Trump warned he will impose additional tariffs on the European Union and Canada if they band together to “do economic harm” against the United States.
Get @#$%ed, Trump. Good read. Short but detailed about how partnered we are already and what our next priorities should be
Excellent article.
Main points for me:
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Horizon Europe, digital sovereignty and technology, GDPR. YES! And absolutely we should be strengthening our privacy laws. We should be moving towards GDPR and we should be pushing for right to repair, etc.
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Green Alliance, climate collaboration, and collaboration on the Arctic. YES! But see the impacts of CETA/ISDS/ICS too.
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Freedom of movement. Yes, but: Europe’s model of immigration has the opposite values than ours. We shouldn’t let European phobic attitudes to immigration hamstring us from developing further ties, e.g., with the north african and sub-saharan francophonie. But we should definitely, absolutely further develop Erasmus+ and other EU-Canada youth exchange programs. And it should become extremely fluid and frictionless to recognize European professional credentials in Canada. An Italian doctor or a Greek nurse or a Spanish engineer or a German tradesperson should be able to start practicing in Canada within weeks at worst. EDIT: Also, linked with deepening research collaboration: Canadian temporary permits (study, work) should start to be recognized as means to expedite or eliminate EU visitor visas. We welcome fantastic international students who come from places Europeans over-scrutinize (the Maghreb, Africa, Iran, India, …) and are in a disadvantage for research collaborations and/or research visits in the EU.
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But I would be squarely against closer political and monetary integration with the EU. We absolutely do not need the Euro or the Stability and Growth Pact, and we do not need the various Orbans, LePens and Melonis, or the various debt-phobic Germans and Dutch having any kind of veto over our policies or say over our politics. The Norwegian, Swiss and Icelandic models are good models of EU-collaboration, and we can of course develop our own. We can be very very very good friends, but just like we don’t need to be anyone’s 51st state, we also don’t need to be anyone’s 28th member state.
Finally: for that matter, we should be looking for similar degrees of integration with Japan-Korea-Australia, etc. We are uniquely positioned to unite Pacific and Atlantic. To quote Carney: “if US no longer wants to lead, Canada will”.
All great points.
Having every privilege of EU without any governance or foreign policy or funding role is awesome, and Canada would win even as all EU wins, though I think Canada wins more.
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I have no interest in Canada joining the EU, which I see as having a bunch of governance problems of their own, but being close allies with well-integrated and mutually supportive economies via trade and other agreements sounds good to me.
Honestly, the idea floated that Canada would form a bloc with the UK, other commonwealth countries, and the EU, then have that bloc negotiate trade agreements with China sounds absolutely ideal to me. That’s apparently already been raised by Carney in private talks on his visits to Europe and the UK. It would unite most of the world and cut the US off unless they changed course on their insane path. That’s the foundation for a much more positive world order
Hmm. What level of integration do you think would be too close?
I don’t want Canada under the EU governance system, and I don’t think it’s necessary to join the EU as a member just to have close and mutually supportive relations. Unless the Conservatives win today, we’re still quite aligned with the EU in terms of values and commitment to similar international standards and goals, so I think we can form many trade agreements, cooperate on defense, and support similar international institutions, but just doing it with Canada as country that is a friend of the EU and not a member of the EU.
and I don’t think it’s necessary to join the EU as a member just to have close and mutually supportive relations.
It’s really, really not. That’s maybe the most important thing for everyone to know. Actually being a member is basically just a capstone on top of all the various kinds of coordination we could do, and several countries like Norway just opt not to take that last step.
Not speaking for OP, but here’s what I wrote in another comment:
But I would be squarely against closer political and monetary integration with the EU. We absolutely do not need the Euro or the Stability and Growth Pact, and we do not need the various Orbans, LePens and Melonis, or the various debt-phobic Germans and Dutch having any kind of veto over our policies or say over our politics. The Norwegian, Swiss and Icelandic models are good models of EU-collaboration, and we can of course develop our own. We can be very very very good friends, but just like we don’t need to be anyone’s 51st state, we also don’t need to be anyone’s 28th member state.
That’s reasonable. Honestly the difference between being Norway and being actually in the EU doesn’t seem that huge to me.
