I built PCs for a living in the early 90s.
Today, there are a lot of younger people than me in the office, and I’m happy to let them believe they have to do all the IT stuff because they’re the most tech savvy.
They’re not. It’s just convenient to have someone do the shit I don’t want to do.
As a millenial I don’t think this is true anymore, the Gen Z needs a lot of help with computers too. It’s up to Millennials to be the IT
Since lemmy is all IT people or people who see helping others with computers as more of a break than annoying extra work, I translated the context.
“I am not a social media manager but I am the youngest volunteer at this non-profit so I am basically the social media manager.”
Younger people are no longer the most computer literate on average. Its between Millennials and Gen X that are the most computer literate generation. Boomers are too old computers weren’t big when they were young. Zoomers are too young, computers became highly simplified during their childhood with the start of web 2.0 into the era of tablet & phone domination.
Alphas are going to be on the other hand completely illiterate, because education is increasingly a joke in the US. Also AI will do everything for them.
AI will do everything for them.
It’s a bubble that will pop any day now.
Which is it?
It will do everything for them, just very badly.
Both. In the same way that the .com bubble crashed on but the internet continued, AI bubble is going to crash but LLM and other ML algorithms are going to continue on.
I think this picture is like 12 of 13 years old.
I’m at the end of GenX. I’m the tech support for the young and the old. FML.
Yeah same. The young know nothing but apps.
You’ll always feel needed, though.
Taken advantage of*. More work, same pay. Everyone still removed.
Sadly this seems to no longer be true unless the youngest person in your office is like 30 because kids don’t learn this shit anymore.
Just push control+L and the PDF will be full screen
You mean meta-up, right?
I was going to say, I would count on anyone under 40yo to be able to do anything IT but they are the rulers of social media and gaming so long as it is all plugged in and ready to play. I don’t know what will happen when the last of Gen X retire.
I’d say under 30 is more accurate. Millennials are generally tech savvy.
How old is this screenshot?
Young people don’t even know what a directory is.
You can be the youngest person in an office and a Millennial.
Source: Me. I am surrounded by boomers.
You can be pretty old and still the youngest person in the office.
They’re on X, and I refuse to install it to guess at this person’s age. From the look of it they’re in their 20’s/30’s, so I think they’re one of the exceptions to the rule that most young people don’t know shit about computers.
Hell, even my kids don’t understand that mobile phones, slates, car stereos, gaming consoles, and even musical greeting cards can be computers. To them a computer is a desktop PC. They’re getting there, though.
Students are currently arriving at the university without any basic understanding of file hierarchies (folders containing folders and files). And they have no clue what a zip file is. Nor do they know what to do with it.
I used to be able to just say “please download the materials from [learning platform] and organize them so you can work with them before class” and that would be fine. Nowadays I have to give step-by-step instructions that involve things like “create a folder”, “navigate to your download folder” and “cut (ctrl-x) the files and paste (ctrl-v) them into the new folder” unless I want half the students to get lost.
Some don’t even have a concept of downloading a file. They’re so used to streaming and mobile UIs that they seem to think that a downloaded file is simply gone once you close it (and needs to be re-downloaded).
dude we have to do the same shit with people, and it’s not always young people. Some people just don’t fucking understand stuff
literally step by step instructions with screenshots and they sometimes still don’t get it, and usually it’s not because the instructions were unclear, they simply did not follow what it clearly said because they fundamentally lack understanding or something I don’t fucking know
I used to think it was an unreasonable challenge just to get people to paste values and not formats in Excel. it seems like that’s going to be even more difficult going forward. I fucking hate it when I’m looking at a table with a half column of cells with a border on the bottom because my dumbass coworker doesn’t give a shit about quality and just dragged the first row cell down. like it takes no extra effort to do it cleanly, that shit pisses me off. and it’s not for lack of knowledge, they’ve been taught this and shown it explicitly and told that it’s the expectation to have cleanly formatted files. I couldn’t imagine handing in work that just had a giant shit stain on the front and thinking that’s okay.
I wonder if it is the IT magic. Recently I needed a group to fill a table with values from a test that produced a radar chart. Click on the point, get a numeric value, not too hard. The only complication was that it was a “totally legally disctinct”-test so translated differently and truncated from the proper test. So I worked out translations and a table in order.
My instructions was that you start at 9 o’clock and fill in the table clockwise.
Cue constant question regarding translations and where whatever value should go, while I had done the work and all they needed to do was follow a simple instruction to fill it out as directed. I did that work for them, I don’t even remember the translations, that’s why you should follow the simple instruction.
