Your Windows 10 PC will soon be ‘junk’ - users told to resist Microsoft deadline::If you’re still using Windows 10 and don’t want to upgrade to Windows 11 any time soon you might want to sign a new online petition
Or just try linux. It’s pretty great
I love Linux. I have it installed on 3 machines, have been using it for over 3 years, and would install it right away if I ever got a new computer.
A couple weeks ago, I was feeling pretty exhausted and just wanted to play a game thru Proton on my laptop. I got it running, but it was unplayable because it was using my integrated GPU instead of my discrete one. I spent the night switching compositors, cables, and drivers, but none of it fixed the issue.
The next day, feeling exhausted from fruitless debugging, I tried to launch another game via Proton that I knew had worked in the past, but it crashed on launch. I spent the whole day going thru the same steps I did the day before, but also consulting ProtonDB and trying software that would force usage of the dgpu.
The next day, I installed Windows 10 to an external hard drive and spent the day debloating it. Drivers got installed automatically, I downloaded both games on Steam, and they just worked. So I guess I now dual-boot Windows just for the games that don’t work thru Proton. Loading game worlds and booting up take ~75% longer, but that’s to be expected because it’s running on a 4 year old HDD connected over a USB cable.
As mentioned earlier, I love Linux a lot, and if all games had native binaries or Proton worked 100% I’d format that god-forsaken hard drive. But when real life has got me down, I don’t need Linux to get me down further. I don’t like Windows, and I feel incredibly dirty whenever I press F7 on boot to get to Windows. But when my choices are “spend 8 hours on fruitless quest to get >2fps” and “press play button”, I’m going to take the path of least resistance.
That’s the thing. I love to use Linux for work, but when I don’t want to tinker it sometimes sucks for gaming.
iGPU+dGPU, esp with Nvidia is pretty bad on Linux. It’s pretty flawless these days if you’re using only one vendor and it isn’t Nvidia.
Don’t know what you are talking about. I use an Nvidia GPU with a Wayland compositor/Window manager (Hyprland to be exact) and I’ve never experienced any issues whatsoever.
I have an external monitor that runs at 144Hz, but a while ago I realized because it was connected over HDMI, it was limited to 60Hz (for some weird reason). So I bought a DisplayPort cable, and after plugging it in the screen was flickering/artifacting in some weird way that I haven’t seen it do on X11 or Windows with the same cable. So as a result I’ve had to reluctantly switched back to i3 for daily use
Sure, use whatever works for you
Yep. And then there’s gamepass. I vastly vastly prefer working and using Linux day to day, but games, man. Man’s gotta be able to game after a long day at work and I wasted literally a week of after work hours trying and failing to get Starfield to run on Proton.
What game was it?
The first game mentioned was Bille Bust Up. I liked the demo that was off of Steam (and it ran fine using the proton-call command), so I subscribed to the developer’s Patreon (which gives a Steam key) and it wouldn’t use my dgpu.
The second game was A Hat in Time.
Thanks for sharing. I’m sorry to hear you had trouble. Both games are rated as gold on ProtonDB. So, I am surprised you had trouble with them.
My experience has been the opposite. Everything has worked surprisingly well. Do you by chance use an Nvidia gpu?
Yep, Nvidia gpu. At the time I bought it I wasn’t aware of their reputation for Linux support, and I bought my laptop from System76 (with Pop!_OS, because Nvidia drivers are more “just works” on it). I’ve had a fairly good experience with all of it, but the next computer I buy will definitely have an AMD GPU.
I think this is the first time I’ve been fully unable to get the dgpu working. Every other time it’s just worked or worked with tweaking
Nvidia laptop by the sounds of it?
Anything with an AMD GPU is going to have a better time (or even just a dedicated Nvidia GPU in a desktop).
I would probably rather get a gaming console for the TV to game.
Why not a steam deck?
Tbf that really depends on the kind of games you like playing.
Sure. As soon as Linux doesn’t require memorizing hundreds of commands for basic use, and actually runs the software you need to use, I’m sure it will become very popular.