The big thing we definitely need is defence guarantees. Eventually America is going to figure out they can’t have us non-violently.
Yep. That’s more or less how I feel.
We’re done with the US but we’re also not joining the EU, although we have great allies there.
That’s weirdly definitive considering most Canadians would support the idea, if it were definitely possible.
I support close ties with the EU but I don’t want Canada to join the EU. The EU has said it’s never going to happen either. A country in North America joining another continent?? Is silly. Having randos in Brussels make decisions for Canada?? No thank you.
The EU has said it’s never going to happen either.
When? I keep hearing this but I’m pretty sure no such statement has been made.
A country in North America joining another continent?? Is silly.
A little, yes.
Having randos in Brussels make decisions for Canada?? No thank you.
So, any level of integration is going to involve that. IIRC Even now we have to respect EU heritage foods designations as part of CETA.
I also dont want canada in the EU, but randos in brussels? Yes we need more democratication of the EU but you still elect the members of the parliament
You mean you are done with the US and you are not joining the EU and not all Canadians feel this way.
A national survey conducted by Abacus Data in late February 2025, involving 1,500 Canadian adults, revealed:
- 44% believe the Canadian government should “definitely or probably” explore joining the EU.
- 34% are opposed to the idea.
- 23% remain undecided.
high level figures in the EU have repeatedly stated that while they appreciate the gesture, Canada wont ever be a member. So its best to abandon those pipe dreams. When it comes down to the details, the EU is a boys club for Western and Central Europe, they dont even treat their Eastern members as anything more than a buffer zone against the Russians,
the EU isnt flawless either, Russia has infiltrated it with trojan horse governments like the Hungarian Fidesz party and the Slovakian SMER party, who embezzle EU funds and politically roadblock motions with their veto. Canada trying to decouple with the US just to dive into the EU is like running from a burning house into a house with a basement meth lab.
high level figures in the EU have repeatedly stated that while they appreciate the gesture, Canada wont ever be a member.
Who? I haven’t heard anything so definitive.
When it comes down to the details, the EU is a boys club for Western and Central Europe, they dont even treat their Eastern members as anything more than a buffer zone against the Russians,
Lol, no. The east gets tons and tons of subsidies. It’s the whole reason Orban still wants to be in the EU.
You’ll also notice new eastern countries are lining up to join while euroskepticism has made headway in your “boy’s club” countries.
the EU isnt flawless either, Russia has infiltrated it with trojan horse governments like the Hungarian Fidesz party and the Slovakian SMER party, who embezzle EU funds and politically roadblock motions with their veto.
Definitely true. The difference is that the US is terminal in a 1933 Germany way, while the EU seems like it might have a bright future.
- Referring to a statement made by Ursula von der Leyen’s spokesperson Paula Pinho of March 2025
(“We are honored with the results of such a poll. It shows the attractiveness of the European Union, and it shows the appreciation of a very large share of Canadian citizens for the EU and its values,” said Paula Pinho, spokesperson for European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen, at the Commission’s Wednesday briefing, before adding that she “will not go into” a possible EU application from Ottawa.")
- The extremely delayed reaction and infighting in European politics and society during what is essentially a code red / five alarm fire in the Russian invasion of Ukraine, has shown that many countries in the EU are willing to sacrifice another for time rather than face the reality that the EU and their way of life is directley being threatened, thus why we’re seeing many countries in the EU having chosen to sit on their hands and wait, for YEARS at this point when the prospect of a third world war is closer than any other point in history other than the cuban missile crisis. When the chips are down, the EU for the longest time showed itself to be one that would rather point fingers, delay, and sacrifice others on the altar.
Polish farmers blocking NATO weapon shipments and railways to a critical combat theatre over a dispute with European markets and Ukrainian Grain, Hungarian vetos blocking EU financial packages to Ukraine, Ukraine has very much become a litmus test for countless issues worldwide, everything from testing the strength of alliances and unions, to testing the rationality and morality of individual people. and the EU has been taking one step forward one step back for much of it, It took them until the US basically took a turn into a terminal illness of fascism, for the major power players, namely France and Germany, to step forward and acknowledge that there can’t be anymoe of this sitting on hands they played for the last 3-5 years as our world swirls the toilet bowl
in short, Yes, those eastern countries get subsidies, but its increasingly being seen as a bribe from one side to the other to keep them on the blue team. while hostile actors like the states with the parties I mentioned, just pocket the money while playing interference for the Russian mob state.___
Thank you for context.
