As others have mentioned democratic socialism is a form of socialism.
Socialism is a society where people own and run things together, without capitalism or feudalism or whatever. It is the idea that everyone should own their workplace and their home, either directly or through a state/community they own with everyone else in it. The spirit of socialism is removing all exploitative systems in favor of cooperative solutions. It would mean no renting out locales or apartments, and no bosses (as in owners) etc. There is also this idea that capital and currency should not be a thing as it tends to quickly go into the hands of a few over time, and so we are therefore often in favor of other systems of distributing goods.
Social democracy is liberalism (a form of capitalism) but with social safety nets and systems to limit the harm that capitalism can do, such as strong unions and labor laws. Originally social democracy was implemented by socialists who wanted to slowly bring about socialism, but it has mellowed out a lot and now it’s just what you and I describe.
Edit: I feel I should mention that social democracy is generally considered to be in decline. Union participation is down, things are being privatized, labor laws revoked. The socially democratic parties have not just mellowed out it seems, but have drifted right. They often seem more concerned with maintaining the status quo than with improving society.
The problem with utopian socialism is people, as always. There will always some sumbich that will take advantage of the system, as in all real socialisms, like USSR, China, NK, Cuba…
I think that utopian socialism is beautiful, but it doesn’t take into account human behaviors like greed, hate, rancor, etc… And the people able to capitalize on that.
While some of those came about through socialist revolutions they were hijacked by the military who retained the socialist rhetoric. The actual state that followed the revolutions were never socialist, they were at best military dictatorships with some social policies comparable to social democracies.
The USSR is interesting as it was a planned economy. The others are just state capitalist however.
You should read about the revolutions and how they failed! It was never the socialism itself that failed, because it was never implemented in the first place! That’s the difficult part.
In general the more egalitarian the system the more obstacles to implement as those who own things have less incentives to implement it (and will do whatever they can to squash it or redirect it). It’s not coincidence that liberalism came about only after we got capitalists and a sizeable middle class. We ddin’t get democracy because it is a good system, we got it because it was a way for capitalists and the middle class to gain political power. With socialism there is no upper class that will support the revolution, no businesses or government will be on our side because it directly threatens them.
We have a word for those who claim they are a socialist yet support the states you mentioned. We call them tankies. Socialists and anarchists despise them because they are in many ways just like fascists, yet they try to worm their way into our spaces.
Edit:
I think that utopian socialism is beautiful, but it doesn’t take into account human behaviors like greed, hate, rancor, etc
It specifically does! Also utopian socialism is not a thing these days!
I didn’t even notice I was 196-ing when I commented.
If Ada and the comm are explicitly anti-tankie I’d be neither surprised nor disappointed. Fair enough. I’m happy to browse .ml but really have no problem understanding why other corners of the fediverse / Lemmy avoid them. Not that all .ml uses are Tankies but, yeah. Blahajists have enough shit to deal with just by existing… best of luck to them all. 🫡
I see americans saying this fairly often, but what you describe is social democracy, not democratic socialism
I generally use the terms interchangeably. Are there fundamental differences?
Yes.
As others have mentioned democratic socialism is a form of socialism.
Socialism is a society where people own and run things together, without capitalism or feudalism or whatever. It is the idea that everyone should own their workplace and their home, either directly or through a state/community they own with everyone else in it. The spirit of socialism is removing all exploitative systems in favor of cooperative solutions. It would mean no renting out locales or apartments, and no bosses (as in owners) etc. There is also this idea that capital and currency should not be a thing as it tends to quickly go into the hands of a few over time, and so we are therefore often in favor of other systems of distributing goods.
Social democracy is liberalism (a form of capitalism) but with social safety nets and systems to limit the harm that capitalism can do, such as strong unions and labor laws. Originally social democracy was implemented by socialists who wanted to slowly bring about socialism, but it has mellowed out a lot and now it’s just what you and I describe.
Edit: I feel I should mention that social democracy is generally considered to be in decline. Union participation is down, things are being privatized, labor laws revoked. The socially democratic parties have not just mellowed out it seems, but have drifted right. They often seem more concerned with maintaining the status quo than with improving society.
I think most democratic socialists end up implementing social democratic policies because there’s only so much reformism can do.
The problem with utopian socialism is people, as always. There will always some sumbich that will take advantage of the system, as in all real socialisms, like USSR, China, NK, Cuba…
I think that utopian socialism is beautiful, but it doesn’t take into account human behaviors like greed, hate, rancor, etc… And the people able to capitalize on that.
Haha no :P
While some of those came about through socialist revolutions they were hijacked by the military who retained the socialist rhetoric. The actual state that followed the revolutions were never socialist, they were at best military dictatorships with some social policies comparable to social democracies.
The USSR is interesting as it was a planned economy. The others are just state capitalist however.
You should read about the revolutions and how they failed! It was never the socialism itself that failed, because it was never implemented in the first place! That’s the difficult part.
In general the more egalitarian the system the more obstacles to implement as those who own things have less incentives to implement it (and will do whatever they can to squash it or redirect it). It’s not coincidence that liberalism came about only after we got capitalists and a sizeable middle class. We ddin’t get democracy because it is a good system, we got it because it was a way for capitalists and the middle class to gain political power. With socialism there is no upper class that will support the revolution, no businesses or government will be on our side because it directly threatens them.
We have a word for those who claim they are a socialist yet support the states you mentioned. We call them tankies. Socialists and anarchists despise them because they are in many ways just like fascists, yet they try to worm their way into our spaces.
Edit:
It specifically does! Also utopian socialism is not a thing these days!
Nice to see the word “tankie” used in its proper context; for once.
This community is explicitly anti-tankie by the actual meaning of the word, so we like to use it properly!
I didn’t even notice I was 196-ing when I commented.
If Ada and the comm are explicitly anti-tankie I’d be neither surprised nor disappointed. Fair enough. I’m happy to browse .ml but really have no problem understanding why other corners of the fediverse / Lemmy avoid them. Not that all .ml uses are Tankies but, yeah. Blahajists have enough shit to deal with just by existing… best of luck to them all. 🫡
I’m in .ml, severely anti-tankie and also a mod here. It is the main dev instance and has some of the largest tech communities in Lemmy.