Hundreds of commands is just not true with many distros. Everything is gui based these days. The command line is worth getting familiar with, but it’s not necessary.
Hasn’t been my experience. Usually needed at the bare minimum just to install and uninstall the few programs that do run in Linux.
If you haven’t checked out linux in 5+ years, I recommend that you check out something user-friendly like Mint. No commands needed!
Been using it for the last 2 years. That’s how I know.
Sure ok, can you give us some examples from the hundreds of commands you need to memorise for basic use?
The time is now then!
Nah fuck you, I’m staying with 10 as long as I can, then I’m switching to linux
Try it on an external drive. I did that a couple years ago just to fool around and see if I liked it, within a week it was my main OS and I’ve barely used Windows since.
Lmao. This article is junk. Yew I’m sure millions of people are going to suddenly dump their PC’s because they don’t get security updates. Most people don’t follow this at all and don’t care.
And no, they’re not going to magically jump to Linux as much as the Lemmy circlejerk loves to believe. If they know enough about security they probably already have looked into Linux and decided against it.
The article is typical clickbait from the Express, that’s bottom of the barrel trash.
Companies are a tad different and this could be a big problem with adhering to security and patches. It’s a big problem with companies doing this engineered obsolescence (stares at Apple) and making products that work trash.
If there’s one thing I’ve learned about banks during my time as a developer, it’s that they’re on the oldest version of windows they can get to run.
This, many businesses will consider Linux for various devices.
It’ll likely start as “Oh we can use it to deploy for, this this and this, and avoid putting Windows here and here, to save X dollars” as certain applications in business are not available on Linux, but others will be. It will be a slow transition in the business world. But they will do it.
Why would they decide against it? I understand security and thats part of why i switched
When asked to choose between convenience and security, a lot of people will choose convenience. Staying on the computer you already have as long as it seems to work fine is very convenient. I still occasionally see computers running Windows 7 for no reason other than that the owner can’t be bothered to make a change.
Those people are lazy and really not thinking about their security imo but whatever its their data not mine
As I Linux user I can’t wait for the flood of cheap perfectly good hardware from these idiots
Bonus points is that they’ll probably be the last gasp of hardware consistently supporting S3 sleep too
Hey, can you elaborate? I switched my couple year old Windows 11 laptop to Linux a few months back, and no matter what I can’t get sleep to work. After doing research, apparently this is a common issue with Linux on laptops.
I eventually got hibernate to work, so I have it do that instead, but regular sleep would be nice…
Yep! So I can’t say necessarily what your specific problem is but it’s probably related to the big push towards “S0 Low Power Idle”, or “Modern Standby/Sleep”.
In a nutshell, MS and related peeps wanted to go after the always-connected, updated info, instant-on nature of the iPads and other mobile devices. I would guess Apple’s “Power Nap” functionality on their Mac was on their mind too. The effort resulted in the Windows 8-era Connected Standby as it was known then.
They have been pushing hard on S0 as the next version of sleep since. Who “they” is I am not entirely sure - it could be upstream at MS, Intel, most likely but the end result regardless is that OEM’s have been switching to Modern Standby.
But fortunately, some machines have a choice. My ThinkPad X1 Extreme Gen 4 has a BIOS toggle to switch between S0 and ol reliable S3 sleep (labeled Linux sleep) - no Windows re-installation needed despite the warning on it. Other machines might not like the XPS 9510 and Latitude 7210 2-in-1 I had previously. (I got rid of the former due to warranty issues and suspect build quality, the latter because I needed more oomph and less portability)
I was losing 8% battery an hour in the 7210 and I wasted hours troubleshooting only to find out that the M.2 drive I installed was somehow “not compatible” with Modern Standby, after that was sorted it was the only Modern Standby experience I had that was mostly acceptable.
My new work laptop is a ThinkPad T14 Gen 3 and there is no option to enable S3 so I am on that Modern Standby train involuntarily for this one. Anyways, after the battery reliably drained several times in a few hours of sleep, with the power light pulsing indicating it was sleeping - I was able to get the company service desk to enable my hibernate setting and I use that exclusively so I don’t have to keep it plugged in while traveling to save my state.
