- cross-posted to:
- fediverse@lemmy.ml
- cross-posted to:
- fediverse@lemmy.ml
Imagine a world without platform lock-in, where no ban or billionaire could take down your social network. That’s what ActivityPub has planned.
Imagine a world without platform lock-in, where no ban or billionaire could take down your social network. That’s what ActivityPub has planned.
I have my skepticisms about this whole thing. While I know the answer is “they will be defederated”, what if one of the big ones, like lemmy.world or lemmy.ml get huge, then sell out to something like Meta?
We lost 3rd party apps and we are mourning the biggest breakup we’ve ever had with reddit. Say the server you’ve had your account on for so long and all your content gets taken over by a giant with strategically placed adds that are upvoted by bot armies for visibility. They may get defederated, but that means Meta just came in and destroyed a huge chunk of users accounts while gaining some ad revenue for a bit until the community dies. Everyone has to actively pack up their shit and move to another instance. I guess the loyalty to an account is less with a lack of account karma so it wouldn’t burn as bad.
You would lose all your subscribed communities when you are forced to move out. That would suck. Too bad you couldn’t export like a .db file from your account on the way out and upload it to another account on another instance. Possibly some sort of encrypted key so you can auto add as a mod to any community you were modding on your previous account. No clue if that makes any sense. Kinda Like a lemmy “Go-Bag”?
I don’t know, just thinking ahead of the shenanigans that’s going to happen if this really starts making a dent in huge corporations user counts.
Edit: I know there is likely no way to ever be able to move your content or comments. The logistics of remapping all of that to another account is likely impossible. Not sure how it works on the backend, but I’m pretty sure your home instance keeps track of your profiles history from your perspective, and all the instances you comment or post on only have record of where it came from. i.e. your username@instance, if your home instance where your profile is gets defederated, the only record of your existence is your scattered posts throughout the fediverse. And scanning the whole fediverse for your content from a new account you set up would be impossible. Even if your instance is not defederated and you just want to move it would still take editing the posting username to your new username on every comment you made. I guess that would be possible, but content is going to come and go as instances come and go anyways. It just is what it is, that is the downside of decentralization.
I wonder how it does work on the backend? Does your profile on your home instance save a copy of all of your content across the fediverse? Or does it just save the address to the post? If an instance you posted on dissappears, does any evidence of it exist in your post history? Or does it dissappear?
I guess the problem I am trying to articulate is that the fediverse is decentralized, thats the point. However your profile is centralized to one single instance.
Mastondon does allow you to export your profiles and set them up on a different instance; I reckon some folks will figure out a solution on how to easily jump ship.
This is one of the biggest things I think Lemmy needs. You should be able to create a backup of your profile and export/import it into another instance. That way if something happens or you have a problem with the instance admins you can migrate with no loss or minimal loss to your account.
i’ll be honest hearing lemmy while being on kbin threw me into a loop, made me wonder if i was in a lemmy community and not a kbin magazine lmao. i gotta get used to this.
But yeah, both Lemmy and Kbin need the same flexibility of Mastodon. The more easily one can move, the less likely megacorps will see value in gobbling up instances. Long-term goal might be cross-platform profile compatibility, but right now that’s a pipe dream.
To be fair, kbin doesn’t label things very well right now. I’m using both, and Lemmy makes it far more clear where a post is coming from.
That’s why we need to decentralize. If there’s 100 communities over 50 servers, then it doesn’t matter which website goes down or defederates. It’s only if everyone stays on one or two instances that the fediverse breaks.
Over on mastodon, big instances have gone down, people notice but it isnt the end of the world.
I hope I’m wrong, but… I think network effects could lead to a single instance becoming dominant and therefore vulnerable to such a takeover/sellout. I’m less sure about this, but perhaps non-technical users don’t understand the concept of federated instances and flock to a single one. Perhaps there are other tangible benefits of everyone being on a single instance. Just because the protocol allows for decentralization, doesn’t mean it will naturally happen. E.g. How many email users are on Microsoft exchange/outlook, Gmail, and Yahoo?
I love the concept of your own data being portable, but am afraid there might be other factors that somehow naturally lead to centralization. Please change my mind!
The biggest risk is if all the most active communities end up centralized on a handful of the biggest instances like they seem to be right now, that means a bad actor would only have to buy up those instances to control almost all discussion on lemmy / kbin.
However, it would much easier for mods to migrate their community to an uncompromised instance than it would be to migrate to a new site completely. Jumping from reddit to lemmy / kbin, users have to abandon their old reddit accounts, move to a completely new website with a completely new interface, and start over from scratch. Jumping from one lemmy / kbin instance to another, users would just have to unsubscribe from the old community and resubscribe to the new one.
I think without account karma the loyalty to the account would be less for the average person. The more annoying part is the communities you’ve subscribed to and finding them again. I think a simple download of a list that automates resubscribing on a new account would ease that issue for most people.
For an active user would be that you lose access to communities you created. That is a real logistical problem. I started on lemmy.ml and crelated a community then realized that lemmy.world ran a lot smoother (at the time) and moved. I luckily still have access to my original account so I was able to appoint my new account as a mod. So problem solved. If your instance splodes you lose that ability. But likely your sub went with it too anyway.
I guess the real problem I am identifying here is while the fediverse itself is decentralized, your account isn’t. It is locked onto one instance and the fediverse is volatile.
Maybe add an ability to attach your account on 2 or 3 instances and keep them synced? If one goes rogue then you have a backup that’s still on the fediverse? You can then defederate yourself from one if needed.
Idk.
I guess running a small private instance just for yourself is the best answer.
I mean I can’t be the only one who doesn’t enjoy the idea of setting up a new account if the ship you picked in the beginning sinks a few years later. You make it sound so simple but at least to me it would be a huge drag.
My POV is a bit different than most people, because I built my own ship, and I reach out to other instances using it.
Because I agree, I don’t want to be relying on someone else to maybe grace me with a fediverse account.
What would selling out to Meta look like?
Letting Facebook host in return for ads.
Not only ads. Less privacy.
What privacy? Everything here is it in the open for everyone to see
Facebook gathers geolocations etc. that are not in the open.