• 10_0@lemmy.ml
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    1 year ago

    Place for memes: Exists
    Political memes: Is this !politicalmemes?

    • Sotuanduso@lemm.ee
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      1 year ago

      Exactly. We complainers aren’t saying they can’t post about politics, just requesting they post their political memes in the designated political meme space.

      EDIT: A message to people from Hexbear

      Thank you for your input, but I stopped responding to arguments here at least 24 hours ago because I can’t juggle that many conversations at once. I would ask that you respect that and not continue to argue with me about what is and isn’t political, because I’m just going to ignore it anyways. Thank you.

      • culpritus [any]@hexbear.net
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        1 year ago

        The concept of having ‘free speech zones’ where political speech is allowed is … very inherently political though.

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_speech_zone

        Civil liberties advocates argue that free speech zones are used as a form of censorship and public relations management to conceal the existence of popular opposition from the mass public and elected officials.[24] There is much controversy surrounding the creation of these areas – the mere existence of such zones is offensive to some people, who maintain that the First Amendment to the United States Constitution makes the entire country an unrestricted free speech zone.[24] The Department of Homeland Security “has even gone so far as to tell local police departments to regard critics of the War on Terrorism as potential terrorists themselves.”

        • Sotuanduso@lemm.ee
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          1 year ago

          In this context, it’s matters related to government, politicians, or the general culture of a country, in which there are two or more major camps of conflicting opinions, where a good deal of people in one or more of those camps view the other camp as evil because of their view.

          If the post is in a community where only one of the camps is significantly present, but the post is attacking the other camp, it is still political.

          Why do you ask? Are you hoping to expose some inconsistency in my definition? Maybe use it to call something I like political with the expectation that I’ll disagree with you? Or were you expecting my definition to be biased, calling something political that shouldn’t be, so that you could expose me as a moustache-twirling villain?

          • Adkml [he/him]@hexbear.net
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            1 year ago

            So we can’t post memes about … checks notes the general culture of our country?

            So no memes about anything with literally any specifics.

            You realize if you got your wish memses would just be “how many of yall like breathing”

            Maybe you could point us to an example of an acceptable meme with no politics involved.

            • Sotuanduso@lemm.ee
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              1 year ago

              Earlier in this thread, I said:

              We complainers aren’t saying they can’t post about politics, just requesting they post their political memes in the designated political meme space.

              I also clarified that it has to be contentious, in a way where people condemn each other for thinking differently.

              Here are some non-political memes posted in this community in the past hour:
              https://lemmy.ml/post/5184036
              https://lemmy.ml/post/5185652
              https://lemmy.ml/post/5185650
              https://lemmy.ml/post/5186256
              https://lemmy.ml/post/5186204

              That’s 5 of the 6 memes posted in that timespan.

                • Adkml [he/him]@hexbear.net
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                  1 year ago

                  Here let me give you the codex.

                  When this person says “political” they mean “things I dont agree with”

                • Sotuanduso@lemm.ee
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                  1 year ago

                  I don’t think “I don’t like my job” is politically divisive. You don’t really get people up in arms about it unless you’re complaining about capitalism or work in general. Even boomers have their “I’d rather be fishing” meme about it.

                  • ProxyTheAwesome [comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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                    1 year ago

                    I don’t think “I don’t like my job” is politically divisive.

                    This is absolutely a political statement. Your work and conditions are political and can be changed only through seizing control and unionization, both political actions.

                  • Alaskaball [comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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                    1 year ago

                    With the division of labour, in which all these contradictions are implicit, and which in its turn is based on the natural division of labour in the family and the separation of society into individual families opposed to one another, is given simultaneously the distribution, and indeed the unequal distribution, both quantitative and qualitative, of labour and its products, hence property: the nucleus, the first form, of which lies in the family, where wife and children are the slaves of the husband. This latent slavery in the family, though still very crude, is the first property, but even at this early stage it corresponds perfectly to the definition of modern economists who call it the power of disposing of the labour-power of others. Division of labour and private property are, moreover, identical expressions: in the one the same thing is affirmed with reference to activity as is affirmed in the other with reference to the product of the activity.

