Do you know how often bourgeois democracies elect “socialists”? Hell, many of them even elect “communists” on the regular. It’s normal. Get over it. Please.
EDIT - there are basically two main genres of Mamdani poster, both of which keep scrawling MAMDANI on the wall in their own excrement for different reasons, and they all seem to be assuming I am from the other side lol
Many people on this website hate the Democrats until it’s time to believe in a new succdem entryist claiming to be a socialist. Then (for some) the hopium overrides material analysis and historical knowledge. Then the succdem turns out to be an imperialist, as they have for more than a hundred years all over the first world.
Liking Zohran and hating AOC is not the result of coherent analysis. They’re two people at two different points on the same trajectory.
Liking Zohran and hating AOC is not the result of coherent analysis
I will say there is the odd possibility of them just hoping a social imperialist executive vs legislator can get some of the treats running again to stave off fervor, thus improving their lives for a blip of time even if it otherwise doesn’t progress things.
i.e there might be analysis but the analysis is opportunistic in nature. It’s why I’ve joked about it being American first “socialism”
Constantly yelling about how much you hate AOC and Zohran is not productive and I think most people find it weird. I honestly think communists think more about Zohran and AOC than people who live in NYC
I don’t think anyone in this forum actually likes them or think they’re going to actually change anything. But the non stop posts about “ERM I WANT IT ON THE RECORD I CALLED IT THAT ZOHRAN IS GONNA BETRAY EVERYONE!!!” is annoying
Its annoying discourse We’ve already all agreed that Zohran is a demsoc, DSA guy HE RAN ON THAT Nobody ever thought he was anything else
I’m not talking about “most people”, just the leftists on here. If people here find it weird that some people really hate succdem imperialists, then IMO that’s strange of them. You’re right that this post was pointless, but it shouldn’t have been controversial. I’d rather not rehash all the old stuff too, we can wait until the next time he says something massively chauvinistic to criticize him and just ignore him in the meantime.
Sadly people on here have and do defend Zohran (this same post about AOC or Bernie would generate zero controversy). Usually “well he’s only the mayor so what if he’s bad on non-local issues” style arguments.
He’s also not a demsoc. He’s just another social democrat, and not even a very radical one. People hate on AOC here every time she’s brought up and anyone who tried to defend her would rightfully be dismissed. Give it some time and that will likely be the case with Zohran as well.
soc dems and dem socs are the same thing, they both accomplish the same thing of keeping capitalism in place
I don’t think anyone disagrees with the post I think people are annoyed its posted once a week.
people are saying people disagree with it, but I have never seen that for the two months I’ve been here. But I could have missed it
soc dems and dem socs are the same thing, they both accomplish the same thing of keeping capitalism in place
True only in the first world, and only really after the early 20th century.
I don’t think anyone disagrees with the post I think people are annoyed its posted once a week.
People definitely disagree, otherwise it would fall off the front page with 5 comments every time it gets posted. People who aren’t interested in hearing about it would mostly just ignore it if the criticism of Mamdani didn’t bother them. I’m also tired of hearing about it, as you say.
But I could have missed it
I think so. Its easy to miss threads on here. The defense of Mamdani was A LOT more obvious a few months ago, people mostly argue and defend him indirectly now because he’s shown his ass so many times. However, you can tell who still likes him because they’re the same people who openly defended him when he first got controversial on here.
As I have said before, for users in New York, you can have your chauvinist mayor and he can improve your life a bit. That’s OK. But you should at the very least acknowledge that he’s a chauvinist and accept that people hate him because of that. And those people, especially if they aren’t Americans, have a right to do so.
Just for context (I know yer comment was from hours ago), but yeah you missed a lot of this stuff having just joined in October. The primaries were in June, and there are MANY people who felt extremely passionate about the guy. Like essentially expressing that he was going to change the face of American politics. The naysayers (such as myself) first started off like “I doubt that anything will come of this, it is American electoralism after all, but if it does that will be so great! Let’s see where it goes” and then we were called wreckers and ultras and shit for not being in absolute frenzied support lol. We have been straight up called ignorant and other much less nice names when actually trying to engage in good faith discourse.
So us naysayers have gotten more aggressive over it, especially since he has walked so much back without even being in office… And I think that within the past couple of months the dogmatists have just gotten quiet because every statement or he has made has been terrible. Some people do still claim that he is doing 5D chess to take the bourgeois by surprise and kick start the revolution or whatever, though. And I think our point, rather than this ACTUALLY being aboit Mamdani, is that people who are claiming to be Marxists are throwing materialist analysis into the trashcan in order to uncritically support him. Thats worth debating IMO.
So now that you’re caught up on the history of this struggle session, welcome to hexbear, wait til you see 4 year old struggle sessions get relitigated over and over and again. It’s like a tradition at this point
wait til you see 4 year old struggle sessions get relitigated over and over and again
OUTDOOR CATS
Indoor cats unless you have a Catio. Best of both worlds!
Liking Zohran and hating AOC is not the result of coherent analysis. They’re two people at two different points on the same trajectory.
mayor and congresswoman are different offices. Zohran can’t be president. they’re only on the same trajectory if you ignore all of civics
i fucking beg everyone on this goddamn website to demonstrate a basic understanding of federalism, separation of powers, and the natural born citizen clause when making critiques of a mayor-elect who isn’t eligible for the presidency. He’s more like Obama than AOC anyway, at least that’s keeping it executive branch, but there are still huge differences between a president and a mayor.
The fact that he can’t be president is immaterial, he can still be (and is being) absorbed into the Democratic blob like every one of his ideological antecedents.
it’s very material. the incentives for him are completely different because of it.