Group of all ages, just somehow unable or unwilling not to try and express themselves in that was supposed to be 30 seconds of data entry.
that’s what pisses me off about going the extra mile and making such clear instructions
like why the fuck am I doing it if you’re not going to read it
a separate issue to this is the feedback I’ve been getting from management lately
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“so and so needs more clear instructions, you need to accommodate that as a supervisor”
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“your messages are too long, they need to be more concise” — meanwhile it’s literally a flow chart in bullet point form of “if this do that, else go to next bullet”
like what the fuck do you guys want from me, I’m doing extra here to make it simple, if people are fucking stupid that’s not my problem
a guy who just quit routinely turned in work that had some shit wrong with it. just today I found something that was wrong in yet another way every time I looked a bit deeper at. the short version is: “this thing needs to be able to move in the positive x direction. here is a message that this guy sent me showing that he intends for it to move in the positive x direction. here is what this guy designed, that moves in the negative x direction.” okay I’ll go fix that, wait the way this is set up clearly shows that this was not a simple mistake and that he simply fundamentally misunderstood what this thing is supposed to do, even though he sent me a diagram of what it’s supposed to do.
/rant
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9 o’clock? I’ve left the office at that hour.
/j
God, that’s depressing
I mean, they’re close to illiterate, and can’t focus on reading anything longer than two paragraphs, according to what I’ve read on /r/teachers. Phones don’t have apparent file management, so they don’t know about it.
Idiocracy indeed.
Phones are aggressively hostile to any file management. Many apps just straight up don’t give control of actual directories to end users. Manually modifying the directories of software at all is effectively hidden under an exploit and outside legacy ported software it is hard to meaningfully change anything even that way.
So I would not blame youngsters that don’t have personal computers. Mobile OS obscure the use and neuter the potential of learning the file system, there are massive hurdles for fringe benefits, completely different from especially PC use in our time where this was fundamental knowledge and enabled doing all kinds of interesting and useful stuff.
Time to bring back the manuals from the 80s when students were seeing computers for the first time in university.
Reading? In this day and age?
It has to be YouTube videos.
Time for the “How to… For dummies” series to make a comeback.
For Dummies? That’s ableist. Then again I don’t think the presses will cool before whatever new word they choose is done going trough the euphemism treadmill.
Pardon, the new edition shall be called “Instructions for dumdums”
Well, why not? I mean they seem to not magically learn it today either.
80s… pshaw. Try the 60s. Or just go back all the way to Babbage. If you don’t know who that is, then look it up.
The guy who started the video game store?
I looked up Baggage, I don’t think it would make a difference.
Nice troll. ;)
It took me years to get over the fact that I can’t simply copy and paste stuff from folder to folder anymore. Most phones these days won’t even let you do it, and some computers won’t either.
Everything wants you to sync everything instead, and gives you these awful file managers like the photo apps that make you five different stupid albums that you didn’t ask for and can’t turn off, but makes you have to search around to find the basic albums that just hold your photos…
Apple and Google are the worst, but even Microsoft tries to be more like them. I just don’t use a computer anymore, haven’t in years. When I do again, I’m definitely switching to Linux…
Google Photos be like bet you certainly don’t want pictures you’ve recently taken or downloaded on the front page. Like what the hell if you don’t give me folders at least offer me the most likely things I’d want to do things with up front.
"Here’s this embarrassing photo you forgot you took of yourself a year ago instead, and we went ahead and made a slideshow of random photos you took throughout the year with the data that we appropriated from your device. Oh, and here’s a map with pinpoints of all the locations where you’ve taken a photo.
Oh, what’s that, you thought you turned off location permissions? Well, not since your last update you didn’t!"
Hey, it’s the anniversary of that time your dad went into the hospital and never came out. Here’s a picture of him on the beach!
Scary
Or any concept of the physical realities of what a computer actually is.
It was true 20 years ago, but is it still true nowadays when it’s the 30-40 year olds who mostly grew up with the kind of computer used in business settings whilst the 20 olds usually grew up with smartphones instead?
Eh, it’s a financial background thing nowadays.
I am a Zoomer by age and I was introduced to concept of the home internet during highschool due to living in “not the US” at the time.
Tho I do have absurd amount of trouble with navigating social media UIs so I am slightly tech-illiterate in that context.
Can confirm: Most young hires in enterprise are only familiar with iOS and Android, and now maybe prompt “engineering”.
Desktop operation is as challenging for them as anyone.
Totally agree. And I think it’s also compounded by Windows becoming a more hostile OS to power users. There are some shortcuts in Office based on the Menu (! Not the Ribbon !) that still work and I know it’s just a matter of time before those go away too. Really feels like the Dark Ages for PC computing (other than the side effect of the rise of Linux).
Why did they take Ctrl+Shift+S away???
What was that one again? Paste special? Yeah I can’t believe I’ve gotten used to Alt,h,v,s
Save As
Yeah. Adobe Acrobat Pro has become useless as it hid or disabled a lot of their good features.
not in my workplace
we have to teach people how to navigate directories. mind-blowing
fuck, yesterday I had to explain a local drive map and the user-specific OneDrive folder location to our IT guy (who is 20-25). although I am pretty sure he is a jr tech
God, reminds me of the late 90’s and early 00’s
PM: I don’t know what you’re complaining about with disk space on the public drive, you had duplicate files everywhere.