                    Further, the division of labour implies the contradiction between the interest of the separate individual or the individual family and the communal interest of all individuals who have intercourse with one another. And indeed, this communal interest does not exist merely in the imagination, as the “general interest,” but first of all in reality, as the mutual interdependence of the individuals among whom the labour is divided. And finally, the division of labour offers us the first example of how, as long as man remains in natural society, that is, as long as a cleavage exists between the particular and the common interest, as long, therefore, as activity is not voluntarily, but naturally, divided, man’s own deed becomes an alien power opposed to him, which enslaves him instead of being controlled by him. For as soon as the distribution of labour comes into being, each man has a particular, exclusive sphere of activity, which is forced upon him and from which he cannot escape. He is a hunter, a fisherman, a herdsman, or a critical critic, and must remain so if he does not want to lose his means of livelihood; while in communist society, where nobody has one exclusive sphere of activity but each can become accomplished in any branch he wishes, society regulates the general production and thus makes it possible for me to do one thing today and another tomorrow, to hunt in the morning, fish in the afternoon, rear cattle in the evening, criticise after dinner, just as I have a mind, without ever becoming hunter, fisherman, herdsman or critic. This fixation of social activity, this consolidation of what we ourselves produce into an objective power above us, growing out of our control, thwarting our expectations, bringing to naught our calculations, is one of the chief factors in historical development up till now.

                    • Marx. The German Ideology.

                    Tl:DR work under capitalism fucking sucks because it’s exploiting us and not fighting for your liberation is politically divisive

                  • Adkml [he/him]@hexbear.net
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                    1 year ago

                    “I don’t like my job” is so political people bled and died to the american government for your right to not have to do it 80 hours a week as a 12 year old.

              • ProxyTheAwesome [comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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                1 year ago

                First one is about technology and alienation under a capitalist mode of production, discussing work and leisure. That’s political.

                Third one is about dating and advertisements online, which is related to sexual politics and commodification of sex work online. Political.

          • Infamousblt [any]@hexbear.net
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            1 year ago

            You’re pretty upset that I asked a question aren’t you? I wonder why that is.

            Government and politicians I think are pretty self explanatory and I would agree those are inherently political, no argument there.

            What do you think is part of a general culture of a country, or not? How would you define culture that has conflicting opinions? Is it solely up to your discretion, or would you agree that if anyone has any disagreement about a meme that would make it automatically political?

            Is this one political because it references the FBI, a governmental organization? https://startrek.website/post/1847371 I would argue that it is political.

            Is this one political because it references culture related to advertising in capitalism? I would think everyone should agree that any reference to or commentary of an economic system is inherently political because of course economic systems are controversial. I don’t see how anyone could argue that references to a combination of two major brands isn’t a commentary on marketing: https://programming.dev/post/3200916

            I mean this one references politics so it’s clearly political right? https://lemm.ee/post/8502748

            I’m just curious about what you and others think is political versus not. You can’t have a discussion about if something should or should not be allowed if you can’t clearly define the boundaries of that thing. I find the discussion around what is and isn’t politics to be an interesting one, that’s all.

            • Waker@lemmy.ml
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              1 year ago

              I think can answer the memes questions for you.

              1. Non political
              2. Non political
              3. I guess it could be considered political in a way, but it doesn’t target a specific party or opinion so I’d let it through.
              • Alaskaball [comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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                1 year ago

                Lmao. The FBI: famously non-political government organization that murders activists as easily as one can breath air.

                And Microsoft: famously non-political company that bribes lobbies the u.s government constantly to gain monopoly over their market, works hand-in-hand with federal agencies to monitor system users, and regularly influences city, state, and national politics in the pursuit of subsidies of the American worker in order to further boost their already gross profit margins.

                • Waker@lemmy.ml
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                  1 year ago

                  I’m not disagreeing that some companies can have a political impact on the world.

                  Those memes in particular, aren’t focused on the political aspects. You have to be missing a brain in order to miss the point there.

                  • Adkml [he/him]@hexbear.net
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                    1 year ago

                    No you have to be missing a brain to think monopolies don’t have anything to do with politics.

                    Stealing a line from something I saw earlier. If you don’t like the memes just ignore them like you do the homeless people you walk by, non-politically.

