Neo-nazis and far right wingnuts have 2 brain cells, and if any one of those scumbags could see beyond their noses they’d know they’re too stupid to have any power.
Proof comes from watching the GOP flush America down the toilet.
The American Fascist Party controls the House of Representatives. Their criminal Dear Leader is going to get the nomination to be their candidate for President. And if he doesn’t win, they will respond with violence.
And if he doesn’t win, they will respond with violence.
I sure hope that violence monopoly that the legal government wields can be used for good also. They were a bit lackluster on Jan 6th but perhaps they learned something there.
They were a bit lackluster on Jan 6th but perhaps they learned something there.
They weren’t “lackluster” on Jan 6th - they simply treated that white supremacist lynch mob the way the US has always treated white supremacist lynch mobs… with kid gloves.
They are not stupid; they are an existential threat. Quit underestimating them!
Actually, the person you are responding to is correct - the far-right is too incompetent to gain power on their own. Power has to be handed to them by liberal regimes that can’t handle working-class revolt without the indiscriminate violence the far-right offers. That is why states always treat the far-right with kid gloves and allows it to fester - the ruling elites know that they might need them someday.
Maybe a simpler way of explaining that is that it always boils down to this; when forced to choose between supporting leftist/prog politics and fascism, it’s the status-quo liberals that consistently choose fascism out of fear that anything lefty/social-justicey would be too disruptive
Call it pedantry if you want, but the fascists themselves are what truly “makes fascism possible”.
Yes, there are plenty of folks have culpability in allowing these fucks gain control, from short-sighted collaborators who just want profit, idiots who think “they can’t really be that bad”, but there’s an extent to which I think we should be careful about victim-blaming well-meaning (but naive) folks who believe that Liberty and Justice will win the day (being misled by whitewashed historical narratives who erase the boots on the ground required to make social and political changes - and the organization necessary to resist the rise of fascists).
I get your point, and clearly (from the paragraph I just typed) agree to an extent - I just think it’s reductive to the point of undermining the movements against fascism when “liberals” all get thrown in the same basket.
Your analysis is almost there… but it’s missing something crucial - it’s missing an understanding of what the status quo actually is.
The people who are truly culpable for fascists existing are the people who need fascists to exist. Just look at the proto-fascist institution you are most familiar with - the police. The police did not invent itself - it was invented by a ruling elite that required the violence only a fascist element could provide. Fascism is not some aberration of the classical liberal nation-state - it’s an inherent feature.
When those who benefit from the status quo is threatened by revolt from below it is this fascist element that will provide the violence that secures the safety of their power and privilege - in fact, sometimes they will literally hand the reigns of the state over to this fascist element (as happened in mid-20th century Germany, Italy and Japan). And it never happens without the acquiescence of the (so-called) moderates, centrists and, of course, liberals.
We can hate fascists as much as we want… but fascists did not breed themselves, school themselves in the most depraved forms of violence and then let themselves off the leash.
We don’t disagree: there’s a short-sightedness that causes folks to say things like “once the boomers die out, things will be great”. There are systemic issues that gauze the greed and fear and violence, and the folks that get swept up in these movements are in large part products of their environment, as we all are.
So we need to change the environment, but otherwise well-meaning folks don’t want it to change because they benefit from it, even when they are vaguely aware that there are monsters out there that keep it that way. I’d like to think there’s more liberals/moderates who would be allies against fascism if this kind of thing can be communicated in a way that doesn’t alienate folks, but I’m also sympathetic to arguments that fiery language is necessary to rattle people out of comfort zones… So in sum, thanks for the good discussion.
They were too stupid, especially in Europe they would get so much backlash they just went back to their basements.
But over the years, they got smarter, more eloquent in how they discreetly were racist, not only against Jews, but also Muslims, Africans, Southeast Asians, everyone that’s different to be honest. The latest study shows 26% of Belgium is racist.
The news also plays into that, by giving up the DESCENT of a perpetrator, instead of his/her Belgian ID. Mostly for crimes not terrorism related. Day in day out, this black man hit his wife, this Turkish guy did that, …
They never call them Belgians. If the perpetrator is a brown man born and raised here, his parents were born and raised here, but one of his grandfathers was from Morocco, Turkey, etc… They still describe him like ‘a 23 year old Belgian man of Moroccon DESCENT…’ this fed into it. Every time I saw this happen, I wrote to said paper to stop doing that, unless it involves a terrorist attack against a church, mosque, Jewish temple, café, etc… Even then, if they have a Belgian ID, they should still be described as Belgian guy with ideological differences…
Any news about Muslim girls harassed, assaulted, gangraped by Nazis was en still is getting downplayed and we’re made out to be liars. It won’t see the press. It still happens to this day.
Also, the latest I’ve seen is them discussing on certain forums whether it would be better for the ‘protection’ of Muslims (to start with) if they would put them in concentration camps? This one made me sick and I’m letting all my Belgian friends know that this is going on and fortunately everyone was outraged. But also, they have their heads in their asses, they even don’t follow the news, because they can’t do anything about it.
But someone has to know and do something. I’m thinking about compiling a list of all the forums i’ve seen this talked about and send them to every press agency, every community leader, also our new immigrant centers where there are a lot of young people, so they know not to engage and/or associate with these people and be educated against Nazi’s.
It’s a thin distinction, and I don’t know that I would use that exact phrasing, but I get it…. And I also get why it didn’t get read the way you intended.
Neo-nazis and far right wingnuts have 2 brain cells, and if any one of those scumbags could see beyond their noses they’d know they’re too stupid to have any power.
Proof comes from watching the GOP flush America down the toilet.
The American Fascist Party controls the House of Representatives. Their criminal Dear Leader is going to get the nomination to be their candidate for President. And if he doesn’t win, they will respond with violence.
