“Ineligible for recommendation”. Turns out that freedom of speech was when TikTok was Chinese.

To be entirely honest, i don’t know what our “values” are anymore.

That’s the normal thought now, and not “At least compared to our declared current enemies, you’re allowed to criticize our government without consequences” :

In a speech of 355 b.c., Demosthenes rightly remarks that the most important difference between the political systems of Athens and Sparta is that at Athens it is permitted to praise that of Sparta and denigrate one’s own, whereas at Sparta no one may praise any system other than the Spartan. (Dem.20,§106)

That’s the basis of freedom, and once we lose that, what are we left with ?
A bourgeois “democracy” where medias are owned by the capitalists and citizens-owned medias are increasingly threatened of disinformation ? When you’re choosing the least bad and are surrendering your power to elected people that often decide in private, and almost never once through referendums.
A rule of law with many lawfare cases proving a lack of independence from the government ? Where money can buy good lawyers, and blue-collar crimes are treated way harsher for the same sum of money stolen than white-collar crimes ? And the latter is even legalized under fiscal “optimization”, and laws promoted by their lobbying.

Without painting other countries as even worse, what values are we left with ?
I literally have hundreds of such examples : https://x.com/i/status/2012799140061659566
That is even more shocking than censorship : https://x.com/i/status/2014796564624253394
And many dozens of journalists because they were supporting Russia https://x.com/i/status/2014655503616405681
And our “leaders” don’t seem to realize that critizing ourselves is the basis of our system(, and that unlike countries victims of our attacks we don’t even have such excuses) : https://x.com/i/status/2012724357072892409
The e.u., u.k., and Australia, are multiplying laws restricting what they’re deeming illegal speech. They already proved their intent with covid, and are even acknowledging that it’d be a dictatorship if they directly regulated social media posts(, but since it’ll be indirectly through proxy organizations such as EUvsDisinfo instead of WarOnFakes, then it’s all right 🙄).

Additions from other posts&comments :

If i understood correctly, mexicans would need to work 3-4 times more in order to buy the same thing :

So much “justice”.

Has anyone here ever looked at what a normal oil contract looks like ? That is just plain robbery and it’s considered normal. Once an oil company reimbursed its expenses(, cost oil), it won’t ever gift the equipment/… to the state but keep it to themselves, nor will they stop there because they need to make a profit, but even once they’ve had a 20% ROI it’s still not enough, it’s never enough, so they won’t say that the remaining profit afterwards will be 100% for the state and its population but, e.g., 60-40 for the state, or at best 80-20, and they’ll also lie on the real price of the cost oil, and prevent countries to do 100% of the initial investments/risks in order to gain 100% of the profits, and it’s not just about oil.

You probably already know that Mohammad Mossadegh in Iran was overthrown by the west two years after nationalizing Iran’s oil in 1958, but did you know that the same thing happened a decade earlier for Rómulo Gallegos, 9 months after implementing a 50-50 share of Venezuela’s oil in 1948 ?
He wasn’t replaced by a western-backed bloodthirsty king, but by one of our many western-backed bloodthirsty dictator, Pérez Jiménez, who received the Legion of Merit in 1954 for its anti-communist activities.
Guatemala also had a similar experience when it nationalized territories from the United Fruit Company(, 1954), or when S.Allende nationalized copper in 1971, or Syria in 1949, Congo in 1960, … Because their ressources are ours.
They should increase the prices of the raw materials as OPEC did in 1973, unite together, and nationalize their ressources. They’ll be sanctioned/overthrown/attacked/invaded/…

In regard to the apparent faster growth of the US, Gabriel Zucman says that the US’s national income per adult has not grown faster than Europe since 2010, even if its GDP per capita has :


The GDP is the total (market )value of all goods&services produced in a country, while the national income(GNI) is the total (market )value of all goods&services produced by a country.
The GDP of India will then include goods&services produced by, e.g., Coca-Cola in India, but won’t do so in the GNI(, apart from wages/taxes/…).
Conversely, the GDP of India won’t include what indian companies produce when operating in foreign countries, but the profits repatriated to India will be added to the GNI.
The United States apparently has a large negative net international investment position(, roughly –$27 trillion), while Europe still records a positive balance

From Our world in data again :

(ouch)

I’m perhaps wrong but if they sell the oil at an unfair price, while paying for the whole infrastructure themselves, then they could keep 100% of what the u.s. leaves them, and use it for the good of the venezuelans.


https://open.substack.com/pub/gzucman/p/understanding-us-intervention-in
« In 1958, the 40–50 thousand workers employed by the oil and iron industries, comprising less than 3% of the country’s total workforce, earned more than half of the country’s wages. In addition, their housing, education and health services were provided by their employers.
In contrast, the common city wage earner employed in industry and commerce on the other hand, spent 48% of his income on food. Less than one-third of dwellings were reported to have running water in the 1957 national census. Thus, even if Venezuela reportedly had the continent’s highest per capita income at the time—US$743 in 1962—this wealth was concentrated in the hands of those who benefited from the oil industry. » (source)

It depends on how much the u.s. intends to rob them but, foolishly perhaps, i’d like to naively hope that D.Trump would then leave them in peace despite their direct democracy and egalitarian values(, until the next u.s. president).

