• usernamesAreTricky@lemmy.mlOP
      33·
      6 months ago

      and a well rounded vegan diet is not cheap.

      Not the person you are replying to, but want to counter that part specifically. The cost is actually usually the other way around. It’s much more of a privilege to consume large amounts of meat and dairy

      From a modeling study looking at healthy plant-based diets:

      It found that in high-income countries:

      • Vegan diets were the most affordable and reduced food costs by up to one third.

      • Vegetarian diets were a close second.

      • Flexitarian diets with low amounts of meat and dairy reduced costs by 14%.

      • By contrast, pescatarian diets increased costs by up to 2%.

      https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2021-11-11-sustainable-eating-cheaper-and-healthier-oxford-study

      From some real world spending data

      Based on primary data (n = 1040) collected through an online survey, representative of the Portuguese population, through logistic regressions, it was possible to conclude that plant-based consumers, particularly vegan, are associated with lower food expenditures compared to omnivorous consumers. In fact, plant-based consumers are shown to spend less than all other consumers assessed

      https://agrifoodecon.springeropen.com/articles/10.1186/s40100-022-00224-9

      Compared to meat eaters, results show that “true” vegetarians do indeed report lower food expenditures

      https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0921800915301488?via%3Dihub —(looking at the US)

        • usernamesAreTricky@lemmy.mlOP
          19·
          6 months ago

          People on plant-based diets tend not to eat a ton of plant-based meats, and lower income people are esspecially less likely to be relying on them because of cost?

          I don’t follow what you are saying about not being applicable to the US, and UK. Those countries are the modeling study most applies to and shows lower costs?

          Additionally it’s worth mentining if we look at other data, lower-income people are most likely to be vegan and vegetarian

          Meanwhile, lower-income Americans (7%) are about twice as likely as middle- (4%) and upper-income (3%) Americans to be vegetarians . https://news.gallup.com/poll/510038/identify-vegetarian-vegan.aspx

            • usernamesAreTricky@lemmy.mlOP
              9·
              6 months ago

              That’s what the earlier sources looking at real world spending data did… they saw lower costs for people on plant-based diets

              I am again confused why we’re talking about bread here when that isn’t affected by a plant-based or not plant-based diet

      • snazzles@lemm.ee
        2·
        6 months ago

        Do you know if it’s reasonable / practicable to be vegeterian while doing keto? I’ve enjoyed how it makes me feel but the carb limit is difficult to meet without meat.

        • usernamesAreTricky@lemmy.mlOP
          6·
          6 months ago

          I know of people that do even vegan keto. There’s actually a decently large subreddit for it. There are resources out there if you feel inclined to do so

          I’d always caution people about keto in general though, esspecially for meat heavy keto. A lot of the discussion around it is not always the most scientific

          Much of what people may be observing from keto is likely not as much due to carb limits, but from watching food closer. On most diets, people tend to report stuff like weight loss because they’re more aware of what they eat. Or in other cases, changing foods around accidentally ends up avoiding a very specific food sensitivity. For instance you’ll find lots of similar observations from a whole-foods plant-based diet

          If it’s not being done for reasons like epilepsy, Keto overall has some not so great long term health impacts that people tend to gloss over. Though much of that research finding more negative outcomes look at people doing so with a meat heavy diet. Ranging from bone health to kidney damage. If I remember correctly, the more limited research about vegan keto has found better results, but I’d still advise caution in general

          TLDR; yes it’s possible and there are people that do it, but just be careful about keto in general because it’s got some long term impacts that aren’t so great

          • snazzles@lemm.ee
            1·
            6 months ago

            Is there not a lot of conflicting evidence for, not keto specifically, but the role of fats and saturated fats (I believe the most concerning aspects of keto) in health? I did a bit of research before going on it and I think came to the conclusion it wasn’t really backed as healthy nor unhealthy but couldn’t be worse than eating garbage instead.

            I’ll be sure to check out the vegetarian / vegan keto subreddits though! Might find some nice meals ideas.

