xAI has moved into an abandoned factory promising jobs and investment. Residents and environmental groups say the new facility is bringing yet more pollution to community that’s long been fighting for clean air
We’ll have to agree to disagree, from my perspective continuing to tolerate their existence when they do great harm without provocation makes someone else a worse person. Though I suppose saying I wish harm is just petty revenge. I’d be even happier if they were removed forever.
Why is it wrong to wish harm on those who wish it upon myself and others? Why is hatred a tool we only allow them to use? They deserve to know exactly how reviled they are and many of them need consequences enforced if they will ever learn or break. No official force has the courage to enforce such justice on them so I take it where I can get it.
The exact same logic they apply to us, the exact same mental processes that make you dehumanize them in your mind. These things are poison for your mental wellbeing, and serve as a distraction from the real enemies: the ruling class. You will never have a working class movement to rise up against the power of the ruling class and capital with this mindset. This type of thinking is one of the obstacles we must overcome if we are ever going to achieve things like a general strike. But you don’t care about that. You want catharsis, schadenfreude, and to take joy in others’ suffering. For what? What purpose does it serve? You’re not speaking to these people. You’re just shitposting on the internet, spreading rhetoric that keeps the working class divided against one another. When you get a chance to talk to these folks, you should absolutely tear into them for their choices, make them face the impact of what they do, and don’t allow them to be comfortable in their ignorance. But this? Posting online about how you like the idea of people being subjected to carcinogens because they “deserve” it? You realize the neighborhoods impacted by this are primarily black, right? You think they deserve this? Are you for real? Log off and join a protest, attend union meetings, something but whatever this is? Think critically about what you’re doing and saying. Your words have power. Most of the people on this forum are left-leaning working class people. Hate makes us weak.
Using the same logic is the point. The goal is dehumanization and then destruction. Make no mistake, the ruling class are included on my list of inhuman trash. Nobody was happier than me when Luigi allegedly did what he did other than hopefully himself. My question for you is why do you assume hatred makes us weak? The most successful political movement for radical change in modern history isn’t motivated by ideology because by and large most people don’t care about things as nebulous as morality and ideology. It’s motivated by anger, by hatred, its galvanized people enough to risk life and limb to raid the capital building on a vague promise, for people to vote against their self interest, to make the hard decision to put their beliefs over personal comfort. United queers, women, nazis, Jews, supremacists, poor and rich alike. Martin Luther King only became palatable because people feared others like Malcolm X and workers rights were only paid for in blood.
You say hatred is our weakness but I think that’s it is one of our great strengths, and we’re tying an arm behind our back in this fight if we refuse to use it. Love is a necessity, a strength but it’s not our only strength, we need to tap into anger, to foster it in order to build a movement that can last and to temper it with love.
As for posting online sure it doesn’t do much, but reading posts online was formative to developing my world views. The right has used internet discourse expertly to brainwash and reach people on a massive scale that in person organizing can’t quite reach. We need to be radicalizing people and finding new and creative ways to do it. So my hope is that somebody is out there feeling helpless, hurt and exhausted because they’ve been trying to love and educate and be strong and that this can help them realize there are other ways to fight back. To foster extremism so that we can push the Overton window back to where the other extremists are afraid to express their opinions in public again because they don’t know what crazy leftist might be listening.
Don’t assume I’m not going to protests even the pathetically ineffective postcard writing ones in my area. But we don’t have unions here, I fielded the idea at my work and was met with laughter and dismissal there’s no appetite for political change here, the only thing that does speak to people here is anger. So I speak the language because civility and reason aren’t the tools for this job. Trust me I’m not just posting online.
All that said, thank you for engaging me. I can see neither of our opinions are likely to change too much and that’s okay. I know who my enemies are and it’s not you so I won’t spend any more time arguing with you. I also don’t expect you to join my crusade but all I’ll ask is that you consider not being so quick to condemn hatred on our side. Try to temper it and challenge us on it sure but don’t blindly condemn us for being weak or ignorant. We should both save our energy for dismantling the ideas of the other side.
We’re both fighting the class war in our own way and i’m fairly certain we both want the same thing long term. Even if we disagree on whether the suffering of our enemy is a victory for us or not. Keep up the good fight in your way Comrade Sneptaur and I’ll keep it up in mine.
This response is one of the most well thought out, compassionate and intelligent replies I’ve had in this type of back-and-forth online in many years. I’m seriously impressed and I absolutely cannot be angry after reading that.
In general, I get it. I am not fighting against the way you are using anger and hate here. After all, hate and love are intrinsically linked. We can’t have one without the other. I do hate billionaires. I do hate corrupt politicians. I am only cautioning against wishing harm on people like so many are doing in this thread (and in many other corners of the Internet). In a reply to someone else earlier, I mentioned that the county most affected by this is primarily black and voted overwhelmingly for Harris in 2024 - about 32/68 for Harris. That is why I push back in the way that I did. I wasn’t very articulate because I was looking for a debate and I didn’t want to write a whole page as a top-level reply.
It’s not going to be easy for us. It’ll take a very long time. I just… I have this deep unrelenting pragmatic optimism in my heart; I believe most people generally want what’s best for everyone. People caught up in identity politics, hate campaigns, whatever – that’s just someone who’s lost their way and is caught up in a distraction. Social media amplifies these patterns often, as does the news media. It’s painful to watch, and it feels like so many people are caught up in hate, always looking for a victory over a perceived enemy rather than looking for a better world for everyone.
One of the things that radicalized me was hearing a socialist online say (while arguing with a republican or something), “I want universal healthcare not just for me and my loved ones, but for you and yours too. Can’t you see that?”
I’m sure I’ll see you around this network again. Keep being excellent, and thank you.
