The point is that The Economist will also cheer for the return of a CDU-led coalition, i.e. the people that begat us the hardened debt brake in 2009, as a part of the constitution. For the time being, Merz is still a champion of the debt brake. I have no doubt he’s not as ideological about it as FDP/Lindner, rather he’s primarily doing that to fuck with SPD/Greens at the expense of the country.
Don’t you think it makes more sense to actually discuss the article linked here instead of having a general discussion about party politics and what media allegedly prefers who?
Especially since the article contains opinions that completely align with the commentator who criticised it so harshly.
The actual article: “The death of the unloved “traffic-light” coalition is long overdue. Fractious, unable to grapple with Germany’s deep-seated economic woes, and incompetently managed…”. Yeah, no party politics there…
Followed by straight out lying (“Yet the coalition had set its face against any new version of the covid-recovery fund that has injected hundreds of billions of euros into European economies in the past three years.”) as actually the conservative opposition sued them before the constitutional court.
But sure the debt brake “urgently needs reform, which in turn requires a new government”… one let by the moronic conservatives with an austerity fetish who actually put that bullshit into the constitution in the first place.
So let’s not talk about party politics as that’s not what the article is about… 🤡
The political equivalent to “one of the sheep broke through the fence and was killed outside, but luckily we have a plan to get rid of the fence -a questionable concept anyway- and let a pack of wolves guard them now” is a totally reasonable take… if you are stupid or your primary concern is to promote conservatives wolves.
The death of the unloved “traffic-light” coalition is long overdue.
…which is a sentiment almost unanimously spread across Germany. I.e. also including those that align themselves with one of the partaking parties. No party politics (conservative spin?) here.
Also, you omitted the part where it stated that such a coalition would in no case be fit to stand up against Trump, which is the point made to justify the opening “long overdue death”. Would you disagree with this assessment?
Your cited passage:
Europe needs more joint money for Ukraine and a large EU budget for defence. Yet the coalition had set its face against any new version of the covid-recovery fund that has injected hundreds of billions of euros into European economies in the past three years.
Of course the Union had a blast sueing the coalition. But it wasn’t who sued them that made it illegal but the constitution. In my world, it shouldn’t matter who sues to determine if something is illegal or not.
But sure the debt brake “urgently needs reform, which in turn requires a new government”…
Well, yes it does! The traffic light coalition wasn’t willing/able to overcome the debt brake and exploded due to this issue. So now a new government is needed. I see no party politics here. Could well be a new government with Olaf and others willing to cancel the debt brake.
one let by the moronic conservatives with an austerity fetish who actually put that bullshit into the constitution in the first place.
This is coming entirely from you and is not part of the article in the slightest. As stated several times already, it even makes clear claims against the debt brake.
So let’s not talk about party politics as that’s not what the article is about…
Exactly. The one being so strongly agitated by this article is you and I really wonder what you read into it that it makes you so angry. This isn’t a conservatives vs social democrats text in the slightest but instead makes some general yet interesting points about the state of affairs in Europe given the arising challenges in our future.
A future, mind you, where it is vital for us to stand together against pressures from the outside instead of being completely self-absorbed and losing ourselves in petty disputes. Which is why I find it so strange that you chose to be offended instead of trying to listen to the author.
you omitted the part where it stated that such a coalition would in no case be fit to stand up against Trump
And? “They would not be fit to stand up against Trump” is a statement as baseless as “that coalition needed to die”. Just because they are a neo-liberal rag hating on a government not sharing their delusion doesn’t make it true. I ommited that part because it adds nothing. I could have used that quote instead of the one about the hated coalition finally dying for the exact same argument.
But it wasn’t who sued them that made it illegal but the constitution.
That’s only half the story. They sued for a practice they used a hundred of times in the past. Not because it makes sense, not because it will improve anything (in fact that strict interpretation of the law will make their future work as well as all state governments harder). They did it because they saw a chance to obstruct the government, consequences be damned.
Could well be a new government with Olaf and others willing to cancel the debt brake.
No it can’t. Because just like this article “the government is bad and incompetent and tries to destroy Germany!!!” is screamed by every noe.liberal rag out- but especially inside Germany for 3 years. And then boosted by right-wing propagandists on social media, too.
There is no alternativer government in Germany’s future. It’s either tone-deaf conservatives with a debt fetish (and a million other issues like corruption, fossil fuel addiction, Russia-cuddling) or nazis. Or both if the constant shift of conservatives to parrot far-right propaganda and populism and their totally insane statements basically calling all actual democratic parties off-limits for coalition for often absurd reasons is any indication.