Hungarian vetos blocking EU financial packages to Ukraine
Veto should be a uncriticized power of EU membership. A not particularly creative agreement EU members can make is to fund and benefit from a program budget on which just the approving members decide upon. If you wanted a $100B bill to gift stuff to Ukraine, and Hungary’s share was going to be $1-$5B, then a $95B-$99B bill could be passed among other members.
Thanks. I’d say “will not go into” is decidedly neutral, though. Which isn’t surprising, there’s no point starting a big controversy when nothing is actually on the table yet.
I dont think anyone from the EU is going to take concrete steps to a Canadian application, because they havent concretely ruled out that America wont physically invade it. Its an insane prospect, but this world is already insane.
Europe is already dealing with a hostile Russia, They can probably handle Russia alone, They can’t handle Russia + America, so unless we’re all ready to write it off and Blast each other with nuclear weapons, I think Europe has quietley agreed that if America does turn psycho, and the cost of keeping America Neutral, and not allied with Russia, is sacrificing Canada, they will Sacrifice Canada in a heartbeat. Officially, at least
Unofficially it will just be a fucking shadow war.
let me give you a counter argument as a german citizen:
The EU is still a union of a multitude of countries, all pretty different in their approach on geopolitics, economy and security. But we are a union that has brought peace for the longest time Europe ever had uninterupted. We aren’t totally homogenous when it comes to values, but we align each other pretty well. Hungary, Slovakia, at times Poland (although since 2020 their rhetoric has been largely overlooked) are doing their best blocking progress, but they aren’t really in a position to do so for much longer. Among european unionists and federalists there has also been talk about a multi-level EU model, where you don’t have to 100% commit to EU regulations and laws, and still enjoy the benefit of the european singlemarket, possibly Schengen-Access, or at least visa free.
So, never say never ;)
as others in this same thread have said.
Canada even in its crisis mode facing the prospect of a hostile America, with its whole Canada First, Elbows up rhetoric, is still -extremely- “americanized”. Our ideas of Liberalism and Conservatism are very right wing compared to Europe, much like how the US republicans and democrats are both right wing compared to say, a German or French parliament.
it would take a very long time and a lot of pain and suffering in Canada to move away from the status quo. The NDP are the closest thing to a left wing party in this country and politically, they’re on track to be absolutely eviscerated and effectively dismantled as a party in our election.
I “grew up” with people online since I was a teenager, I’ve visited Europe, I had close friends fromthe UK, Germany Poland and France, I’ve had relationships with people from Ukraine and a Portuguese born UK, I understand the European values and customs… the thing is, people like me are a minority even in Canada. Canadians have grown accustomed to a hybrid system thats kind of like Europe and Kind of like America, and they dont want to fully switch to one team or the other.
The problem is, that hybrid system is no longer tenable. and people are going to kick and scream for as long as possible before they realize they have to draw a line in the sand and choose a side.
Our ideas of Liberalism and Conservatism are very right wing compared to Europe
Sounds like you don’t follow contemporary EU politics too closely, even if you’ve spent time there in the past.
The last time I set foot in Europe was in 2010, so it might as well have been a lifetime ago. the world as a whole of 2010 is completely alien compared to 2025
The far right is a major power bloc over there now, and centrist parties have become openly anti-immigrant and nativist in response. Canada’s way ahead of Europe on tolerance at this point. Even in 2010 Merkel, for example, was plenty fiscally conservative, while Trudeau was elected later and expanded our own spending. There’s other nations that are more interventionist, but Canada wouldn’t be unusual. The far right is also anti-climate action, so we wouldn’t be worst in class on that, although probably below average.
Russia has infiltrated it with trojan horse governments like the Hungarian Fidesz party and the Slovakian SMER party, who embezzle EU funds and politically roadblock motions with their veto
Unfair considering CIA infiltration of rest of EU. Not gaslighting their people with Russophobia warmongering is a sane position that has created FDI and growth exceeding rest of EU, as in rest of free (non US colonized) world.
