• Ulrich@feddit.org
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    2 days ago

    Depends on what types of games you want to play. If you play a lot of competitive multiplayer games you’re gonna have a bad time.

    • JasonDJ@lemmy.zip
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      2 days ago

      More people need to say that if you’re going to want ring 0, I’m not going to give you my money.

      • Dicska@lemmy.world
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        2 days ago

        …which is a completely valid point if you don’t mind not playing those games. But if you do want to play them (for example because back when you got to love them, they didn’t have this), you have yourself a dilemma.

        Unless you want to play against a shitload of cheaters every day (ruining the fun whenever you have 30 minutes to wind down), your game should have a decent enough AC to detect when someone loads a cheat, including the lowest level. And guess who doesn’t have a problem with 3rd party programs accessing ring 0.

        So there you have it, you either stop playing all multiplayer games (not even just competitive ones!) entirely, or stick with Windows and all the awful things that come with it. I’ve been wanting to switch to Linux for the past 20 years, have been playing various multiplayer games over the past 2 decades, and it was always either the AC or just the sheer incompatibility (especially in the earlier years). There was even a time when people could happily cheat on Linux and get away with it in Counter-Strike: Source, because VAC simply didn’t work on Linux.

        • dgdft@lemmy.world
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          1 day ago

          I agree with your overall point.

          However, as a professional codemonkey, I promise you that root-level AC is in fact less secure than server-side heuristic AC + user reporting, and tends to be user-hostile due to false-flagging of modified systems. Root-level AC can be bypassed rather easily these days with DMA and other out-of-band tooling.

          As a case-study, League of Legends lacked any root-level AC for well over a decade, and was arguably the most popular game in the world at points. Cheaters were extraordinarily rare; the average player would typically encounter well under a dozen cheaters per thousand games.

          Riot Games then released Valorant with full root-level AC, and had an aimbot explosion within a few months - mostly because they devalued player feedback & reporting in favor of their “robust” automated AC solution. Their overall anticheat strategy became less reliable on the whole, but they stuck to it because root-level AC is cheaper and easier to execute from the corporate-profit POV.

        • imecth@fedia.io
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          2 days ago

          So there you have it, you either stop playing all multiplayer games (not even just competitive ones!) entirely

          There’s plenty of multiplayer games that run just fine on linux. Including FPS games with perfectly functional anti cheat, it’s just a select few which are unfortunately very popular that actively block linux. This is the part where you put your money where your mouth is and support the games that support the system you want to game on.

          • Dicska@lemmy.world
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            1 day ago

            That sounds better - now I just wish those were the games that I play.

            • matcha_addict@lemy.lol
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              1 day ago

              Try other games? Whatever kind of game you like, there’s likely a less invasive alternative. We’re no longer in the era of game scarcity.

              • Dicska@lemmy.world
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                1 day ago

                I wish it was that simple… though I do like my games enough that it’s a pretty unpleasant choice either way, my friends who play also refuse to change games just for my sake, and they don’t mind using Windows. Therefore I can basically stop playing with them, or stick with this rubbish.

        • matcha_addict@lemy.lol
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          1 day ago

          I agree with your first paragraph, if you just got hooked to these games and want to compromise your own privacy and security by playing these games, that is your own trade offs.

          But your second paragraph claims that not compromising security and privacy means you have to deal with cheaters. That is false. The games who support Linux do not have more cheaters. In fact, there’s plenty of cheaters all over the anti Linux games, such as destiny and league.

          Also there are plenty of multi-player and competitive games on Linux. It’s only a few who do not (who admittedly also happen to be some of the more popular titles). I only agree with this sentiment if you’re hooked onto the specific games that are anti Linux, not the competitive multi-player genre.

          • Dicska@lemmy.world
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            1 day ago

            Apart from the problem of my friends sticking with the same games I play regardless of my decision, the other problem is… yes, most people usually play the games that most people play. I also happen to be in that (high) percentage, so there’s not much room.

            BTW I’ve been playing League for a long time, and while cheaters have been a thing for a while, in my experience it practically became a nonexistent problem recently. It doesn’t prove anything, just saying that League isn’t in the ‘cheaters all over’ category anymore (imho).

            Thankfully, Rocket League is actually pretty decent in this regard, so that’s a “safe” one - but there’s several more that still necessitates Windows, so I don’t see the point of going back and forth in dual boot every time I switch games.

      • xavier666@lemm.ee
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        2 days ago

        Take 100 random gamers. How many of them will know what ring 0/kernel level anti-cheat even means? They don’t care. They will happily accept whatever the publisher puts inside the game.

        The only exception to this is Denuvo because it was affecting performance.

        Disclaimer - I’m an ardent linux fan

        • matcha_addict@lemy.lol
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          1 day ago

          They don’t know ring 0, but they would understand “this anti cheat is the most privacy invasive kind, controlling and monitoring everything on your computer”.

          • xavier666@lemm.ee
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            14 hours ago

            this anti cheat is the most privacy invasive kind, controlling and monitoring everything on your computer

            Avg gamer: Woah that’s really bad.

            Me: So you’ll uninstall the game now, right?

            Avg gamer: What? Heck no. I’m Diamond in Valorant. And all my friends are playing it


            They will understand what you said. But changing habit is way harder on a mass scale. It’s well known for years that Vanguard is a rootkit but the game is as popular as ever. If you tell this on any gaming community, you’ll be responded with “Oh and switch to LinSux and play decade old games?”

    • mnemonicmonkeys@sh.itjust.works
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      1 day ago

      Honestly at this point those fanbases are allowing companies to expand on anti-consumer practices to a similar degree as sports games. I wouldn’t feel bed if they started being left behind as well

      • Ulrich@feddit.org
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        1 day ago

        You’re not wrong. I would never install a rootki- I mean anti-cheat on my machine regardless. But the point stands.

      • dumblederp@aussie.zone
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        24 hours ago

        No one’s “allowing” companies, the companies see the profits from MTX and are going full steam ahead in that direction. The users that don’t spend on MTX aren’t considered because they’re not profitable.

        • mnemonicmonkeys@sh.itjust.works
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          3 hours ago

          No one’s “allowing” companies

          Ok…

          the companies see the profits from MTX

          How the fuck do you not understand this connection and how your 2 statements contradict each other? Players are ALLOWING this slop (not just MTX, which you laser focussed on for no reason) by continuing to give them money.

          Stop just repeating thoughtless “gotchas” when they’re (at best) only marginally relevant. Come up with actual arguments.

          There’s an old relevant quote: “it’s better to keep your mouth closed and thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt”

          • dumblederp@aussie.zone
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            4 minutes ago

            I see you’ve elected to ignore the “be respectful” proviso, sure lets go.

            You added nothing to the discussion except that you didn’t like my argument or me.

            Enshitification is coming at us from many angles. I chose to mention MTX in my throwaway comment on a chat board. We’re not sitting session at the International Parliament of Stuck up Linux Gamers are we? The thing is most people either don’t care or at least don’t care enough to push back on the issues. From a corporate perspective as long as enough money is coming in, they wont care either. Crawl back into your niche and go fuck yourself you obnoxious internet cretin.