Alternative point of view: maybe if British and French didn’t colonise those countries, there wouldn’t be this LOOTING. Do people in Britain and France practice LOOTING their own relics? Do you think LOOTING is an inherent trait of savages or maybe there’s some other reason like British and French people destroying their country?
This take is hilariously racist. “Primitive non-europeans were innocent passengers of history living in paradise”. People in other areas of the world weren’t that different to Europe, they just didn’t have the same technology.
“Looting” isn’t something unique to Europe, finding old things magical/mysterious isn’t something unique to Europe.
Especially in regards to Egypt which had famously been looted since forever. The day after someone was buried in an extravagant mastaba someone probably started planning how to dig it up.
This take is hilariously racist. “Primitive non-europeans were innocent passengers of history living in paradise”.
It does sound racist. However I never said it, so please don’t attribute it to me.
I replied to a comment claiming that stealing other nations relics by the Europeans is a good thing because otherwise natives would have looted it later(as they sometimes did). My point is that this looting later might be the result of Europeans involvement.
I think it’s reasonable to say that if those relics Europeans stole were not looted before the Europeans arrived there’s no indication they would have been looted if the Europeans didn’t arrive.
So overall the idea by OP that looting by Europeans is a good thing because it preserved some of the relics is a bad take in my opinion.
maybe if British and French didn’t colonise those countries, there wouldn’t be this LOOTING
However I never said it, so please don’t attribute it to me.
Reads like youre saying it
I think it’s reasonable to say that if those relics Europeans stole were not looted before the Europeans arrived there’s no indication they would have been looted if the Europeans didn’t arrive.
How do you explain all the looting that had already happened before the Europeans arrived then? Not like the temples or pyramids were still filled with valuables and relics when Europeans showed up and picked them clean.
Most historical artefacts are sadly lost to time and short-sighted greed.
Hmm, maybe my English is this bad but I think there’s a big difference between general “looting” you are talking about that people do sometimes and “this looting” OP post is talking about that happened after the Europeans plundered the country and left. I mean that’s the whole point of the discussion: is it justified to steal other people relics under the pretext that the people whose lives you made miserable later looted some of the artefacts you didn’t steal? My answer is “no, it’s still stealing” even though it may have been better for the relics.
How do you explain all the looting that had already happened before the Europeans arrived then?
It happens, as you said(and I agree) people do loot sometimes, the harder their lives are(like being colonized for example) the more they do it.
Not like the temples or pyramids were still filled with valuables and relics when Europeans showed up and picked them clean
Well we know for a fact there still was a lot left, so you need to explain then how the artefacts the Europeans stole were not looted before for many many years.
the people whose lives you made miserable later looted some of the artefacts you didn’t steal?
Im not sure if its on purpose but youve changed the timeline here, the artefacts were looted before not after europeans showed up.
the harder their lives are(like being colonized for example) the more they do it.
The point Im trying to highlight is that the vast majority of artefacts were looted/lost before anyone got colonised.
Well we know for a fact there still was a lot left, so you need to explain then how the artefacts the Europeans stole were not looted before for many many years.
Im no historian so take this with a grain of salt. The easy-to-find valuables were looted by random individuals over the course of history and sold off. The ones ruling Egypt at the time couldnt or wouldnt protect these sites. Then Europeans showed up with equipment and a scientific method, understanding the need to finding and preserve the past. The easy-to-find stuff was naturally already gone so they had to start excavating and searching the low odds regions.
The only reason why Tutankhamun is so famous today, he was a pretty unimportant pharao, is because his tomb was found by a modern archeologist and his relics ware preserved. The more famous pharaonic tombs were looted long before any Europeans showed up and therefor lost to history
Im not sure if its on purpose but youve changed the timeline here, the artefacts were looted before not after europeans showed up.
Oh, I reread the original comment and you are right, it is talking about looting over time before the colonization, not after. I feel stupid now. Thank you for being patient with me.
Tombs were robbed since whey were first made. The pyramids had protective measures to keep them away, ask yourself why they’re put them there in the first place. Abbott Papyrus is a document from 3000 years ago that describes tomb robbery. Fact is, people have been thieving ever since someone had something more than the other.