This is coming entirely from you and is not part of the article in the slightest.
No, this is coming from reality. If telling you a simple well-known and documented fact is “talking about party politics” you really can’t be helped anymore because you are either trolling or intentionally ignoring reality.
This isn’t a conservatives vs social democrats text in the slightest
Yes it is. “The coalition of all other democratic parties has failed as it should! We need a new government!” is exactly that. It is the statement to go back to moronic conservative policies of slow decay and corruption or abandon democracy. Those are the two option in actual reality. But guessing irrelevant facts like polls and party programs would be “party politics”, too…
A future, mind you, where it is vital for us to stand together against pressures from the outside instead of being completely self-absorbed and losing ourselves in petty disputes.
There is no future of standing together against the outside. There is an inside danger of going back to slow decay… only that it’s actually accelarating right now. There is an inside danger of nazis coming back to power in Germany. And there is an inside danger of both happening (as the faction of decay and corruption is already testing the waters how much lies about foreigners being to blame for everything the public accepts without backlash). And then there are the few remaining other democratic parties. You know… the coalition that needed to die because they were so utterly incompetent that infrastructure decaying for decades under conservative rule decided to crumble from utter frustration, so helpless that even electrons got confused and wouldn’t pass those totally modern 1980s copper cables fast enough anymore, so stupid that the poor people in the country had no choice but to listen to Russian trolls and vote for literal nazis.
But I know… that’s too much party politics for you. Just say you didn’t know anything when you wake up in ruins. Did work for most people the last time, too.
I have no idea about internal workings of german politics but isn’t it the time for CDU-SPD coalition? I know it happened before and unity government is something that would be the most reasonable way out. It might be my bias talking though. While I identify as socialist I respect true Christian democrats for their social policies. I don’t believe any major party can reasonably advocate for debt brakes in current conditions. Are CDU that far gone really?
A new Grand Coalition is extremely likely but it wouldn’t be the same as before at all.
A bit of a long overview which will include some personal coloring-in:
CDU and CSU (the latter being Bavaria-only; commonly called the “Union”, or on Feddit “CxU”) are not particularly Christian. They do have a large number of church-goers—but I guess those people separate very clearly between faith and action. They are simply conservatives: Protecting “family values”, protecting established capitalists over either people or new industries, cutting into social systems, insisting on low-debt state finances, protecting fossil interests, not really protecting nature, being Atlanticists for the most part.
Merkel was supposedly one of the most left-wing CDU people, and we did see a few progressive wins in her 16 years as the chancellor, such as allowing a law legalizing gay marriage to pass. Mostly though, we didn’t see all that many regressive things.
We also saw a lot of things just get stuck and handled in unsustainable ways. German consumers were heating their homes with then-cheap Russian gas. German industry got ever more dependent on then-cheap Russian gas and on outsourcing, as well as selling to the Chinese. Ministers successfully protected coal interests [20k employees] against a burgeoning domestic solar/wind industry [100k employees at its height], and concentrated all efforts on producing fossil-powered cars for export. German road infrastructure continued to expand, but existing road and rail infrastructure crumbled, as the “privatized” Deutsche Bahn got less punctual by the year. We accidentally turned into an immigration country in 2015, which would have been completely anathema for CxU in the 90s and 00s. In 2015, the slogan “refugees welcome” was everywhere but when volunteer support eventually faltered, we failed to institutionalize integration efforts properly. At the end of the Merkel era, pretty much all of this exploded in the new coaliton’s faces.
Also, throughout the Merkel era, some pretty far-right people got into important positions. E.g.: Kristina Schröder who counterfactually equated level/quality of left-wing and right-wing extremism. Wolfgang Schäuble who was both very close to Merkel and economically extremely harmful on the EU level. Even Jens Spahn, former minister of health who’s now one of the major connections into Trumpistan.
Since the end of the Merkel era, the CxU have veered right quite significantly. Ursula von der Leyen (now on the EU level) is the last real remainder of the Merkel era, and even she is veering right.
The new CDU leader is Friedrich Merz, and he’s kind of the anti-Merkel: He is nakedly power-hungry, scheming, divisive, tantrum-throwing, unempathetic. And he’s collecting asshats around him, like Linnemann or aforementioned Spahn (now the CDU “expert” on everything under the sun and not even a bit ashamed that he sunk hundreds of millions of Euros into extremely overpriced Covid masks, even as they were no longer needed).