A weird idea would be a national referendum along the lines of “Would you rather [u.s. economic demands post-negotiations], or fight an invasion ?”, both to show that they’re not a dictatorship, and in order to leave the fate of the revolution to their hands.

Through negotiations, these kind of demands could be granted as long as it doesn’t exceed +10% of non-us products, reducing it to a selection of sectors. If it’s understood that it’d ease the negotiations on oil, and be included in the eventual national referendum, just my ignorant opinion.

They won’t stop until Palestine is destroyed, falsely conflating its destruction with their survival.

They only have to release the hostages and it’s over tomorrow

If Israel wants security/‘a palestinian demilitarization’, then they just have to accept a two-states solution based on the 1967 borders[1], but ‘more lands’/‘overruling the will of the local population’ is clearly more important to them.
([1] : And for the other antizionist states, since we(sterners) won’t give them anything in exchange for Israel, then destroying Palestine wouldn’t help in being accepted anyway, and they can rely on their nuclear weapons and cultural relations. In the end, a two-states solution could evolve into a single reunificated state, in a form agreed upon by both sides. ‘Islam isn’t’/‘Religions shouldn’t be’ a dogma but an ever-evolving “philosophy”(, i have the Quaker persecution in mind here, but in islam too,) that can (also )be rationally defended in parts, and could benefit from internal critics, as well as from an exposure to the outdated jewish culture in my ignorant opinion. Israelis could also move their state to North America and please every middle-easterners, but (they&)we(sterners) would refuse.)

J’ai vu ton édition, et c’est idiot de prétendre que quelqu’un qui passe sa vie à lutter contre le fascisme est un fasciste(, l’accusation de racisme est nouvelle à ma connaissance). Tu m’expliques comment c’est compatible avec la démocratie directe ?
Ou pas, fais comme tu veux, triste France comme même.
Comme quoi, toi aussi tu crois bêtement ce que les médias te racontent, et je suppose bien que moi aussi je dois faire gaffe, comme tout le monde.

Ok, et laisse tomber la chaîne que je t’ai conseillé en fait elle est bof, il est israélien pas extérieur comme je le pensais, et si un palestinien avait fait ces vidéos il aurait probablement eu le biais inverse(, edit : en fait ça semble impartial, juste que c’est facile de sélectionner les micro-trottoirs et il dit que tous sont gardés, parfois on voit bien que les gens comprennent mal la question et le contexte de la situation qu’il décrit, elle est posée trop brute et sans avoir/prendre le temps de creuser aussi, 'fin bref). Mais ça semble confirmer que les israélien·ne·s pensent que ce sont les palestinien·ne·s qui refusent la paix, pff.
Dsl pour le follow-up si ça t’a ennuyé, 'nuit.

Edit : oui, ils/elles semblent vraiment croire en majorité que les palestinien·ne·s refusent une solution à deux États, malgré la position claire de l’Autorité Palestinienne maintenue depuis Oslo. Je suis surpris, est-ce qu’une majorité ignore réellement le point de vue de l’Autorité Palestinienne à ce sujet ? C’est ce que les vidéos montrent, c’est dingue si c’est la situation réelle sur le terrain, juste une manipulation de masse(, ça expliquerait comment plus de 80% des israélien·ne·s peuvent se permettre de penser que leur victimation est plus grave que les autres partis de ce conflit malgré la colonisation continue, les faits historiques, et les statistiques ; c’est juste qu’ils ne savent pas que c’est Israël l’unique responsable de l’échec d’Oslo, des autres accords, et du refus actuel).

Juste par curiosité(, vu que tu connais probablement les liens du canard réfractaire avec lui), en un mot : sur une échelle de -10 à +10, tu mettrais quelle note à Étienne Chouard(, et aux idées qu’il défend) 🙃 ?

Je viens de voir ça par coïncidence et j’ai pensé à toi, je m’étais dit que toi aussi tu le trouverais peut-être intéressant 🤷, je regarde les autres videos de sa chaîne actuellement
Juste des gens normaux semblant surtout se préoccuper de leur vie personnelle.

