Oh look it’s not just Newsom and that rep from Georgia anymore. The spineless democrats are testing the waters now to see how throwing trans people under the bus will go.
It is not throwing trans people under the bus to keep trans women out of competitive female sports.
This needs to stop being a hill that people want to die on. It’s fucking rediculous to argue they should be allowed to participate in a discriminatory category we created intentionally to allow non-competitive persons to have their own competition.
Sorry trans women, theres literally one extremely specific thing you aren’t allowed to do. I support you in literally any other life endeavor, or in playing that sport recreationally or competitively in an open gender category.
Calling women athletes “non-competitive” tells us what you think of women athletes.
There are competitive sports where gender literally doesn’t matter (like darts.) There are sports that require subdivisions within them to allow equally skilled athletes of different physiological builds to compete (boxing.)
The thing is, sports regulatory bodies were already making the decisions of how trans and intersex athletes can compete. To say that trans athletes should be kept out of all competitive female sports shows that you either have it in for trans people or you just don’t understand sports.
And no one yet has given a coherent argument for why the government should be involved.
You and I both know that women are not competitive with men in most sports. You pretending that they are (or could be) is just a bad faith argument.
The darts argument is also in bad faith, there’s no restriction in the primary darts tournament series based on gender at all, and they do not have a separate women’s category for the normal tournaments. There are a handful of women’s only events, but they are not part of the main tours in which anyone can compete.
Find me an example of a professional female boxer beating a professional male boxer within the same weight class. I’ll wait. Here’s arguably one of the best female boxers, with a 54-0 record and multiple world titles. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucia_Rijker,
She got KOed in the second round by an amateur kickboxer, who was male and 10 pounds lighter than her (1-2 weight classes down depending on the ruleset). He wasn’t as good on technique, but just cleaned her out with more speed and power anyways.
The whole point of having a women’s category is to allow fair competition. Allowing trans women to compete breaks that fairness principle. Just like any sort of doping breaks that fairness principle. If something is possibly unfair, then it’s unfair. Even if most people don’t gain an advantage, it’s still unfair. Unfairness cannot be allowed in competition, it ruins the whole thing.
You’re right that the government shouldn’t be involved, but they were getting banned by sports bodies left right and center for competing unfairly, so it’s the same outcome. The government should still back off and lets sports bodies do it, but it won’t change the inevitable outcome.
Do you have examples of non government intervention here? It seems like most organizations were in the process of rewriting their rules to be more inclusive which is why conservatives turned this into a panic.
World Athletics goes even further, banning any transgender woman who went through male puberty from rankings AND also banning some female at birth women in the ban if they have certain sex-disorders and don’t keep their testosterone levels extremely low.
I’m not sure any of these groups are writing them to be more inclusive, unless they simply had no policy before. Lots of the groups that allowed them are even increasing the restrictions, since the old guidelines around testosterone less than 10 nmol seem to have been found to be insufficient and some of those groups have dropped it to 5 instead.
Testosterone is a hell of a performance enhancing drug.
In that first article it notes that the instigating decision was the olympic comittee relaxing testosterone requirements and allowing individual sports to make determinations.
The FINA does straight up allow trans men into men’s sports. If you read the FINA policies one of the ways for a trans woman to compete is to have started puberty blockers at 12 yrs old and maintain normal female levels (less than 15 nmol) whereas the target for therapy is 50 nmol (standard male levels are 300+ with 500 being typical)
So the weird thing here is that it’s not uncommon to see cis women with ~20-30nmol especially among career athletes where they’re already selecting for oddities. The criticism here seems understandandable; I’m not sure its entirely about fairness.
I think the thing that’s crazy about that is that it basically excludes every trans person because its almost impossible to get on blockers that early.
The boxing rules are just sad. How dumb.
Its important to note though these are international orgs targetting top athletes. I’m not sure governments can regulate them. The state intervention being requested is to remove like 2k kids nationwide from like junior varsity teams.