Sometimes that toggle is removed in a BIOS update so you’ll have to research that too, and what version to install if it occurs.
So yea, S3 is going out of fashion and taking reliable sleep with it. Lot of complaining out there about battery drain, overheating in bags, OEM’s recommend just using hibernate, Linus Tech Tips had a video ranting about switching to Macs over it and supposedly heard from an MS engineer but I don’t think Microsoft will be able to truly fix it, it’s been years.
If my laptop dies, I’ll probably get another like it or maybe take the opportunity to jump to a Steam Deck and maybe an ARM Mac. Not sure yet. When the time to jump to Linux comes in a couple years, maybe I’ll just get a desktop.
Oh wow, thanks for the in depth reply. Am I incorrect in assuming that they want the “Modern Standby” to be standard, because that mode means the device is always “connected” despite being asleep?
There must be a reason that a corporation would push for a seemingly inferior technology, and it’s basically 100% of the time about money.
I’m just speculating but I would say that’s “not wrong”.
The network connected part of Modern Standby can actually be disabled reasonably easily in command prompt and it does come up as a possible band-aid to battery drain issues. (In my applications it didn’t help a noticeable amount but at least it’s there.)
When Modern Standby works, it works… okay. I mentioned getting it working on my 7210 2-in-1 after swapping for a proper SSD (eyeroll) and while it still used more power than S3, I could live with 1-2% of battery loss in an hour a lot more easily than 7-10% and I leaned on hibernate more as well since so many of us have been burned by Modern Standby when it doesn’t work.
I’m sure that while having the user computer being connected more is a net positive for telemetry and data collection but I think the drive towards it is more of a semi-misguided effort to compete with the sheer instant-on, always-updated nature of smartphones, iPads, Android tablets, etc. much in the vein of how Windows has been pivoting left-and-right to fit onto tablets the past decade but not completely recognizing that people often use desktops and laptops differently.
So on paper it’s not inferior at all. Instant on, instant off, minimal power use increase, the computer can ring when calls are received, it can keep email up-to-date, sound alerts for reminders all while sleeping whereas it’s completely dead in S3 save for RAM being powered.
Sounds cool, it’s high-tech, I thought it was neat when I first heard about it especially since Apple’s Power Nap feature was around for years already and did nice housekeeping functions while the machine was sleeping - albeit within power use and thermal limits.
Microsoft and OEM’s just can’t seem to make it reliable enough to be the slam-dunk it theoretically can be nor do it’s benefits really shine in my use case since I sit down to use my Windows machines and nothing I use really can take advantage of Modern Standby. And since S3 is increasingly being pulled out, Linux has to deal with their shenanigans too.
Edit: Also I would expect ARM Windows machines to sleep better or at least be efficient enough to not worry, but I can’t say for sure.
Amen brother
People will just keep trucking on Windows 10.
I’ve been to the swap meet prices are already falling for older PCs.
I mean, it won’t let me. Windows Update inists my PC doesn’t meet the minimum spec, and I’m not inclined to argue with it.
#GleefulCompliance
Just follow this guide and all of your problems will be gone
But refusing to upgrade me to 11 is an anti-problem…
Is it the UEFI security thing?
The day i had ads on my start page i immidiately uninstalled windows. I installed some linux distro its been like three years and ive finally settled on arch. it was hard but fuck ads on the start page and i feel smarter for it
When you swap distros, how do you manage all your files and settings? Do you just save your files externally and start from scratch every time you change a distro?
how do you manage all your files and settings?
I don’t. I just use a separate drive for /home. And since I just prefer KDE no matter which system I’m using, all my files, settings, layouts, panels, etc are exactly the same whenever I switch out the OS.
Typically your personal files and app settings are stored somewhere in your user home folder, eg under
/home/bob/. Ideally you’ve set up your system in a way so that the entire/home/folder is stored on its own disk or partition at least. That let’s you boot up a different distro while using the same home directory. But even if you haven’t set it up separately from the rest of the system, you can still manually copy all those files.Not every single application setting is transferable between distros as they sometimes use different versions but generally it works well. Many apps also let you manually export profiles or settings and reimport them elsewhere later. Or they have online synchronization baked in.
