Do you work for free? What if someone came to the place where you work and demanded that you work for them for free? Because that’s exactly what you’re doing to servers in America if you aren’t tipping them, and I can assure you that no one on the planet wants to work without pay. It is not a personal opinion, it’s an objective fact.
Also, I’d like to point out the hilarious irony of you making a blanket statement about all Americans by claiming that’s what Americans do. The projection is palpable.
I said typical, as in average or stereotype. Was more a jab/joke than anything, but you do you. Again, it’s not my responsibility to make up for shit pay. So instead of being mad at how fundamentally broken the system is, you’re mad at people who don’t tip a very specific industry/job. You’re really something. Well done.
You’re the one who’s convinced himself that he’s justified in forcing people to work without pay, because you’ve decided it shouldn’t be the way it really is. In other words, a real (entitled) goddamn asshole. If there’s a hell, I sincerely hope that you end up in it, being forced to work for free every day for eternity. It’s what you’ve done to others, so you’ve fucking earned it.
They get paid. It’s in this thread multiple times from multiple people. There’s likely a special place for me in hell, I won’t argue that. But I hope you have enough self reflection to realize corporate ball suckers like yourself also have a special place down there with me. Have a great day.
When was the last time you worked and didn’t get paid for it? Why do you feel like you’re justified to come to a person’s place of work and make them be at your beck and call, but you don’t think that these servants deserve their own food or livelihood?
There’s nothing intelligent or admirable about this behavior. Quite the contrary, it’s simply a disgusting lack of respect for other human beings.
So you agree that they should be paid a living wage. I believe the employer should pay them enough, not customer to pay them on top of the already paying for the food.
Yes, I agree with you. They should be able to make a living wage. Unfortunately, when you refuse to tip you don’t hurt the owner. Instead, you hurt the employee.
You do, but if no one would tip owners would compensate the employees because they must make at least minimum wage.
The fact of the matter is that owners get to pay his employees less by having customers pay for it instead. You can call it tips, but what is really is - it’s the money the employer should have gave them.
And then we can stop the entire ritual of shame and guilt where you tip just to not be judged by everyone around you for being “cheap”, even though you paid for the costs of the food you ordered.
Yes, it’s the money that the owner should have given them, but you’re not solving the problem by stiffing your waiter. You’re just going to make things worse for them.
And that’s the issue - the blame is shifted to the customers. Damned if you do (enforce this terrible system), damned if you don’t (make waiters have less money).
The change need to be systematic and from the root. But it will never happen with so many just accepting the system, and so many more defending it so strongly.
It’s really a cultural problem, and there’s no easy solution. I certainly don’t know how to fix it. I think it would require everyone not tipping or every server everywhere demanding a higher wage.
Honestly, I hate tipping as much as the next guy. If I decide to tip someone I should be able to feel good about it, like I’m giving them a bonus, rather than feeling guilt-tripped or obligated to do it.
Unfortunately, the system is just set up in a way that sucks for both customers and employees, and the only way you can eat in a nice restaurant and not be an asshole is by tipping your server.
Boycot the restaurant
Or maybe if everybody stopped tipping and workers went on strike, businesses might actually be forced to pay a living wage instead of telling their employees to beg to get enough money to put food on the table?
Yes and if everyone agreed to just stop fighting we’d have world peace but we’re talking about actually achievable goals.
Yeah. Punish the people who are living hand to mouth every single day by making them too poor to refuse any work they can get. That oughta teach them not to accept their slave labor. /S
Hand to mouth? lol you haven’t met my ex who was a waitress at a mid level sit down restaurant.
That removed was competing nicely with me on income back then when I was a junior software developer.
Not everyone working in food service is one day away from a homeless shelter.
And some of them are. It’s dumb to make assumptions about an entire profession whose wages vary greatly from city to city based on one person you knew.
You ever see a person break down crying on the job because they’re not making enough money and don’t know how they’re going to eat? I have, several times.
I never implied it was “admirable”. I shouldn’t have to supplement a workers shitty pay, so I don’t. What makes a waiter/waitress more entitled to a tip over someone who stocks shelves at a grocery store or works in the fast food industry? Also I’m not American, shocking I know. If an employer isn’t going to pay their staff a proper wage in your country then that’s between the employer and employee
Ok, so stay out of American restaurants. We don’t want you in them.
Typical American, grouping an entire nation into a personal opinion. Well done.
Do you work for free? What if someone came to the place where you work and demanded that you work for them for free? Because that’s exactly what you’re doing to servers in America if you aren’t tipping them, and I can assure you that no one on the planet wants to work without pay. It is not a personal opinion, it’s an objective fact.
Also, I’d like to point out the hilarious irony of you making a blanket statement about all Americans by claiming that’s what Americans do. The projection is palpable.
I said typical, as in average or stereotype. Was more a jab/joke than anything, but you do you. Again, it’s not my responsibility to make up for shit pay. So instead of being mad at how fundamentally broken the system is, you’re mad at people who don’t tip a very specific industry/job. You’re really something. Well done.
You’re the one who’s convinced himself that he’s justified in forcing people to work without pay, because you’ve decided it shouldn’t be the way it really is. In other words, a real (entitled) goddamn asshole. If there’s a hell, I sincerely hope that you end up in it, being forced to work for free every day for eternity. It’s what you’ve done to others, so you’ve fucking earned it.
They get paid. It’s in this thread multiple times from multiple people. There’s likely a special place for me in hell, I won’t argue that. But I hope you have enough self reflection to realize corporate ball suckers like yourself also have a special place down there with me. Have a great day.
Once again, you’re not fighting corporations, owners, “the man”, etc. You’re hurting workers.
It depends on where they’re from though. Outside of America we don’t have such a reliance on tipping
That is true. I’m really only talking about America in this context.