At any rate, trade deals with EU is awesome to pursue. A political union with extreme hate groups who beg for greater US subservience to increase their hate is very dangerous for Canada to submit to. CIA control over all western democracies makes gaslighting on US resistance easy, and push comes to shove, EU would happily help destroy Canada if it gives them more US brownie points. EU faked interest in a trade deal with Ukraine in 2013, only to have US controlled (with EU puppet votes) IMF sabotage it, and assist in coup against Ukrainian president who trusted EU.
EU is simply not reliable, even if Canadians programming aligns with their current chaos. Canada wanting it more than EU is a recipe for failure.
JFC. You want some people in Brussels deciding stuff for us in Canada?? Fuck no.
I am 100% for close ties with the EU, trade and defense and travel and even work. But in terms of letting randos in Brussels decide on how we should run things for us??? No way.
Paroting brexit campagne without knowing it
Except we were never part of the EU to begin with.
It’s time to part ways with the toxic US.
Hey, what happened to the territories?
Trump deserves nada.
You think it’s somehow fair that he gets 2/3 of a neighbouring country?
No thanks.
We have enough right-wingers in Europe already.Good thing it’s not up to assholes who make ignorant, sweeping generalizations that are likely going to harm Europe more than help it. Personally, I’d sooner chip off my own nutsack than vote right, but hey, don’t let that stop you from being CATEGORICALLY INCORRECT.
So, when you generalize canada in your mind right-wingers is what comes to mind? Or just the govt?
Hard to call Canada not right wing when basically 90% of the country is voting for central right and far right parties. Liberals haven’t been even slightly left leaning for a long time. The most generous way to describe them is a party that uses left leaning policies to achieve right leaning goals.
And yet, we’re way more immigrant-friendly and tolerant than literally anywhere in Europe.
I have no idea what your criteria is here. I’m pretty sure Carney would be mainstream in Germany as well.
Most of the Liberals’ positions is to use the markets to solve social issues. That is completely a right-wing ideology, and the name for it is Liberalism, literally what the party is called. Liberalism is by definition prioritizing the individual actions and limiting government intervention.
While the Liberals do not advocate for small government, they do advocate for minimizing direct government intervention, relying on corporations to do the government’s job. They just are willing to push for social spending to make the markets fix their problems. The problems that have created by the markets because market forces do not have a line in their accounts for morality or public good.
The Liberals do quite a lot of good for the country, since they don’t try to run it like a third world purely resource based nation, but that’s because they’re pretty progressive and understand that resource-based economies don’t last and are fragile. But they are still economy first, people second as a party, a party that prioritizes the capitalist system with only a few concessions for social programs.
Boy do I have news about the founding values of the European Union.
achieve sustainable development based on balanced economic growth and price stability and a highly competitive market economy with full employment and social progress
I mean, it did start out during the Cold War. The other values are given more emphasis but that’s still there.
Yea, but this was back in the times when the left was considered anti-west. Left nowadays just means socialistic policies and is where most of the EU stands. Though far-left is still pretty taboo since it’s equating to communism, far right is lately considered more neo-Nazism rather than unregulated capitalism (though to be fair both are still considered far-right depending on who you ask).
Founding ideals get pretty obsolete and often don’t reflect reality after a few generations. Just look at how much the US talks about their founding ideals and how the country looks nothing like it despite talking about their supposed ideals constantly (like how one of the original ideals was that only rich land owners should be allowed to vote).
Almost 45% of our voting population are voting for the Conservatives. That’s a lot of people who desperately want to be the 51st state and live under authoritarianism and fascism.
Why they don’t just move there is beyond me. I would gladly see every single Conservative voter move to the America they want us to be. Canada don’t need them or their kind.
I’m guessing only a small minority of those voters know that’s what they’re asking for. They were just told everything will get way better immediately and were dumb enough to believe it.
Or, like here, they would literally vote for an aardvark if it was labeled conservative, because tradition.
Wait till you hear about the percentage of Europeans voting hard right (often to the right of PP).