                  • ShimmeringKoi [comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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                    1 year ago

                    When you get to the size of a monopoly like that, you operate on such a massive scale that your very existence as a company, and the actions required to grow and sustain it, is orders of magnitude more politcal than say, the small-scale relationship between a restaurant owner and their employees, which is also inherently politcal.

              • Infamousblt [any]@hexbear.net
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                1 year ago

                But I think they’re political. Is my opinion on what is and is not political invalid for some objective reason?

                • Waker@lemmy.ml
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                  1 year ago

                  You’re entitled to your opinion. It doesn’t make it less wrong though, the content of the memes is clearly not political.

            • Sotuanduso@lemm.ee
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              1 year ago

              Not upset, just suspicious because I’ve seen you asking that question a lot.

              Obviously what I consider political is up to my discretion, but I’m pretty sure the general definition does not include contentious memes, and mine doesn’t either because I gave a clause about one side considering the other side evil because of it.

              In general, if a person asks themselves “is what I’m posting political?” they can answer correctly 95% of the time, and the 5% of edge cases won’t upset 95% of the complainers.

              • Adkml [he/him]@hexbear.net
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                1 year ago

                That’s an awful lot of words to implicitly say “it’s not political if I agree with it”

                “If a person asks themselves is this political they can answer correctly 95% of the time.”

                Yea turns out it’s easier to answer a question correctly if you’re deciding I’d the answer is right or not.

                • Sotuanduso@lemm.ee
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                  1 year ago

                  That’s an awful lot of words to implicitly say “it’s not political if I agree with it”

                  Where are you getting that?

                  • Adkml [he/him]@hexbear.net
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                    1 year ago

                    Where you said your test is asking yourself if you thought it was political and saying you were right 95% of the time.

      • UlyssesT [he/him]@hexbear.net
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        1 year ago

        just requesting they post their political memes in the designated political meme space

        How is everyone supposed to know what parts of reality and conceivable concepts are political to you and which parts of it are just the political status quo norms that you’re so comfortable with that you don’t notice it the way a fish doesn’t notice water?

      • Tankiedesantski [he/him]@hexbear.net
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        1 year ago

        Exactly! Just like how nobody was saying Rosa Parks couldn’t ride the bus. She would have gotten to her destination anyway had she just ridden at the back like we requested!

        • FunkyStuff [he/him]@hexbear.net
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          1 year ago

          political memes are not comparable to segregation wtf, i dont mean to friendly fire but this take is not the dunk you think it is

          • Tankiedesantski [he/him]@hexbear.net
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            1 year ago

            You’re right. Wanting people who make you uncomfortable to go to their own area so that you don’t have to see them or think about their political grievances has no parallels with segregation.

            • FunkyStuff [he/him]@hexbear.net
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              1 year ago

              Look, yes obviously as socialists we are not welcome in most public places if we speak out, but of all places to make that claim Lemmy.ml is not the one. The mods here are comrades. This is, next to hexbear and grad, probably one of the online spaces most receptive to us. The lemmitor you were replying to has no institutional power against us at all. I hate to tone police but posting on Lemmy is not comparable to being Rosa Parks and trying to make a tortured analogy isn’t helping anyone.

              • Tankiedesantski [he/him]@hexbear.net
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                1 year ago

                The atomic unit of propaganda is emphasis. If you force people to stop posting “political” memes in the main memes space then you are implicitly taking the stance is that “non-political” memes are normal and “political” memes are the other. Everyone intuitively understands that being othered is not desirable because the advocates for separation are not the ones volunteering to create their own apolitical memes space, they’re trying to get political memes ejected from the mainstream space.

                Of course this isn’t literal segregation, but the arguments for separation basically all boil down to “go to this separate but equal space and stay there” so if they don’t want to be compared to people who historically made the same argument, they should try coming up with a different argument.

      • Piers@beehaw.org
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        1 year ago

        You’re on the memes community for a political instance. If you were complaining about politics in the lemm.ee or lemmy.world meme communities I’d be entirely with you.

    • betheydocrime@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      The funny thing is, deciding which memes are political and which memes are not political is itself a political decision

      You just can’t escape it

      • Godric@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        I think I can figure out where “DAE X political party bad?!?!?!?” should be