Under Merz, CxU are now looking to capitalize on right-wing populist themes, which ironically were largely coined in response to Merkel policies. They somehow haven’t yet realized that the original right-wing populists hate them and want CxU to go away. [Quite literally, the people now shouting “Hang the Ampel coalition” used to be shouting “Merkel must go!”.]
As stated above: this article criticises the debt brake as “absurd”.
The point is that The Economist will also cheer for the return of a CDU-led coalition, i.e. the people that begat us the hardened debt brake in 2009, as a part of the constitution. For the time being, Merz is still a champion of the debt brake. I have no doubt he’s not as ideological about it as FDP/Lindner, rather he’s primarily doing that to fuck with SPD/Greens at the expense of the country.
Don’t you think it makes more sense to actually discuss the article linked here instead of having a general discussion about party politics and what media allegedly prefers who?
Especially since the article contains opinions that completely align with the commentator who criticised it so harshly.
deleted by creator
The actual article: “The death of the unloved “traffic-light” coalition is long overdue. Fractious, unable to grapple with Germany’s deep-seated economic woes, and incompetently managed…”. Yeah, no party politics there…
Followed by straight out lying (“Yet the coalition had set its face against any new version of the covid-recovery fund that has injected hundreds of billions of euros into European economies in the past three years.”) as actually the conservative opposition sued them before the constitutional court.
But sure the debt brake “urgently needs reform, which in turn requires a new government”… one let by the moronic conservatives with an austerity fetish who actually put that bullshit into the constitution in the first place.
So let’s not talk about party politics as that’s not what the article is about… 🤡
The political equivalent to “one of the sheep broke through the fence and was killed outside, but luckily we have a plan to get rid of the fence -a questionable concept anyway- and let a pack of wolves guard them now” is a totally reasonable take… if you are stupid or your primary concern is to promote
conservativeswolves.…which is a sentiment almost unanimously spread across Germany. I.e. also including those that align themselves with one of the partaking parties. No party politics (conservative spin?) here. Also, you omitted the part where it stated that such a coalition would in no case be fit to stand up against Trump, which is the point made to justify the opening “long overdue death”. Would you disagree with this assessment?
Your cited passage:
Of course the Union had a blast sueing the coalition. But it wasn’t who sued them that made it illegal but the constitution. In my world, it shouldn’t matter who sues to determine if something is illegal or not.
Well, yes it does! The traffic light coalition wasn’t willing/able to overcome the debt brake and exploded due to this issue. So now a new government is needed. I see no party politics here. Could well be a new government with Olaf and others willing to cancel the debt brake.
This is coming entirely from you and is not part of the article in the slightest. As stated several times already, it even makes clear claims against the debt brake.
Exactly. The one being so strongly agitated by this article is you and I really wonder what you read into it that it makes you so angry. This isn’t a conservatives vs social democrats text in the slightest but instead makes some general yet interesting points about the state of affairs in Europe given the arising challenges in our future.
A future, mind you, where it is vital for us to stand together against pressures from the outside instead of being completely self-absorbed and losing ourselves in petty disputes. Which is why I find it so strange that you chose to be offended instead of trying to listen to the author.
And? “They would not be fit to stand up against Trump” is a statement as baseless as “that coalition needed to die”. Just because they are a neo-liberal rag hating on a government not sharing their delusion doesn’t make it true. I ommited that part because it adds nothing. I could have used that quote instead of the one about the hated coalition finally dying for the exact same argument.
That’s only half the story. They sued for a practice they used a hundred of times in the past. Not because it makes sense, not because it will improve anything (in fact that strict interpretation of the law will make their future work as well as all state governments harder). They did it because they saw a chance to obstruct the government, consequences be damned.
No it can’t. Because just like this article “the government is bad and incompetent and tries to destroy Germany!!!” is screamed by every noe.liberal rag out- but especially inside Germany for 3 years. And then boosted by right-wing propagandists on social media, too.
There is no alternativer government in Germany’s future. It’s either tone-deaf conservatives with a debt fetish (and a million other issues like corruption, fossil fuel addiction, Russia-cuddling) or nazis. Or both if the constant shift of conservatives to parrot far-right propaganda and populism and their totally insane statements basically calling all actual democratic parties off-limits for coalition for often absurd reasons is any indication.
No, this is coming from reality. If telling you a simple well-known and documented fact is “talking about party politics” you really can’t be helped anymore because you are either trolling or intentionally ignoring reality.