You know damn well that 60+% of that 45% have no idea what you are talking about if you say the words “51st state”.
I am all for shitting on conservatives and liberals alike. But let’s at least be honest with ourselves before smugly wiping.
This is from a European view and while not the US the political spectrum suffers from the same problem.
What some Canadians consider left is only relative.
So this is your ‘liberal’ party?:
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2024/12/30/cypl-d30.htmlAnd it’s a simple verifiable fact that voters decide on the goverment, so maybe it’s only in your mind that they’re not right-wingers.
Maybe it’s an uncomfortable truth?I think your “European” view is overlooking basically all of Eastern Europe, and some of Western Europe too. I’m 100% on board for PIIGS leftism (+Corbyn +Melenchon), but don’t pretend that’s what “left” means everywhere in Europe.
I love how everyone answering this question is taking an aggressive posture like I was defending or attacking something.
Fun stuff. Thanks for answering anyway.
I guess if you find my answer aggressive I’m right that it’s an uncomfortable truth for you.
You said ‘your liberal party’ as if I would ever vote liberal. Swing and a miss there. Liberal is basically an insult to me.
And then you claimed that I would somehow be uncomfortable with what you consider to be the truth. If that isn’t plainly passive aggressive tone then I am a wombat in need of a martini.
All I was asking was if you thought of run-of-the-mill canucks as right-wingers, or if you meant the govt. From that you assumed my position and blithely attacked it.
You are cute though, I’ll give you that.
No…our “liberal” left-wing party is the NDP.
If we write off the US what does that do to our standard of living?
Assuming pipelines are obviously orders of magnitude more efficient than shipping by tanker. It also then still requires a pipeline to the east coast as a first step, which we cant get built due to Quebec, who ironically import all their energy from the US. All these costs and we then have to compete with countries on that continent who can build pipelines to Europe.
Given our small population we are the 4th largest exporter of oil and our loonie essentially tracks oil prices, hence it makes up such a large component of our standard of living. This idea we can pivot seems silly at first glance, but I’d like a differing opinions if one exists.
We’d take a hit for sure. 0 km shipping distance is just a really good deal, even before you build infrastructure. I think I’ve heard it put at 3% permanent GDP loss, which is about the same as being a couple years of growth behind.
I’d advise you to consider what staying with the US could do to us, and how many of your fellow Lemmings might end up in El Salvador. There isn’t really a sacrifice-free option.
All these costs and we then have to compete with countries on that continent who can build pipelines to Europe.
So more or less Russia and Norway. Norway is at capacity last I checked. Russia is obviously not an option. They’re importing from the US and places like the Gulf countries right now to keep the lights on.
Maybe if we are so economically dependent on a finite substance that damages every part of the planet it touches, we should think of changing the priorities of our economy. Quebec is great at producing energy with its hydroelectric plants generating about 1/3 of all electricity generated in Canada. Quebec is also decent at saving energy being only the 8th largest energy use per capita of the provinces.
It is just wrong to claim Quebec imports all its energy from the US when Quebec actually exports a lot of electricity to the US while importing fossil fuels. Quebec could be far more energy independent if it focused on electrifying more stuff, the opposite is true for fossil fuels in Quebec.
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Given your comment history, I doubt it - and definitely not a representing one.
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…what an odd euro-wannabe…
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Wrong.
Canada should join BRICS
Ok we’ll take that under consideration lol. 🤡
Yes, let’s join the countries that run on slavery! Then the conservatives don’t have to hide their plans to convert Canada into the North American branch of China’s slave labour industry.
Canada uses prison labor. They rent out prisoners to private firms for rock bottom wages.
But that’s different, right?
They said BRICS not the EU
Nah, those countries that are behind that are authoritarians.
As expected from a lemmy.ml comment…
Authoritarians? You mean glorious communists! /s
Hungary is in the EU, but they’re white so it doesn’t bother you.
@Sunshine@lemmy.ca said those countries are authoritarian, and your response is to say “so is this one, and you’re racist”?
You’re not even denying Sunshine’s claim, you’re just redirecting to a different topic and attacking the beliefs you prescribed to someone else. Just strawmen and ad hominem attacks. Nice.