So in my previous experience I never get prompted to create separate partition, but I have seen others use this method in the past, however this should probably be a step in any Linux install wizard.
It should be offered as an option really.
One caveat is that you need to think ahead about how much space you want to assign to each partition. You could end up with your
/home/partition being full while the system partition still has plenty. Or vice versa. You can manually readjust the boundaries but it requires some understanding and can’t be done on the fly by a non-technical user. By contrast if everything’s stored on the same partition you never have to worry about this.You can, by the way, manually recreate this set up even after the initial set up although it will require lots of free space to shuffle around files (or some external storage to temporarily hold them). Basically what you do is create a new empty partition, copy all your
/home/stuff there and then configure your system to always mount that partition as the/home/directory when it boots. Files are just files after all and the operating system doesn’t really care where they come from as long as the content is correct. Once you got it working you can delete the originals and free up the space to be used otherwise.
You can have a separate partition for your files so that you change only your OS. Even with windows. This way you’ll always keep your files and just need to customize your distro and reinstall your apps when you change between distros
Yeah i kept my files on a seperate drive and just wiped the one with the os. for settings i was trying a different distro and desktop enviroment so those where always a bit different and i started from scratch
I was already using Linux a lot of the time when Windows 7 was out, and seeing Microsoft push ads in the start menu, as well as all the other trash and pointless changes that they included with Windows 8+ just confirmed my decision to leave the Windows ecosystem.
ive finally settled on arch.
What are you, some kind of Linux prodigy?
It’s not like he’s compiling Linux from scratch on day one. Arch is pretty well supported and has a package manager.
arch is basic. It’s just minimalise by default.
It has an amazing wiki, extremely active and helpful user forums, and an installer (i think now) or at least a massively helpfully customised shell for initial setup.
you can install arch and make it look like mint or whatever easily, then the only difference is pacman and the amazing AUR
Lol i hear this alot about arch users and as a newbie i dont get it. It has been the easiest for me to understand, maybe its the documentation idk i started with endavourOS as well which is a great beginner OS for arch IMO
EndeavourOS isn’t pure arch. (I don’t mean this in an elitist way. Use whatever is best for you.) Pure arch doesn’t come with a desktop, so it sucks for new users.
I would agree but most people dont even know that a DE is different then an OS. I do plain arch now i was just saying it was a good starting point
EndeavorOS has been a great experience for me as well. Also KDE Plasma and now Wayland.
I started with an Arch-based distro and haven’t looked back (EndeavorOS. Though I guess it’s kind of like Arch easy mode). I have a family member that has been daily driving Linux for over a decade, so that was very helpful during the transition. But after a week or two, I haven’t needed his help at all.
My laptop that previously ran Windows 11 is faster than ever.
Once ALVR becomes even remotly usable on Linux im wiping my windows partition and going full Linux (I’m already using it for everything exept VR)
The next Steam OS device is supposedly aimed at VR. I can’t imagine it launching without ALVR.
It sounds like they have beta support for Linux, so it seems like it’s getting there.
Nah, fuck it, I’m switching to Linux.
Yep. Gaming is starting to work on Linux, so I will move to Linux once Microsoft cancels 10.
11 has nothing more than more telemetry and tracking going for it. Gaming is slower, so why would I upgrade for a worse experience.
I play old games still anyways. Linux is more secure than Windows 11 anyways. I won’t upgrade to 11, and turned off TPM in BIOS so 11 won’t automatically install.
Next computer of mine will definitely be running Linux. Only thing I’d ever need windows for is some oddly specific software that won’t work on Linux because I’m too dumb to get working properly.
Removed by mod
Sounds like a good time to give Linux a try!
I often play old games that have compatibility issues with windows 10. Most recently FEAR required a .dll from a site for a stable framerate.
People keep saying “gaming works” on Linux but are they talking about modern games? Do old games “just work?” I have very little free time to fart about with fixing too many issues with an old game. How well does this stuff work?
Old games are likely to work better, as new games are likely to use new features or behaviour which aren’t yet handled properly by Wine/Proton.