Yes it is. “The coalition of all other democratic parties has failed as it should! We need a new government!” is exactly that. It is the statement to go back to moronic conservative policies of slow decay and corruption or abandon democracy. Those are the two option in actual reality. But guessing irrelevant facts like polls and party programs would be “party politics”, too…
There is no future of standing together against the outside. There is an inside danger of going back to slow decay… only that it’s actually accelarating right now. There is an inside danger of nazis coming back to power in Germany. And there is an inside danger of both happening (as the faction of decay and corruption is already testing the waters how much lies about foreigners being to blame for everything the public accepts without backlash). And then there are the few remaining other democratic parties. You know… the coalition that needed to die because they were so utterly incompetent that infrastructure decaying for decades under conservative rule decided to crumble from utter frustration, so helpless that even electrons got confused and wouldn’t pass those totally modern 1980s copper cables fast enough anymore, so stupid that the poor people in the country had no choice but to listen to Russian trolls and vote for literal nazis.
But I know… that’s too much party politics for you. Just say you didn’t know anything when you wake up in ruins. Did work for most people the last time, too.
Your whole tirading always fails at this point, because the article criticises the debt brake. You bark up the wrong tree.
I have no idea about internal workings of german politics but isn’t it the time for CDU-SPD coalition? I know it happened before and unity government is something that would be the most reasonable way out. It might be my bias talking though. While I identify as socialist I respect true Christian democrats for their social policies. I don’t believe any major party can reasonably advocate for debt brakes in current conditions. Are CDU that far gone really?
A new Grand Coalition is extremely likely but it wouldn’t be the same as before at all.
A bit of a long overview which will include some personal coloring-in:
CDU and CSU (the latter being Bavaria-only; commonly called the “Union”, or on Feddit “CxU”) are not particularly Christian. They do have a large number of church-goers—but I guess those people separate very clearly between faith and action. They are simply conservatives: Protecting “family values”, protecting established capitalists over either people or new industries, cutting into social systems, insisting on low-debt state finances, protecting fossil interests, not really protecting nature, being Atlanticists for the most part.
Merkel was supposedly one of the most left-wing CDU people, and we did see a few progressive wins in her 16 years as the chancellor, such as allowing a law legalizing gay marriage to pass. Mostly though, we didn’t see all that many regressive things.
We also saw a lot of things just get stuck and handled in unsustainable ways. German consumers were heating their homes with then-cheap Russian gas. German industry got ever more dependent on then-cheap Russian gas and on outsourcing, as well as selling to the Chinese. Ministers successfully protected coal interests [20k employees] against a burgeoning domestic solar/wind industry [100k employees at its height], and concentrated all efforts on producing fossil-powered cars for export. German road infrastructure continued to expand, but existing road and rail infrastructure crumbled, as the “privatized” Deutsche Bahn got less punctual by the year. We accidentally turned into an immigration country in 2015, which would have been completely anathema for CxU in the 90s and 00s. In 2015, the slogan “refugees welcome” was everywhere but when volunteer support eventually faltered, we failed to institutionalize integration efforts properly. At the end of the Merkel era, pretty much all of this exploded in the new coaliton’s faces.
Also, throughout the Merkel era, some pretty far-right people got into important positions. E.g.: Kristina Schröder who counterfactually equated level/quality of left-wing and right-wing extremism. Wolfgang Schäuble who was both very close to Merkel and economically extremely harmful on the EU level. Even Jens Spahn, former minister of health who’s now one of the major connections into Trumpistan.
Since the end of the Merkel era, the CxU have veered right quite significantly. Ursula von der Leyen (now on the EU level) is the last real remainder of the Merkel era, and even she is veering right.
The new CDU leader is Friedrich Merz, and he’s kind of the anti-Merkel: He is nakedly power-hungry, scheming, divisive, tantrum-throwing, unempathetic. And he’s collecting asshats around him, like Linnemann or aforementioned Spahn (now the CDU “expert” on everything under the sun and not even a bit ashamed that he sunk hundreds of millions of Euros into extremely overpriced Covid masks, even as they were no longer needed).
Under Merz, CxU are now looking to capitalize on right-wing populist themes, which ironically were largely coined in response to Merkel policies. They somehow haven’t yet realized that the original right-wing populists hate them and want CxU to go away. [Quite literally, the people now shouting “Hang the Ampel coalition” used to be shouting “Merkel must go!”.]
Thank you.