            • usernamesAreTricky@lemmy.mlOP
              2·
              6 months ago

              Reading through some more scientific reviews article, it seems like a lot of the risk comes from animal-based product consumption particularly. For instance, one study found increased all-cause mortality for keto with higher animal product consumption and decreased levels for a plant-based keto diet. However, given that most studies aren’t focusing on that, it’s still hard to tell if there’s other risks not being included there. Additionally, a lot of the touted benefits of keto appear to wane over time and don’t end up doing all that much better than other diets

              I’d still recommend just being careful about it

              Longer-term effects [of Ketogenic diets] can include decreased bone mineral density, nephrolithiasis, cardiomyopathy, anemia, and neuropathy of the optic nerve (82, 121). Ketogenic diets have low long-term tolerability, and are not sustainable for many individuals (48, 49). Diets low in carbohydrate have also been associated with an increased risk of all-cause mortality (122), although recent data suggest that lower-carbohydrate diets can be linked to either higher or lower mortality risk, depending on the quality of the carbohydrate they contain and whether they rely more on animal protein and saturated fat or plant protein and unsaturated fat, respectively (123).

              https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fnut.2021.702802/full#h1

              Unfortunately, these effects seem to be limited in time.

              https://www.mdpi.com/2072-6643/9/5/517?d=40&cgid=9aS3

    • Firebirdie713@lemmy.blahaj.zone
      27·
      6 months ago

      And yet rice, beans/lentils, pasta, vegetables, and spices are all vegan, and are all the staples for low-cost meals in grocery stores the world over. Where do you live where that isn’t the case?

        • Firebirdie713@lemmy.blahaj.zone
          13·
          6 months ago

          Fruits are also available but usually tend to be more expensive and are usually considered a treat for people on limited budgets. Me not listing them was part of keeping to the usual budget shopping lists recommend for people with limited income. Unless you are further being a pedant and insisting that tomatoes are fruits and not vegetables.

          And while I am fortunate enough to live in the continental US, I mostly buy what is in season and local and therefore on sale for relatively cheap. And anywhere where that isn’t available, frozen veggies are available, often for even cheaper and with no difference in nutritional value or content. If you don’t have a fridge/freezer, dried veggies are also available in most markets (dried peppers especially) and canned goods are far better for you now than they ever have been, with only marginal decreases in nutritional value.

          Where do you live that absolutely no vegetables are available in any form for a dollar a can or five dollars for a family pack that would make a couple dozen meals for a family of four?

          (Edit: Or, if not in the US, where you can’t even buy local produce, unless you are in an area where there is famine. In which case you may object to the fact that almost half our farmable land is used to grow crops to feed to animals instead of being used to grow more food for humans.)

            • Firebirdie713@lemmy.blahaj.zone
              8·
              6 months ago

              Dude, vegans can and do eat fruits. For people who can’t afford seasonal fresh fruit, we have fortified foods like bread, pasta, rice, and cereals, most of which are also vegan. I specified rice and beans (and everything else you conveniently ignored, lol) because they make a complete protein, which is usually the only thing you need to monitor closely if you are vegan on a budget. Anything else and you are best off getting a multivitamin for best bang for your buck.

              Also, you saying none of us have been hungry and then lecturing us about not getting both fruits AND vegetables when fresh fruit is one of the most expensive things in a grocery store, outside of meat that is? You clearly have never been poor enough that you have been needing to have your ‘fruit’ be the cheapest jar of grape jelly you can find, or the cans of frozen ‘orange drink concentrate’.

            • usernamesAreTricky@lemmy.mlOP
              7·
              6 months ago

              Beans and rice aren’t replacing the fruits and vegetables part. People eating meat-based diets are also eating fruits and vegetables, or if not, they aren’t going be healthy either

    • AIhasUse@lemmy.world
      6·
      6 months ago

      You know you can’t actually argue against it, so you point to a small hypothetical edgecase as if that will excuse your behavior. You are the one who lacks perspective and demonstrates extreme entitlement. You think because there may be some people forced between starvation and factory meat that it somehow gives you moral superiority and permission to destroy the lives of others. I go out of my way to make things better, you desperately search for anything you can to distract from all the harm you selfishly cause.

      You don’t even have the strength to let other people do the work. You feel like you need to go out of your way to attack and intimidate them because it makes you feel so inferior. Lucky for you, there are people on the planet to take care of things for you while you just sit by and moan and complain. We work for a better world despite you while you complain about our efforts, you entitled little brat.

    • AIhasUse@lemmy.world
      4·
      6 months ago

      Other people have handled you naivety well. Now, please do your part and fix your diet for the sake of everyone on the planet. You want to stand up for people, so stand up for them by showing some self-control.