And yet Proton/Wine are able to handle unique fixes for some new games to make them work even better on Linux.
Check protondb for reports on whether a specific (steam) game runs.
In my experience, pretty much everything that doesn’t have anticheat works. I can’t remember the last time a game didn’t work fine, from stuff so old it stopped working in Windows Vista to day 1 AAA titles. Even DOS stuff is playable with DOSBox.
Just be aware, Linux is not windows. If you try to use it like windows, you will only experience pain. It’s not hard, especially with mainstream distros like Ubuntu or Mint, but you really should invest at least a bit of effort into learning how the system works and how to use it properly.
Just be aware, Linux is not windows.
As a funny aside, the reverse is also true. My first IT job that involved system administration I kept trying to treat the windows servers like I would Linux servers and that just doesn’t work so well. Especially if you’re making heavy use of powershell sessions and the administrative capabilities of powershell it can be really jarring when it works like Linux until it doesn’t
Proton is amazing. There are several games I’ve played on my Linux laptop that have Linux versions, and they don’t run as well as playing it with Proton.
Check out protondb
As long as the game isn’t a title thats using something bleeding edge, it will work day one. And as long as the game isn’t using an non proton compatible anti-cheat, it should work. Unless said devs arbitrarily decided not to tick the “proton compatible” box cause of some hard-headed bullshit.
I would say old games work better also get Steamtinkerlaunch which makes fucking around easy
If the game isnt steam just add as non steam game and bang steam will handle the rest
I had great experiences with old games on Linux. Mostly they work better than on a modern Windows system. For Example Neverwinter Nights 2. Under Windows movement is jittery on fast CPUs. There is a community patch for that thankfully. Under Linux it just works with WINE (the patch is advisable for other reasons there too). Also loading times are blazingly fast under WINE and Linux. On my HDD PC 1 second vs 50 on Windows. Now with a NVME SSD, Windows also only takes 2 seconds.
Of course Wine/Proton is not perfect, I still have a dualboot system for that. But I boot to Windows very rarely these days. When I do I am hit with so many slow updates, that I don’t get to my game. Maybe I should stop doing them and cut of its network access.
Really old games tend to be more difficult. For a relative I set up a VM with Win98 as the performance impact won’t hurt the games, some even benefit. (I believe the games where Safecracker and Theme Park) Even older than that DosBox and ScummVM work perfectly.
)leave aside old games , despite what Lemmy Linux Community have you believe, even new version of many s/w don’t work with Linux , package managers are crap and “everything is easy with terminal” is a lie. I am not fan of MS either but Linux just does not work.
Steam works in Linux, guy. The functionality of buying/downloading/playing games doesn’t change between Windows and Linux. There’s nothing additionally complicated about it (aside from occasionally switching from regular Proton to GE-Proton for better performance, and that’s 3 clicks).
Go to Linux Lemmy and search for Minecraft. There was a post few days ago on how to run it in Linux. Nobody had answer in how to run it natively nobody. It was not far long that Linux on any version had problems accessing YouTube b cause of flash, and installing flash was no easy job with multiple dependencies. Now it may work here and there may be 80% but as easy as windows .no way , it’s not a everyday OS who don’t want to touch Terminal ever.
You don’t need to run it natively, it runs just fine on Linux with Proton. I’m not sure you understand how far it’s come since Steam Deck. Dwarf Fortress plays better on my Linux laptop using Proton than using the Linux runtime version. Like way better.
I don’t care about Minecraft, so I don’t know specifics. But why would I search lemmy for a solution like that? A quick Google search shows Minecraft is playable on Steam Deck, which means it’s playable (probably better/easier) on a Linux desktop. It’s a very popular game, so there were even hotfixes to Proton in the past to make sure it works
Your PC will soon be be junk if you do not want to try out Linux.
Your PC is already junk if it runs Windows. But you can easily fix that by installing Linux.
Just in case you don’t want to go to the tabloid hell that is the Express Petition Link pirg.org
It’s such an awful site, and always surprises me when I see it being used/shared. Surely when it comes to tech there are better resources than a tabloid for it.
