Considering the meaning of democracy is just that decisions are made by the will of the polity’s population, gonna go with ‘yes’.
If you try to think of democracy as some perfect decision-making machine that will decide in accordance with your moral code, the only democracy you’ll find is autocracy.
Democracy results in decision-making that is neither inherently good nor inherently bad. It results in decision-making with broad consensus or acquiescence by the polity’s population. That’s all.
How many people? How many people have to vote to make it a democracy? At what point does something stop being a democracy? How many people are allowed to be excluded ? How many people are allowed to be exterminated before it ceases to be a democracy? Would you classify apartheid as democracy for instance?
Hold up a second there Socrates, I thought that was all. Isn’t that what you said a second ago? If that is all, you should have a pretty easy answer my questions right?
You’re the one with extremely strong opinions on what makes democracy not democracy beyond non-participation of the citizen body, I would expect you to have answers to those questions.
My answers are self-evident in principle - that participation of the citizen body is what defines democracy, and everything else is question of degrees or of morality outside the question of democracy. Your answers, on the other hand, are not self-evident, since you think a democratic polity which kills other people is not a democracy.
Am I the one that expressed an extremely strong opinion? I thought you defined democracy, and then definitively said “that is all”. Again which one of us declared an extremely strong position? You took an extremely definitive position and set limits upon it. A position which you can’t seem to clarify. It seems to me you made the claim. An extremely broad, extremely general, and maybe an extremely naive claim. I ask you again if it’s so self-evident define it for me. What level of participation of the citizen body? If the citizen body is eliminating part of itself is that really still democracy? Is it apartheid state democracy? How can it be?
For that matter by your absurd definition an oligarchy is a democracy isn’t it? That’s participation of citizens. Not a lot of them. But you don’t need any limits as long as anyone participates it’s all you care about right? That’s the logical conclusion is it not? Seemed self-evident.
Am I the one that expressed an extremely strong opinion?
Yes, considering that you expressed that genocide and democracy were incompatible.
A position which you can’t seem to clarify.
I actually clarified it quite clearly from the start. Which you acknowledge, as you describe my position as both “definitive” and with “set limits”.
Conveniently, you seem to reverse your position in this same comment, which reeks of tossing shit at the wall to see what sticks.
What level of participation of the citizen body?
Voting is generally agreed to be a minimum.
If the citizen body is eliminating part of itself is that really still democracy?
Yes. I struggle to think of any democracy which does not eliminate any of its citizen body.
Is it apartheid state democracy?
They can be, theoretically. Democracy regards the participation of the citizen body in the polity’s decision-making. Whether the citizen body or the polity is racist is not really relevant to this.
How can it be?
In the same way that any state is a democracy. There are always limits to both the citizen body and the polity. The more limits, the less democratic; yet no democracy is without limits entirely.
For that matter by your absurd definition an oligarchy is a democracy isn’t it? That’s participation of citizens. Not a lot of them. But you don’t need any limits as long as anyone participates it’s all you care about right? That’s the logical conclusion is it not? Seemed self-evident.
More “At that point, we’re discussing moral issues OTHER than democracy” rather than “We shouldn’t try to stop this”
Is it though? Can a democracy truly exist when it decides to exterminate entire peoples? Is that democracy?
Considering the meaning of democracy is just that decisions are made by the will of the polity’s population, gonna go with ‘yes’.
If you try to think of democracy as some perfect decision-making machine that will decide in accordance with your moral code, the only democracy you’ll find is autocracy.
Democracy results in decision-making that is neither inherently good nor inherently bad. It results in decision-making with broad consensus or acquiescence by the polity’s population. That’s all.
How many people? How many people have to vote to make it a democracy? At what point does something stop being a democracy? How many people are allowed to be excluded ? How many people are allowed to be exterminated before it ceases to be a democracy? Would you classify apartheid as democracy for instance?
What are your answers to those questions?
Hold up a second there Socrates, I thought that was all. Isn’t that what you said a second ago? If that is all, you should have a pretty easy answer my questions right?
You’re the one with extremely strong opinions on what makes democracy not democracy beyond non-participation of the citizen body, I would expect you to have answers to those questions.
My answers are self-evident in principle - that participation of the citizen body is what defines democracy, and everything else is question of degrees or of morality outside the question of democracy. Your answers, on the other hand, are not self-evident, since you think a democratic polity which kills other people is not a democracy.
Am I the one that expressed an extremely strong opinion? I thought you defined democracy, and then definitively said “that is all”. Again which one of us declared an extremely strong position? You took an extremely definitive position and set limits upon it. A position which you can’t seem to clarify. It seems to me you made the claim. An extremely broad, extremely general, and maybe an extremely naive claim. I ask you again if it’s so self-evident define it for me. What level of participation of the citizen body? If the citizen body is eliminating part of itself is that really still democracy? Is it apartheid state democracy? How can it be?
For that matter by your absurd definition an oligarchy is a democracy isn’t it? That’s participation of citizens. Not a lot of them. But you don’t need any limits as long as anyone participates it’s all you care about right? That’s the logical conclusion is it not? Seemed self-evident.
Yes, considering that you expressed that genocide and democracy were incompatible.
I actually clarified it quite clearly from the start. Which you acknowledge, as you describe my position as both “definitive” and with “set limits”.
Conveniently, you seem to reverse your position in this same comment, which reeks of tossing shit at the wall to see what sticks.
Voting is generally agreed to be a minimum.
Yes. I struggle to think of any democracy which does not eliminate any of its citizen body.
They can be, theoretically. Democracy regards the participation of the citizen body in the polity’s decision-making. Whether the citizen body or the polity is racist is not really relevant to this.
In the same way that any state is a democracy. There are always limits to both the citizen body and the polity. The more limits, the less democratic; yet no democracy is without limits entirely.
fucking what