Trans men in men’s categories is a non-issue. It’s a non-issue for a reason, they have no advantage and they’re usually at a disadvantage. There are like a half dozen famous attempts of trans men who have tried to break into competitive mens sports, and none of them have been successful at climbing the rankings or winning any significant competitions, any medals I’ve seen are like (they won silver at the 34-40 age category for Duathalon - This was Chris Mosier) where yes it’s technically competitive, but nobody is winning any prize money.
The public generally speaking doesn’t have any issue with trans men competing against men.
This is the opposite in women’s sports, despite making up such a small portion of the population, there have been more than a few instances of trans women medaling in international competition.
Lia Thomas did such a significant amount of harm to the trans image because of her choices in this regard, but she is living proof that transitioning CAN be unfair in women’s sports. When something can be unfair in competition, it needs to be banned.
At the end of the day, I wish trans women all the opportunities of the world, except competitive women’s sports.
Again though the entire so-called “trans sports” debate is not actually about international sports associations. Its about whether the government should ban trans people from sports altogether at amateur / school sports teams.
Its surprising how often these things are conflated.
Separate but equal, total neolib move that’s super classy. “Your discomfort is tolerable because I don’t have to deal with it”
Also this is not the only example of dems throwing trans under the bus. The far more egregious example is newsom going on right winger podcasts and giving validity to the utter bullshit of the cass review and the idea that you shouldn’t be allowed to transition until your mid 20s (plus all the sports bullshit). Backing legislature that is anti trans too. not just sports stuff, though there is a lot of that. The NDAA banning trans care for any military children was voted in by several democrats and some states did the same for Medicaid with dem support. Texas’s bathroom bill had some dem support. Memorializing Charlie Kirk, a total shithead who was openly and vehemently anti trans. Etc
No spine, no moral code. End result is a minority class that has constant existential anxiety because one side actively wants to destroy them and the other is like “supporting you is like a whole thing, I’m just in this for the donor money”
Wouldn’t women have to deal with “discomfort” from losing to males they have no chance of beating?
Do you understand that you’re implying all women are physically inferior to all men? That a man could never lose a race to a woman?
Or do you think we should always exclude all the top athletes because everyone else would also feel “discomfort from losing to [people] they have no chance of beating?"
Your rhetoric matches that of notable asshole Riley Gaines who competed and tied against Lia Thompson at UPenn then went on to become a maga darling on this issue specifically and eventually just on trans hatred. The linked article is about her rhetoric and how she believes trans sports is the wedge issue to remove trans rights altogether by progressively erasing more and more. They won’t stop here.
Otherwise the trans issue has been debated to death but essentially if someone has been on hrt for a significant period of time the picture is far muddier than what you portray.
Don’t order me around. Maybe face the fact that you are bedfellows with fascist garbage that are using this wedge issue as a foot in the door to completely eradicate what they call “trans ideology” (a fucked up term).
I do have to say that because the issue is overly nuanced and you appear to want to dumb it down to a single issue. Thus: muddier. Hrt for 1-2+ years significantly lowers muscle mass and upper and lower body strength. Hemoglobin is lowered and stamina is impacted. Many of the competitive advantages are neutralized, but not all. Depending on the sport essentially all are. Wingspan and hand size do not change (unless transition started very early, which is another issue that right wing assholes try to block, but that’s a whole separate thing). So what sport? Rowing? More debatable. Golf? Less debatable. Transition started very early, like 7-8 years old? Less debatable.
See? Muddy, nuanced. But again, this has been discussed to death but you morons dont listen and keep just focusing on its not fair because biology even though your understanding of biology apparently ended in 8th grade with a c- in the class
It really doesn’t. The polling on this issue is very clear, even trans supporters aren’t very in favour of it and its causing a massive backlash against trans rights in general.
Oh look it’s not just Newsom and that rep from Georgia anymore. The spineless democrats are testing the waters now to see how throwing trans people under the bus will go.
It is not throwing trans people under the bus to keep trans women out of competitive female sports.
This needs to stop being a hill that people want to die on. It’s fucking rediculous to argue they should be allowed to participate in a discriminatory category we created intentionally to allow non-competitive persons to have their own competition.