Comparing Hungary to China and Russia is like comparing a mosquito to a rabid dog. Yes, Hungary is annoying within the EU, has undemocratic tendencies and Orban should be dealt with, but Russia and China are full on authoritarian regimes. You know this, so you are either a troll or a shill.
either a troll or a shill.
A tankie. To her credit, though, sometimes she makes good points about topics related to communism like class warfare and how exploitative capitalism is. This was not one of those times, unfortunately.
Just a really bad shill take of supporting the authoritarian-“communist” countries that conveniently ignore the communist ideals of no hierarchical power structures and being run by the people.
Here’s the baseless accusation out of nowhere and no I do not like Hungary as Orban has been cracking down on press freedom, persecuting lgbtq+ folks and has been consistently enabling Putin’s crimes against humanity.
Why won’t you apply the same standard to the EU that you do to BRICS?
If BRICS is bad because Russia bad, surely EU is bad because Hungary bad?
Let’s just say that your comparison holds such a large inequivalence and hence makes the questions absurd. Maybe it’s just genuine ignorance or maybe something else…
The other countries are also not well known for upholding human or civil rights
Are Brazil or South Africa any worse than Canada?
Also, let’s not forget the human rights abuses of France in Africa. Formal colonialism might have ended, but neocolonialism continues. France continues to reap the natural resources and exploit the labor of its “former” colonies. Although the recent government changes in the Sahel region might finally kick France out of Africa, and then we’ll see how much they respect human rights.
Also? Let’s not ignore the way asylum seekers are being treated throughout the rest of Europe.
But maybe you don’t care about that either. They’re not white, after all.
so you’re saying Russia and China are totally not presently pillaging Africa then?
Classic whataboutism. We’re not talking about the former colonies here nor asylum seekers. And you are completely out of it. You’re not seeing that colonialism and asylum seekers aren’t the point as they’re persecuted outside their country for the latter or being persecuted by an outside force for the former. In the authoritarian BRICS regimes it’s internal persecution towards their own people. It’s not about skin color.
Also yes Brazil and SA are muchhhhh worse than Canada. Have you been? Clearly not. Cause going in a supermarket in Rio with heavily armed guards on alert cause you’re white which means a robbery could take place any moment targeting you or in SA having to take an uber down the street to not get assaulted and robbed? Yeah.
Care to explain that a bit? I’m not that familiar with BRICS beyond the first paragraph of its Wiki page
There’s a few BRICS member and partner countries in the Western hemisphere already: Brazil, Bolivia, and Cuba. In addition to the current members, the US is pissing all over its partners in Latin America and I think we can expect even more countries to join. If the US really is declining, Canada has to think about who its partners in the Western hemisphere are going to be.
But why join BRICS over the EU? (asking because I don’t know)
BRICS would want us more than EU does. EU would likely play us if their devotion to US empire/hegemony forces can sabotage any trade/membership deal. BRICS are independent of US empire sabotage, and need to break up the evil unipolarism.
Russia and China are involved with Brics. We do not want to become more like them.
Thanks. I’ll give the rest of that BRICS Wikipedia page a glance over to find out more
It would definitely be a good read!
It makes more sense to shore up relations in the Western hemisphere than to go halfway around the world.
Montreal to La Paz Bolivia is almost 7000 km. Montreal to Budapest is 6600ish km. So the western hemisphere also can be half way around the world from Canada. You could reverse it and argue “It makes more sense to shore up relations in the Northern hemisphere than to go halfway around the world.”
Thanks for sharing your perspective :). I think Canada needs to pick options of strategic value, and in that sense I’d guess EU > BRICS for Canada but idk. Bolivia and Cuba are pretty nearby to Canada but otherwise I don’t see the geographic argument so much
China might not be the worst option if you had to pick any of the BRICS countries. Lots of people, not landlocked, and huge potential for business. Canada absolutely shouldn’t trust them for anything involving defense or global politics, but they at least have more stability than we do as a trade partner.
As for trusting BRICS as a whole… fuck no. Least of all, Russia.
But can we not negotiate a mutually beneficial agreement with both? The EU and BRICS?
Maybe! Without the US meddling, anything is possible.