Certains répétent que les palestiniens veulent juste tuer des juifs et je me demande depuis quelques semaines quel pourcentage de la population est au courant que l’Autorité Palestinienne insiste pour une solution à deux États depuis longtemps(, presque personne ici ne semblait être au courant alors que c’est un sub dédié, et que ce genre de connaissance est la base, comment peut-on ignorer ça ? Enfin, en vérité je me doute bien que les israéliens sont au courant et que ces gens sur reddit sont juste bizarrement sous-informés malgré leur présence assidue sur ce sous)
Je ne sais pas comment les israéliens justifieraient la colonisation des terres palestiniennes s’il leur avait posé cette question(, edit : ici)(, pas le prétexte de la sécurité, vu que détruire la Palestine n’augmentera pas leur sécurité, que des mesures de sécurité pourraient les protéger, etc.), mais leur réaction de déni surpris aurait peut-être été la même qu’ici.

Tu sais, je trouve que l’on était pas mieux durant les attentats de l’État islamique et que tout le monde prétendait qu’ils étaient juste fous sans se demander pourquoi on se faisait attaquer(, c’était quelques semaines/mois après ça, comment on a pu se démerder pour l’ignorer à plus de 95% ?), c’était une situation différente mais un peu semblable.
D’ailleurs, eux aussi ont été traité de façon affreuse après leur capture, avec plein de victimes civiles présentées comme boucliers humains, et plein d’atrocity propaganda, et les choses habituelles.
Cette fois-là, on applaudissait, et la prochaine fois on recommencera, de même que l’on continuera de soutenir Israël au prochain attentat plutôt que de faire pression pour la création d’un État palestinien.

Ah oui, eh bien là je te rejoins, on vit tous dans une bulle et ils ne font pas exception, après ils n’ont pas (encore? )banni B’tselem ou Haaretz(, tout pourrait toujours être pire ce n’est pas une excuse).
Je n’ai rien à ajouter au final…

(Je vois pas pourquoi toi ou Farhad(@freefree.ps) tenez à mentionner l’utilisateur(, ça ne m’a pas empêché de recevoir la notification 45mn plus tard avec l’app Eternity) ? Enfin bref/‘peu importe’)

Je sais mais non, comme nous ils sont pris dans un narratif, tu crois que les gens sont juste méchants ? Tout le monde se croit être dans le bon camp, rien de nouveau.
C’est pour ça qu’il faut leur parler, enfin bref, je vais pas te prendre la tête là-dessus.

J’avais posté ça récemment si ça t’intéresse, d’autres études montrent que les juifs israéliens se considèrent à 80% les victimes dans le conflit(, dernière page de https://www.pcpsr.org/sites/default/files/Summary Report_ English_Joint Poll 12 Sept 2024.pdf ).

Je serais en faveur qu’Israël soit implanté en France à la place, mais là d’un coup tu verrais les français cesser de supporter les israéliens, donc les discours d’antisémitisme sont juste une autre manipulation, enfin pas la peine de t’en convaincre.
D’ailleurs, on pourrait prétendre refuser une implantation en France par respect des préférences israéliennes, mais on refuse aussi de donner un territoire aux musulmans en échange de leur perte de la moitié des Terres Saintes, en fait on s’en fiche d’avoir un échange équilibré/acceptable, c’est juste la loi du plus fort.

(J’ai lu avant-hier cette citation de Julio Escalona sur la futilité des négociations dans certains cas, j’y ai repensé plusieurs fois depuis car elle est bien exprimée. Sans vouloir tout confondre, elle semble appropriée pour le cas palestinien)

(Le livre est bof, je te le conseille pas mais je le cite comme même)

Et tous ces mensonges&manipulations, genre sur le Venezuela actuellement, mais systématiquement à tous les sujets, franchement j’en ai marre, on ne sait pas “gagner” en ‘étant franc’/‘disant la vérité’, notre parole a moins de valeur que celle des criminels.