Sorry trans women, theres literally one extremely specific thing you aren’t allowed to do. I support you in literally any other life endeavor, or in playing that sport recreationally or competitively in an open gender category.
Calling women athletes “non-competitive” tells us what you think of women athletes.
There are competitive sports where gender literally doesn’t matter (like darts.) There are sports that require subdivisions within them to allow equally skilled athletes of different physiological builds to compete (boxing.)
The thing is, sports regulatory bodies were already making the decisions of how trans and intersex athletes can compete. To say that trans athletes should be kept out of all competitive female sports shows that you either have it in for trans people or you just don’t understand sports.
And no one yet has given a coherent argument for why the government should be involved.
You and I both know that women are not competitive with men in most sports. You pretending that they are (or could be) is just a bad faith argument.
The darts argument is also in bad faith, there’s no restriction in the primary darts tournament series based on gender at all, and they do not have a separate women’s category for the normal tournaments. There are a handful of women’s only events, but they are not part of the main tours in which anyone can compete.
Find me an example of a professional female boxer beating a professional male boxer within the same weight class. I’ll wait. Here’s arguably one of the best female boxers, with a 54-0 record and multiple world titles. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucia_Rijker, She got KOed in the second round by an amateur kickboxer, who was male and 10 pounds lighter than her (1-2 weight classes down depending on the ruleset). He wasn’t as good on technique, but just cleaned her out with more speed and power anyways.
The whole point of having a women’s category is to allow fair competition. Allowing trans women to compete breaks that fairness principle. Just like any sort of doping breaks that fairness principle. If something is possibly unfair, then it’s unfair. Even if most people don’t gain an advantage, it’s still unfair. Unfairness cannot be allowed in competition, it ruins the whole thing.
You’re right that the government shouldn’t be involved, but they were getting banned by sports bodies left right and center for competing unfairly, so it’s the same outcome. The government should still back off and lets sports bodies do it, but it won’t change the inevitable outcome.
Politicians shouldn’t be regulating sports. Period.
Sure, but many sports have banned it without the government’s intervention. So my point still stands.
Do you have examples of non government intervention here? It seems like most organizations were in the process of rewriting their rules to be more inclusive which is why conservatives turned this into a panic.
FINA (The world Swimming body) banned them a few years ago. https://www.npr.org/2022/06/19/1106173020/swimming-bans-transgender-women
World Boxing banned them recently. https://worldboxing.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/08/World-Boxing-Sex-Eligibility-Policy_FINAL_20Aug25.pdf
World Rugby banned them as well. https://www.npr.org/2022/06/19/1106173020/swimming-bans-transgender-women
World Athletics goes even further, banning any transgender woman who went through male puberty from rankings AND also banning some female at birth women in the ban if they have certain sex-disorders and don’t keep their testosterone levels extremely low.
I’m not sure any of these groups are writing them to be more inclusive, unless they simply had no policy before. Lots of the groups that allowed them are even increasing the restrictions, since the old guidelines around testosterone less than 10 nmol seem to have been found to be insufficient and some of those groups have dropped it to 5 instead.
Testosterone is a hell of a performance enhancing drug.
In that first article it notes that the instigating decision was the olympic comittee relaxing testosterone requirements and allowing individual sports to make determinations.
The FINA does straight up allow trans men into men’s sports. If you read the FINA policies one of the ways for a trans woman to compete is to have started puberty blockers at 12 yrs old and maintain normal female levels (less than 15 nmol) whereas the target for therapy is 50 nmol (standard male levels are 300+ with 500 being typical)
So the weird thing here is that it’s not uncommon to see cis women with ~20-30nmol especially among career athletes where they’re already selecting for oddities. The criticism here seems understandandable; I’m not sure its entirely about fairness.
I think the thing that’s crazy about that is that it basically excludes every trans person because its almost impossible to get on blockers that early.
The boxing rules are just sad. How dumb.