I don’t understand how it relates to my comment which criticised the idea that Europeans stealing relics is a good thing because otherwise the natives would have stolen them.
Alternative point of view: maybe if British and French didn’t colonise those countries, there wouldn’t be this LOOTING. Do people in Britain and France practice LOOTING their own relics? Do you think LOOTING is an inherent trait of savages or maybe there’s some other reason like British and French people destroying their country?
This take is hilariously racist. “Primitive non-europeans were innocent passengers of history living in paradise”. People in other areas of the world weren’t that different to Europe, they just didn’t have the same technology.
“Looting” isn’t something unique to Europe, finding old things magical/mysterious isn’t something unique to Europe.
Especially in regards to Egypt which had famously been looted since forever. The day after someone was buried in an extravagant mastaba someone probably started planning how to dig it up.
It does sound racist. However I never said it, so please don’t attribute it to me.
I replied to a comment claiming that stealing other nations relics by the Europeans is a good thing because otherwise natives would have looted it later(as they sometimes did). My point is that this looting later might be the result of Europeans involvement.
I think it’s reasonable to say that if those relics Europeans stole were not looted before the Europeans arrived there’s no indication they would have been looted if the Europeans didn’t arrive.
So overall the idea by OP that looting by Europeans is a good thing because it preserved some of the relics is a bad take in my opinion.
Reads like youre saying it
How do you explain all the looting that had already happened before the Europeans arrived then? Not like the temples or pyramids were still filled with valuables and relics when Europeans showed up and picked them clean.
Most historical artefacts are sadly lost to time and short-sighted greed.
Hmm, maybe my English is this bad but I think there’s a big difference between general “looting” you are talking about that people do sometimes and “this looting” OP post is talking about that happened after the Europeans plundered the country and left. I mean that’s the whole point of the discussion: is it justified to steal other people relics under the pretext that the people whose lives you made miserable later looted some of the artefacts you didn’t steal? My answer is “no, it’s still stealing” even though it may have been better for the relics.
It happens, as you said(and I agree) people do loot sometimes, the harder their lives are(like being colonized for example) the more they do it.
Well we know for a fact there still was a lot left, so you need to explain then how the artefacts the Europeans stole were not looted before for many many years.
Im not sure if its on purpose but youve changed the timeline here, the artefacts were looted before not after europeans showed up.
The point Im trying to highlight is that the vast majority of artefacts were looted/lost before anyone got colonised.
Im no historian so take this with a grain of salt. The easy-to-find valuables were looted by random individuals over the course of history and sold off. The ones ruling Egypt at the time couldnt or wouldnt protect these sites. Then Europeans showed up with equipment and a scientific method, understanding the need to finding and preserve the past. The easy-to-find stuff was naturally already gone so they had to start excavating and searching the low odds regions.
The only reason why Tutankhamun is so famous today, he was a pretty unimportant pharao, is because his tomb was found by a modern archeologist and his relics ware preserved. The more famous pharaonic tombs were looted long before any Europeans showed up and therefor lost to history
Oh, I reread the original comment and you are right, it is talking about looting over time before the colonization, not after. I feel stupid now. Thank you for being patient with me.
Dont feel bad, making mistakes is human. Owning a mistake is a show of character.
Ancient Egyptians made anti-looting measures on their graves because ancient Egyptians were already looting graves.
It seems those measures were effective since those relics were preserved up to the time Europeans stole them.
Tombs were robbed since whey were first made. The pyramids had protective measures to keep them away, ask yourself why they’re put them there in the first place. Abbott Papyrus is a document from 3000 years ago that describes tomb robbery. Fact is, people have been thieving ever since someone had something more than the other.
I don’t understand how it relates to my comment which criticised the idea that Europeans stealing relics is a good thing because otherwise the natives would have stolen them.
Grave robbers have been around as long as there have been ornate graves. It was a noted problem in Ancient Egypt.
I don’t think “Steal the items first” is much of a solution, but let’s not pretend that looting is something that was kicked off by the Euros.
Historically? Uh, yes.
Looting is an inherent trait of any sufficiently large human society (ie over maybe 100 people)
So we agree that “stealing to preserve” is a bad argument.
Yes.
Over a span of 5000 years and the tombs only got robbed when the British and French showed up yes
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