Wishing harm on them does less than nothing to help the situation we’re in. It only makes you a worse person.
We’ll have to agree to disagree, from my perspective continuing to tolerate their existence when they do great harm without provocation makes someone else a worse person. Though I suppose saying I wish harm is just petty revenge. I’d be even happier if they were removed forever.
Don’t tolerate hate, obviously. Just be above wishing harm on people.
Why is it wrong to wish harm on those who wish it upon myself and others? Why is hatred a tool we only allow them to use? They deserve to know exactly how reviled they are and many of them need consequences enforced if they will ever learn or break. No official force has the courage to enforce such justice on them so I take it where I can get it.
The exact same logic they apply to us, the exact same mental processes that make you dehumanize them in your mind. These things are poison for your mental wellbeing, and serve as a distraction from the real enemies: the ruling class. You will never have a working class movement to rise up against the power of the ruling class and capital with this mindset. This type of thinking is one of the obstacles we must overcome if we are ever going to achieve things like a general strike. But you don’t care about that. You want catharsis, schadenfreude, and to take joy in others’ suffering. For what? What purpose does it serve? You’re not speaking to these people. You’re just shitposting on the internet, spreading rhetoric that keeps the working class divided against one another. When you get a chance to talk to these folks, you should absolutely tear into them for their choices, make them face the impact of what they do, and don’t allow them to be comfortable in their ignorance. But this? Posting online about how you like the idea of people being subjected to carcinogens because they “deserve” it? You realize the neighborhoods impacted by this are primarily black, right? You think they deserve this? Are you for real? Log off and join a protest, attend union meetings, something but whatever this is? Think critically about what you’re doing and saying. Your words have power. Most of the people on this forum are left-leaning working class people. Hate makes us weak.
Using the same logic is the point. The goal is dehumanization and then destruction. Make no mistake, the ruling class are included on my list of inhuman trash. Nobody was happier than me when Luigi allegedly did what he did other than hopefully himself. My question for you is why do you assume hatred makes us weak? The most successful political movement for radical change in modern history isn’t motivated by ideology because by and large most people don’t care about things as nebulous as morality and ideology. It’s motivated by anger, by hatred, its galvanized people enough to risk life and limb to raid the capital building on a vague promise, for people to vote against their self interest, to make the hard decision to put their beliefs over personal comfort. United queers, women, nazis, Jews, supremacists, poor and rich alike. Martin Luther King only became palatable because people feared others like Malcolm X and workers rights were only paid for in blood.
You say hatred is our weakness but I think that’s it is one of our great strengths, and we’re tying an arm behind our back in this fight if we refuse to use it. Love is a necessity, a strength but it’s not our only strength, we need to tap into anger, to foster it in order to build a movement that can last and to temper it with love.
As for posting online sure it doesn’t do much, but reading posts online was formative to developing my world views. The right has used internet discourse expertly to brainwash and reach people on a massive scale that in person organizing can’t quite reach. We need to be radicalizing people and finding new and creative ways to do it. So my hope is that somebody is out there feeling helpless, hurt and exhausted because they’ve been trying to love and educate and be strong and that this can help them realize there are other ways to fight back. To foster extremism so that we can push the Overton window back to where the other extremists are afraid to express their opinions in public again because they don’t know what crazy leftist might be listening.
Don’t assume I’m not going to protests even the pathetically ineffective postcard writing ones in my area. But we don’t have unions here, I fielded the idea at my work and was met with laughter and dismissal there’s no appetite for political change here, the only thing that does speak to people here is anger. So I speak the language because civility and reason aren’t the tools for this job. Trust me I’m not just posting online.
All that said, thank you for engaging me. I can see neither of our opinions are likely to change too much and that’s okay. I know who my enemies are and it’s not you so I won’t spend any more time arguing with you. I also don’t expect you to join my crusade but all I’ll ask is that you consider not being so quick to condemn hatred on our side. Try to temper it and challenge us on it sure but don’t blindly condemn us for being weak or ignorant. We should both save our energy for dismantling the ideas of the other side.
We’re both fighting the class war in our own way and i’m fairly certain we both want the same thing long term. Even if we disagree on whether the suffering of our enemy is a victory for us or not. Keep up the good fight in your way Comrade Sneptaur and I’ll keep it up in mine.
This response is one of the most well thought out, compassionate and intelligent replies I’ve had in this type of back-and-forth online in many years. I’m seriously impressed and I absolutely cannot be angry after reading that.
In general, I get it. I am not fighting against the way you are using anger and hate here. After all, hate and love are intrinsically linked. We can’t have one without the other. I do hate billionaires. I do hate corrupt politicians. I am only cautioning against wishing harm on people like so many are doing in this thread (and in many other corners of the Internet). In a reply to someone else earlier, I mentioned that the county most affected by this is primarily black and voted overwhelmingly for Harris in 2024 - about 32/68 for Harris. That is why I push back in the way that I did. I wasn’t very articulate because I was looking for a debate and I didn’t want to write a whole page as a top-level reply.
It’s not going to be easy for us. It’ll take a very long time. I just… I have this deep unrelenting pragmatic optimism in my heart; I believe most people generally want what’s best for everyone. People caught up in identity politics, hate campaigns, whatever – that’s just someone who’s lost their way and is caught up in a distraction. Social media amplifies these patterns often, as does the news media. It’s painful to watch, and it feels like so many people are caught up in hate, always looking for a victory over a perceived enemy rather than looking for a better world for everyone.
One of the things that radicalized me was hearing a socialist online say (while arguing with a republican or something), “I want universal healthcare not just for me and my loved ones, but for you and yours too. Can’t you see that?”
I’m sure I’ll see you around this network again. Keep being excellent, and thank you.