I sure hope that violence monopoly that the legal government wields can be used for good also. They were a bit lackluster on Jan 6th but perhaps they learned something there.
They weren’t “lackluster” on Jan 6th - they simply treated that white supremacist lynch mob the way the US has always treated white supremacist lynch mobs… with kid gloves.
Um. They absolutely did but not what you wish they did.
This is the kind of naive bullshit that keeps people complacent until they suddenly find themselves being marched off to the showers.
They are not stupid; they are an existential threat. Quit underestimating them!
Actually, the person you are responding to is correct - the far-right is too incompetent to gain power on their own. Power has to be handed to them by liberal regimes that can’t handle working-class revolt without the indiscriminate violence the far-right offers. That is why states always treat the far-right with kid gloves and allows it to fester - the ruling elites know that they might need them someday.
…good point, actually.
Oh of course, it’s the “liberals” who are the real enemy.
Maybe a simpler way of explaining that is that it always boils down to this; when forced to choose between supporting leftist/prog politics and fascism, it’s the status-quo liberals that consistently choose fascism out of fear that anything lefty/social-justicey would be too disruptive
I’m afraid they are - and always have been.
The only thing that makes fascism possible is liberals “reaching across the aisle.”
Call it pedantry if you want, but the fascists themselves are what truly “makes fascism possible”.
Yes, there are plenty of folks have culpability in allowing these fucks gain control, from short-sighted collaborators who just want profit, idiots who think “they can’t really be that bad”, but there’s an extent to which I think we should be careful about victim-blaming well-meaning (but naive) folks who believe that Liberty and Justice will win the day (being misled by whitewashed historical narratives who erase the boots on the ground required to make social and political changes - and the organization necessary to resist the rise of fascists).
I get your point, and clearly (from the paragraph I just typed) agree to an extent - I just think it’s reductive to the point of undermining the movements against fascism when “liberals” all get thrown in the same basket.
Your analysis is almost there… but it’s missing something crucial - it’s missing an understanding of what the status quo actually is.
The people who are truly culpable for fascists existing are the people who need fascists to exist. Just look at the proto-fascist institution you are most familiar with - the police. The police did not invent itself - it was invented by a ruling elite that required the violence only a fascist element could provide. Fascism is not some aberration of the classical liberal nation-state - it’s an inherent feature.
When those who benefit from the status quo is threatened by revolt from below it is this fascist element that will provide the violence that secures the safety of their power and privilege - in fact, sometimes they will literally hand the reigns of the state over to this fascist element (as happened in mid-20th century Germany, Italy and Japan). And it never happens without the acquiescence of the (so-called) moderates, centrists and, of course, liberals.
We can hate fascists as much as we want… but fascists did not breed themselves, school themselves in the most depraved forms of violence and then let themselves off the leash.
We don’t disagree: there’s a short-sightedness that causes folks to say things like “once the boomers die out, things will be great”. There are systemic issues that gauze the greed and fear and violence, and the folks that get swept up in these movements are in large part products of their environment, as we all are.
So we need to change the environment, but otherwise well-meaning folks don’t want it to change because they benefit from it, even when they are vaguely aware that there are monsters out there that keep it that way. I’d like to think there’s more liberals/moderates who would be allies against fascism if this kind of thing can be communicated in a way that doesn’t alienate folks, but I’m also sympathetic to arguments that fiery language is necessary to rattle people out of comfort zones… So in sum, thanks for the good discussion.
Sure thing.
They were too stupid, especially in Europe they would get so much backlash they just went back to their basements.
But over the years, they got smarter, more eloquent in how they discreetly were racist, not only against Jews, but also Muslims, Africans, Southeast Asians, everyone that’s different to be honest. The latest study shows 26% of Belgium is racist.
The news also plays into that, by giving up the DESCENT of a perpetrator, instead of his/her Belgian ID. Mostly for crimes not terrorism related. Day in day out, this black man hit his wife, this Turkish guy did that, …
They never call them Belgians. If the perpetrator is a brown man born and raised here, his parents were born and raised here, but one of his grandfathers was from Morocco, Turkey, etc… They still describe him like ‘a 23 year old Belgian man of Moroccon DESCENT…’ this fed into it. Every time I saw this happen, I wrote to said paper to stop doing that, unless it involves a terrorist attack against a church, mosque, Jewish temple, café, etc… Even then, if they have a Belgian ID, they should still be described as Belgian guy with ideological differences…
Any news about Muslim girls harassed, assaulted, gangraped by Nazis was en still is getting downplayed and we’re made out to be liars. It won’t see the press. It still happens to this day.
Also, the latest I’ve seen is them discussing on certain forums whether it would be better for the ‘protection’ of Muslims (to start with) if they would put them in concentration camps? This one made me sick and I’m letting all my Belgian friends know that this is going on and fortunately everyone was outraged. But also, they have their heads in their asses, they even don’t follow the news, because they can’t do anything about it.
But someone has to know and do something. I’m thinking about compiling a list of all the forums i’ve seen this talked about and send them to every press agency, every community leader, also our new immigrant centers where there are a lot of young people, so they know not to engage and/or associate with these people and be educated against Nazi’s.
I wonder what rock youve been living under that the far right doesnt hold any power.
I didn’t say they don’t have power. I said they’re too stupid to have power.
“Deserve” might have been a better word choice, even if it ascribes a moral imperative that doesn’t quite work either.
It’s a thin distinction, and I don’t know that I would use that exact phrasing, but I get it…. And I also get why it didn’t get read the way you intended.
And the speaker of the House is … ?
Most of them are too stupid to hold power, but there are enough smart but evil ones that it doesn’t matter much.