Its important to note though these are international orgs targetting top athletes. I’m not sure governments can regulate them. The state intervention being requested is to remove like 2k kids nationwide from like junior varsity teams.
Trans men in men’s categories is a non-issue. It’s a non-issue for a reason, they have no advantage and they’re usually at a disadvantage. There are like a half dozen famous attempts of trans men who have tried to break into competitive mens sports, and none of them have been successful at climbing the rankings or winning any significant competitions, any medals I’ve seen are like (they won silver at the 34-40 age category for Duathalon - This was Chris Mosier) where yes it’s technically competitive, but nobody is winning any prize money.
The public generally speaking doesn’t have any issue with trans men competing against men.
This is the opposite in women’s sports, despite making up such a small portion of the population, there have been more than a few instances of trans women medaling in international competition.
Lia Thomas did such a significant amount of harm to the trans image because of her choices in this regard, but she is living proof that transitioning CAN be unfair in women’s sports. When something can be unfair in competition, it needs to be banned.
At the end of the day, I wish trans women all the opportunities of the world, except competitive women’s sports.
Again though the entire so-called “trans sports” debate is not actually about international sports associations. Its about whether the government should ban trans people from sports altogether at amateur / school sports teams.
Its surprising how often these things are conflated.
Separate but equal, total neolib move that’s super classy. “Your discomfort is tolerable because I don’t have to deal with it”
Also this is not the only example of dems throwing trans under the bus. The far more egregious example is newsom going on right winger podcasts and giving validity to the utter bullshit of the cass review and the idea that you shouldn’t be allowed to transition until your mid 20s (plus all the sports bullshit). Backing legislature that is anti trans too. not just sports stuff, though there is a lot of that. The NDAA banning trans care for any military children was voted in by several democrats and some states did the same for Medicaid with dem support. Texas’s bathroom bill had some dem support. Memorializing Charlie Kirk, a total shithead who was openly and vehemently anti trans. Etc
No spine, no moral code. End result is a minority class that has constant existential anxiety because one side actively wants to destroy them and the other is like “supporting you is like a whole thing, I’m just in this for the donor money”
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Do you understand that you’re implying all women are physically inferior to all men? That a man could never lose a race to a woman?
Or do you think we should always exclude all the top athletes because everyone else would also feel “discomfort from losing to [people] they have no chance of beating?"
Your rhetoric matches that of notable asshole Riley Gaines who competed and tied against Lia Thompson at UPenn then went on to become a maga darling on this issue specifically and eventually just on trans hatred. The linked article is about her rhetoric and how she believes trans sports is the wedge issue to remove trans rights altogether by progressively erasing more and more. They won’t stop here.
Otherwise the trans issue has been debated to death but essentially if someone has been on hrt for a significant period of time the picture is far muddier than what you portray.
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Don’t order me around. Maybe face the fact that you are bedfellows with fascist garbage that are using this wedge issue as a foot in the door to completely eradicate what they call “trans ideology” (a fucked up term).
I do have to say that because the issue is overly nuanced and you appear to want to dumb it down to a single issue. Thus: muddier. Hrt for 1-2+ years significantly lowers muscle mass and upper and lower body strength. Hemoglobin is lowered and stamina is impacted. Many of the competitive advantages are neutralized, but not all. Depending on the sport essentially all are. Wingspan and hand size do not change (unless transition started very early, which is another issue that right wing assholes try to block, but that’s a whole separate thing). So what sport? Rowing? More debatable. Golf? Less debatable. Transition started very early, like 7-8 years old? Less debatable.
See? Muddy, nuanced. But again, this has been discussed to death but you morons dont listen and keep just focusing on its not fair because biology even though your understanding of biology apparently ended in 8th grade with a c- in the class
It’s ridiculous your politicians are concerning themselves with school sporting or just sporting events in general.
Leave the schools and sport orgs to decide if they can compete.
There are much more serious problems to deal with than this nonsense
This applies to you and your position at least as much as the people you’re talking about
It really doesn’t. The polling on this issue is very clear, even trans supporters aren’t very in favour of it and its causing a massive backlash against trans rights in general.