Bah, je vis pas en Israël, mais perso je pense que leurs médias sont comme en France : certains(, de gauche objectivement,) vont s’offusquer des conditions de détention, et d’autres vont les sous-estimer ou ignorer, en n’y pensant presque pas.
De même qu’aux États-Unis beaucoup auront déjà oublié Guantánamo sans savoir qu’il y avait plein d’autres cas, et sans en avoir rien à faire.
Vraiment, je crois que l’on sous-estime l’impact des médias dans notre jugement des israéliens, j’ai même l’impression que beaucoup doutent de la sincérité de l’Autorité Palestinienne et que ça les arrange de prétendre que la solution à deux états est un leurre.
Qq chose comme ça, mon analyse est bâclée là, mais j’avais rapidement fait une recherche des médias les plus regardés en Israël et beaucoup sont proches de Netanyahou, tu te doutes qu’ils ne vont pas parler du point de vue palestinien, imagine BFM ou CNews parlant des gilets jaunes mais en pire car ici ce sont des “terroristes” qui ne s’arrêteront pas avant d’avoir tué tou.te.s les jui.f.ve.s, et qui connaît le point de vue des terroristes, c’est même illégal de le présenter(, = d’en faire l’apologie). Oui, clairement j’accuse les médias israéliens.

(Je dois y aller là, et si jamais tu m’écris entre-temps, je vais pas pouvoir te répondre avant ~16h)

Israelis and the rest of the world don’t know about the living conditions in israeli jails, just like the germans and the rest of the world didn’t know about the living conditions in the concentration camps, or in Guantánamo/‘Abu Ghraib’(, Bagram air base, camp Nama, camp Bucca, …)
One would think that caring about the way israeli hostages are treated would make them treat palestinians humanely.

Some testimonies, and it started way before 2023, e.g. here in 1991, in 2021(, dozens of locations, like Ofer in 2015, or Hebron from 2007 to 2014, and more), with thousands of testimonies(, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, …), we just don’t interview them(, e.g. recently, only known thanks to social medias that didn’t existed a few decades ago).
It’s not a question of proving anything, we(sterners) do not care.

It could all be over if Israel refused to deprive other abrahamic religions from these lands where the three religions started, and instead it wants all of them for itself, as well as the destruction of al-Aqsa and everything else, endangering itself by its greed instead of seeking acceptation.
Forcing others into submission is ugly, and Iran&others could accept Israel if offered a win-win situation instead of a unilateral loss. We(sterners) should only offer situations that we would ourselves accept if we were them.
(Christians were supposed to be more ethical/humble/virtuous/… than muslims, but that was centuries ago anyway, now i should argue that the moderns claim to be more ethical than in the past and should act like it, and we’ll pretend that we already are)

Drunk on their impunity

i’d love to see israelis kiss the palestinian flag

Ok, i couldn’t find an article confirming that claim, and their twitter account doesn’t mention it, but ok.

So you do believe that they paid $900.000 for only 128 posts, i thought it was so obviously bullshit that you’d agree with me, and did you see my edit ?
Sorry for contradicting you, and thanks for producing so much content for Lemmy 👍

I’m only paid twice the minimum salary, but even if i passed the initial military selection i’m too afraid of the consequences if i’m denouncing Israel ☹️
Do you really believe that they’re paid $7.000 per post(, with the “7”) ? That’s at least $70.000 per day, you could gain multiple millions in a year.
$900.000 would only be 128 posts spanned across the millions of posts of TikTok and Instagram over 6 months(, from June to November).

They’re also buying likes, e.g. on reddit, in order to put the posts they want in a good initial position as soon as they’re posted, but no doubt that it’s more complex. In any case they’re undoubtedly using social medias like every other tool available to them in order to achieve their goals, i have no doubts about that.

Impossible, bots aim for quantity not quality, imagine the cost of paying $7.000 per post, it’s probably around $0.10 for the highest quality, and below $0.01 for the lowest(, depending on the social platforms), and i’d say that it’s too obvious to point out if people weren’t repeating this these last days(, but w/e)

Top post of the day(, currently n°21 of all-time), not one comment to rectify that he didn’t : https://x.com/gbsumudflotilla (, nor https://x.com/GSMFlotilla)
I couldn’t find a single news article supporting your claim.
Now you can downvote this comment(, edit : i was manifestedly condescending, sry, and thanks for the upvotes)

B.t.w., it’s secondary, but i looked at his account after seeing your post, and saw that he posted this today against the zionist anti-defamation league(, i know that he’s pro-Israel), that he frequently criticizes, partly because they’re cancelling their opponents and that’s supposedly something republicans don’t do because “freedom” : https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1973531703261143523

Are you sure ? https://x.com/DropSiteNews/status/1972844833094983790

It’d contradict the point 16 and the overall spirit of the plan that leave the ruined Gaza to palestinians(, under a supervision whose powers haven’t been described, it could range from symbolic to annexation, 13.500 palestinians would stay in israeli jails with testimonies of mistreatments/torture, and palestinians would lose their right to fight the illegal(, e.g.,) occupation)

(i’m not saying that they should refuse, only that Israel’s an asshole)