Me: No, we don’t, There are no duplicates, I run scripts to find that.
PM: BS, All the project stuff on the G drive is duplicated on P drive, don’t worry I deleted it off the G drive for you.
Me: … you what?
PM: I deleted it for you
me: O.O would you go look on the P drive? It’ll be empty now.
PM: nah, I just deleted it from G.
me: go look, those where just drive maps on P pointing back to the
PM: looking scared nuh uh… checks Why, why would be do that?
me: Lead PM asked for a mapping to P: because they disliked typing in G:\Projects. We don’t issue you individual drives because raids are really expensive. Let the PM’s know the files will be back in a couple of hours, I need to go beat up Backup Exec for a while.
oh god
we still regularly get comments “I don’t have access to the [whatever local drive letter OneDrive is using for the user] drive”
like motherfucker IT’S ALL THE SAME FUCKING DRIVE, JUST LOOK AT THE PATH AND FOLLOW THAT ON YOUR LOCAL ONE
I have no idea why Microsoft removed the ability to map OneDrive to a drive letter. we have a third party tool but it sucks.
I’ve even made a two page document (big font and pretty pictures) to explain the difference, and people don’t look at it when they’re onboarded. or their supervisor didn’t add it to the onboarding package.
That’s why I refused to give my kids consoles and limit access to their phones when reasonable. They’re both PC users. I gave them AutoIT and showed them how to make grinders and autoclickers for Roblox.
I’m Gen X and one of the oldest people where I work. Just one person besides me has any true understanding of computers/IT, one year younger than me.
Everyone else is completely lost if the connection between your personal terminal and the office printer fails. Or the cleaning lady has once again managed to release the mystic cables out of their holy sockets.
Sometimes I fix stuff in the terminal just to tease the younger colleagues, then I show them how it can be done with the GUI. They find it baffling that a “not-programmer” can “hack stuff”.
It is both funny and frustrating.
Yeah or oldest, anyone reaching adolescence after the advent of the iPhone is reliably dumber with tech than boomers who used a computer for work
Yeah, in my experience in desktop support the older generations usually at least tried something to fix their problem. The younger generations were just like, “we’ve tried nothing and we’re all out of ideas.”
One time when I was early in my field (stationary engineering) I had a funny experience. It was a small boiler room so only one guy on shift at a time. I came in to relive the operator (60s guy retiring that year) and one of our computers was down. It was one we took hourly readings from for something not too important that we could get the same reading from elsewhere. So anyway, he tells me hes entered the password a dozen times and it just doesnt work. We had the password sticky noted to the monitor so I was skeptical. I noticed caps lock was on, turned it off, entered the password and signed right on. His response was “wow thats great. At least someone around here is good with computers”
My IT experience as Gen-X.
Boomers: Look to me because somehow they have avoided learning anything IT related in the last thirty+ years.
Millennials: Look to me because I have more experience and a wider breadth of knowledge. Thumbs up for Millenials.
Gen-Z: About as confused as Boomers but excusable since they just started. Surprising lack of basics in some. Those that do know enough, have less knowledge and experience than Millenials and way way less than us gray beards. So they rarely get to solve problems, thus they rarely get to grow and learn.
Zoomers are the full on ADD version of people. All they grew up on was a tablet or phone that “just works” and they get their answers from a Google search or 1 minute video. Many of them simply don’t want to learn beyond the bare minimum they can get away with and just want the instant gratification or the answer. They don’t care about understanding why it’s the answer.
Wide exceptions to every generation, of course.
In my experience as a millennial not in IT it’s
Boomers: know nothing or are wildly skilled in either everything or just what’s necessary to do their job, very little middle ground
Gen X: most have basic competence, wide range of skills including none at all
Millennials: higher floor, only the genuine idiots don’t know how to use a computer, wide range of skills, but the people who only know the basics seem to know less than equivalent xers
Gen Z: never met one
The number of fresh out of school software engineers who still hunt-and-peck type is absolutely mind-boggling to me
I was in a similar situation, till about eight years ago. So, what happens as more and more of us Gen-Xs retire?
Is AI going to fill the gap? I sincerely doubt it.
My hope is that Millenials will have everything well at hand and Gen-Z will have more opportunities to grow as we leave the space.
Gen-X here. I showed my Gen-Z kid how to build a gaming PC, and then he showed his friend how to do it. So, now, they’re the “IT” guys for the group.
The kid has been sitting in front of a computer since he was four. It occurs to me just now that I didn’t really teach him anything about file management, drives, etc. He learned the same way I did, I suppose. By wanting to, and searching for answers. He was the first one to switch to Linux a couple of years ago. I don’t know his motivation for doing it, but it prompted me to make the switch soon after.