There is no way they don’t offer extended support for Windows 10. Many PCs can’t get to windows 11. Imagine all the malware infected machines that will be out there.
I assume eventually they’ll drop the UEFI security requirement, which is why 90% of the “can’t” cases occur.
Microsoft products are all about getting infected with malware. That’s the whole point of this company.
Wait I have a Windows 8 computer which stills works fine?
It does, but it’s no longer receiving security updates and therefore if there’s any vulnerabilities, especially critical ones, they will not be patched.
If it remains offline you shouldn’t really have much of a problem but it’s advised that you move to a more modern OS sooner rather than later if that’s online.
Honestly it is actually a tablet like computer which I use for reading stuff mostly, so I am not gonna pay money for something I already paid money for. I find the idea of having to pay for a new OS after I have already paid for it quite obscene (my main computer is in Linux). Imagine buying a phone and then having to pay money each time for the newer Android version, it is ridiculous. I would install Linux on it but I am not %100 sure I would be able to get some hardware such as touch screen running.
I would say its a more mixed bag for most consumer level end users. On one hand yes, no more updates. On the other hand, no more new vulnerability and day 0 exploits. I think the risk is also mitigated a bit by now using a non standard OS. Unless someone is targeting this user individually who is running anything targeting windows 8 (Most would target the biggest pool of users)?
For an organization, yeah big risk. For some person? eh, just back up often and make sure your two factor etc. is working.
Windows 8 does not constitute a non standard OS. It was at one point in this category, and the majority of successful system compromises have been from older software. This is a big risk to an individual.
Windows 8 is currently 0.32% of the user base according to this https://gs.statcounter.com/os-version-market-share/windows/desktop/worldwide How does that make it a non standard OS in the past but now standard?
People fear getting targeted by some hacker out of a 90’s movie but this is not the reality today. Users are mainly phished and scammed today because that is what gets the most money with the least effort. I still have yet to hear of any campaigns to use exploits for individuals because sending out millions of fake ransom emails does the job better then actually compromising a user for a fraction of the work.
The other part of this that bugs me is the assumption of safety in new software, that is just not true. People need to backup things they care about and not assume everything they do online has no risks. Your best defence for say; online banking is to simply be vigilant and talk to your bank if something looks wrong. If you have a credit card it comes with insurance for this very reason.
Because much malware already out there utilises existing exploits - so its market share is irrlevant.
Not market share. One singular soild example.
New vulnerabilities can still be discovered. And if an especially nasty one pops up they very well could run a campeign, using that new exploit, to target that OS version.
Happen to have any examples in the last 5 years? Because I see lots of fear mongering but have not seen or heard of a non scam/phishing attack in years.
First off, saying that a system will never have a new vulnerability discovered is beyond naive. It’s the whole reason LTS versions of products exist. To be on a version that constantly is kept up with as new vulnerabilities are discovered. Just because you don’t see them and don’t run in those circles doesn’t mean they don’t exist. So saying something like “there won’t be any new vulnerabilities” is just wrong.
And sure. Here’s a list I found after 10 seconds of research.
And here’s another broken down by year, citing 62 found this year.
First off, saying that a system will never have a new vulnerability discovered is beyond naive. It’s the whole reason LTS versions of products exist. To be on a version that constantly is kept up with as new vulnerabilities are discovered. Just because you don’t see them and don’t run in those circles doesn’t mean they don’t exist. So saying something like “there won’t be any new vulnerabilities” is just wrong.
I never said that.
I am asking of the vulnerability used on end users not a list of what white hats have found. (My argument is not that these old OS are safe just not the OH GOD levels of unsafe).
You said there would be no new vulnerabilities. https://mander.xyz/comment/4923077
“On one hand yes, no more updates. On the other hand, no more new vulnerability and day 0 exploits.”
You said exactly that.
Also these are not all found by white hats. And those vulnerabilities are what is used in an attack. Those are the tools and gaps being exploited. And that list always grows. I’m beginning to think you don’t understand security well enough to be making these claims.
That just means more cheap, used hardware available for us Linux users in a couple years.