No, they aren’t
People in the third world, whose socialist party actually has multiple seats in parliament and nobody thinks anything of it:
This is the most “I’m angry at the news so I’m going to yell at all of you” post I’ve been present for
Very correct lol.
you guys
I sure as fuck didn’t elect anyone.
It’s not normal for the US and I still think that’s an interesting development.
I think it’s good that red scare propaganda is working less and people are less scared of the word socialist
I think it’s proof something could happen and proof the working class, especially the youth doesn’t have such entrenched red scare propaganda as some people think
Idk whenever I see a dsa demsoc elected I think
“Idk maybe Americans aren’t scared of socialism”
It’s what happens when people lose hope, to meaningfully be able to impact the world around them and it’s affairs, so they resort to lambasting their representatives on the internet.
A lot of people think that if talking bad about a leader, in public was made illegal, that it’d be horrible censorship, Liberals cling onto being able to yap like they cling onto nothing else. Oh no my free speech!!
If I was a tyrant I would literally let you guys shit talk me all day and turn it into a theater, because I know you’re not going to do anything about it. If I was extra nefarious I’d make you pay for it. Come on $25 to throw a tomato at me, you know it’d sell out marvelously and the media would call me the most humble president of all.
I don’t even live in NYC so idk why I’m constantly being asked to debate the merits of their new mayor.
it’s the same as when you grow up in a non-US western country and your media becomes saturated with coverage of the US presidential primaries. sometimes I wonder what proportion of citizens of those countries think they can vote for the US president.
Living in another country is like living in the Roman Empire, while not being a Roman citizen. You get fucked by American politics, but don’t have even a symbolic vote. Also a fun fact: Romans had a proto-electoral college with voting being split by tribus and curiae.
When have socialists ever passed over an opportunity to bicker with each other?
In the Senate? 69. In the House? 420. Until then, strap in.
because this time is going to be different! this time they won’t turn out to be the same as the others! …please…
okay but he was sexy this time trust me it’ll work
the struggle sessions will continue until every hexbear user has been elected to office
they could elect joseph stalin as the mayor rn and he would be just as useless
Zohran hasn’t even been sworn in yet right.
Doesn’t he get sworn in next year.
Isn’t Eric Adams still mayor
The assertion above is he will be useless once he is in, and Stalin/Lenin/Mao would be just as useless come January if you dropped them in his position and told them their goal was a socialist mayorality.
Its wild to me that people expect one congress person or one mayor or whatever to lead the fucking workers vanguard.
They want big man theory but with AOC and when that doesn’t happen they get mad that AOC didn’t fulfil their fantasy of participating in the workers vanguard
They want big man theory but with AOC and when that doesn’t happen they get mad that AOC didn’t fulfil their fantasy of participating in the workers vanguard
This is a strawman. Most people complaining are just tired of seeing praise heaped on imperialist social democrats because they’re American and they claim to be socialists.
Yeah but the person above is arguing directly against that, saying no great man could save this.
Some do have that reasoning, and they are people being disillusioned from their liberalism. Others are tired of what they see as the praising of blatant opportunism.
I.e some want a great person to rise up and create the party and are upset when betrayed, and others are tired of seeing, “the Mensheviks are the way!”
But this topic doesn’t just concern the “Great Man” when these debates pop up, as this often is the result of genuine organizating efforts. If a Mamdani administration doesn’t do much to advance a socialist cause, harms it, etc. that is thousands who spent months of effort backing an opportunist cause instead of something that may actually advance struggle, and desiring to prevent that in anyway is obvious. Not every critic is productive of course, but it is something worth struggling over as it is a fundamental question of tactics.
Are you really trying to reignite the Mamdani struggle session again or are we talking about someone else?
you already know the answer lol
We MUST REMAIN PURE!!!
YOU CANNOT EVEN SLIGHTLY LIKE THE DEM SOC!!!
HOW DARE YOU THINK HE MIGHT BE A GOOD MAYOR!!!
YOU MUST HATE ANYONE WHO ISNT LENIN OR MAO
YOU MUST HATE ANYONE WHO ISNT LENIN OR MAO
You should dislike any American who’s a chauvinist and an imperialist.
I think people are allowed to be happy that they may be getting free busses and cheaper groceries.
expecting anything else from a mayor is fucking stupid
If he does the grocery and free bus thing he will make the lives of working class people better
Nobody is expecting him to do communism
You have to have reasonable expectations
I’m not from New York, and I’ll dislike him for manufacturing consent for the slaughter of the third world even if he does good things for New Yorkers.
I read this as “free busses and cheaper genocides” at first…
That is something that you can expect from social democrats, to be fair.
And if electing democrats can bring positive domestic change, how does that help socialism other than the national variety?
IT IS INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT THAT I BE ON RECORD AS CORRECT
We’ll see if he will be a good mayor. However, given what I have seen from him so far, and my experiences in the past, he will cave under even moderate pressure if it means that he can achieve a higher office or get into a lucrative speaking circuit gig. If they stone-wall him completely, even for his personal career, we may actually see some real attempts at completing his campaign promises, if only to attempt some form of self-preservation.
If he actually flips the script and uses his real-politik to accomplish his campaign promises, I will change my tune accordingly and happily admit I was wrong. But for now, it looks at though he has done his best to hack away at his roots so he can float along with the current, with nothing to show for it.
I agree
but way to much energy is put into caring about a mayor
As has been mentioned previously, when there is nowhere for the energy to go, it goes to things like this.
Idk, how many ‘socialists’ immediately use their new-found position to undermine the international position of the organization that raises them up? The reason third world communist elected people are pretty non-controversial is because they don’t tend to do that.
