“Kenny just began to gasp for air repeatedly and the execution took about 25 minutes total.”

Pretty compassionate way to kill a person.

Once again, the Law in the south is brutal.

  • DreBeast@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    87
    arrow-down
    9
    ·
    edit-2
    11 months ago

    The state tells you murder is illegal. Except when the state does it. You can’t expect people to follow, “do what I say, not what I do.”

    It’s cruel, it’s a reflection of our morals. The death penalty is not a deterrent for murder. The death penalty is hypocrisy. The death penalty is for an unserious society.

    But the death penalty is just a symptom of a greater chronic illness we suffer from. We’ll just continue to kill ourselves until we find a cure for the disease.

    Edit: I see many do not like my wording for state sanctioned murder. If you are reading this and don’t understand, imagine if listening to George Bush (can’t remember which) tell the tv America doesn’t negotiate with terrorists. He’s drawing a moral line in the sand with terrorism. That’s my point. We need to figure out where our moral line in the sand is with the death penalty, because right now it’s all over the place. Do I think outlawing the death penalty will solve our societal woes? No, I do not. The people will demand it until it is reinstated. For me I ask what is the purpose of the death penalty? Does it serve a greater good for a society? Obviously it does not. Americans are murdered all the time, so it serves no purpose.

    • n2burns@lemmy.ca
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      4
      ·
      11 months ago

      I want to preface this by saying I am against the death penalty.

      The argument

      The state tells you murder is illegal. Except when the state does it.

      really falls apart when you consider all the other things the state is allowed to do that would be otherwise illegal. The simplest comparison is imprisonment but there are dozens of others.

      • BigDanishGuy@sh.itjust.works
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        2
        ·
        11 months ago

        Exactly, the government has a monopoly on a lot of things, among them violence and as an extent of that monopoly also incarceration.

        I can see how some people have a hard time grasping that. I mean most of us would like to have no violence at all, so allowing some that power can seem strange. But how about traffic laws?

        You can’t get in your car and go 200km/h down the road, which I sometimes would like to, but I hope we all can see how everyone doing 200, where 80 is more appropriate, would be a problem. So we’re ok with police/fire/rescue being the only ones allowed to break the speed limits and running red lights, right? It’s the same thing.

        We’ve got specially trained people, who have been given strict guidelines for doing stuff ordinary citizens can’t do, because the society need something done that can’t be done without these powers … and who have oversight (hopefully), so these powers aren’t abused.

        • EatATaco@lemm.ee
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          2
          arrow-down
          2
          ·
          11 months ago

          Does your text box not have a little “B” above it? If not **text** will make it bold. Surrounding the text with a single * will make it italics.

    • Iceblade@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      2
      ·
      11 months ago

      Only situation I’d accept a death sentence is if a person indisputably poses a credible threat to other peoples lives, even while imprisoned.

      Essentially, anybody previously convicted of murder who then proceeds to (beyond any doubt) attempt murder again. At that point it’s not about punishment, it’s about protecting human life.

    • EatATaco@lemm.ee
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      3
      arrow-down
      2
      ·
      11 months ago

      I will also preface this by saying I am 100% against the death penalty. The fact that we could put an innocent person to death for what I see as zero gain makes it very hard to convince me otherwise.

      However:

      The state tells you murder is illegal. Except when the state does it.

      Murder is by definition the illegal killing of someone. Unless I’m mistaken, every state has some law on the book that allows you to kill someone, at least in the case of self defense or the defense of another when it’s reasonable to believe there is imminent danger to one’s life. And the defense of the DP is that it’s “defending” society against these criminals. It’s BS, but your point is also incorrect.

    • djdadi@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      1
      arrow-down
      2
      ·
      11 months ago

      This is kind of a silly argument. The state is not a person. When they fine you money, it is not identical to someone stealing from you.

      • JdW@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        18
        arrow-down
        8
        ·
        11 months ago

        The state does not care whether they are innocent as well, and that callousness is just as bad from the eyes of people living in a civilized society…

        • 52fighters@sopuli.xyz
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          6
          arrow-down
          7
          ·
          11 months ago

          I’m pretty sure this guys’s guilt was beyond dispute. States have so many appeals and checks on capital punishment that it is much, much cheaper to default to life in prison. The economic argument isn’t noble but should be included in the debate.

          • GreyEyedGhost@lemmy.ca
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            7
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            11 months ago

            It’s estimated that 4% of prisoners on death row are innocent. Sure, we’re certain about this guy, but that’s the case for those 4%, as well.

            • 52fighters@sopuli.xyz
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              1
              arrow-down
              2
              ·
              11 months ago

              That’s a good argument for increasing the threshold of guilt for capital crimes. But of those legitimately and obviously guilty, do they owe a debt equal to their own life for murdering someone else?

              • GreyEyedGhost@lemmy.ca
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                3
                ·
                11 months ago

                How does their death pay for that debt? There is no compensation, no restitution has been made, nothing else is corrected. So, why?

                • 52fighters@sopuli.xyz
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  arrow-down
                  1
                  ·
                  11 months ago

                  It would be restoration by proxy. I once had a friend who stole money. He did not know the person and could never find him again. To make restoration he gave an equal amount plus reasonable interest to a charity, anonymously. The charity was a proxy for the man from whom he stole.

                  • GreyEyedGhost@lemmy.ca
                    link
                    fedilink
                    arrow-up
                    1
                    ·
                    11 months ago

                    So, was the restoration something he lost, or something he returned to someone else? Would it have been restoration if he just burned the money instead of giving the money to someone?

          • PopMyCop@iusearchlinux.fyi
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            5
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            edit-2
            11 months ago

            Which opinion? That the state doesn’t care about whether a victim of a murderer is innocent or also a criminal? You can look up just about any criminal case and see that criminals are just as often victims of crime as any ‘innocent’ person.

            If you mean that the state doesn’t care if it executes innocent people, well: https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/policy-issues/innocence

            • GilgameshCatBeard@lemmy.ca
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              1
              arrow-down
              3
              ·
              11 months ago

              So aside from your opinion… and a link that doesn’t even suggest what states actually care about,

              got anything else?

        • GilgameshCatBeard@lemmy.ca
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          6
          arrow-down
          5
          ·
          edit-2
          11 months ago

          Woah there, kiddo. It appears you haven’t learned how crime and punishment works. You see, there are varying degrees of crimes, and thus- varying degrees of punishment.

          This is why shoplifters aren’t executed.

          Hopefully this simple reference will keep you from embarrassing yourself in the future.

      • BreakDecks@lemmy.ml
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        8
        arrow-down
        6
        ·
        11 months ago

        Civilian murderers also have justifications for their actions. I accept those justifications just as much as I do those of the State murderers.

      • Steak@lemmy.ca
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        3
        arrow-down
        10
        ·
        11 months ago

        This place is so stupid sometimes they’d fight for the rights of their own families murderer’s. No point in trying to put facts in front of people like that. They’ve made their decision.

        • GilgameshCatBeard@lemmy.ca
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          3
          arrow-down
          7
          ·
          11 months ago

          Oh I know. I’d be surprised none of them reported my comment simply because they disagree with it. Lemmy LOVES being outraged.

              • CileTheSane@lemmy.ca
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                1
                arrow-down
                2
                ·
                11 months ago

                Seems Lemmy also loves coming to conclusions on people they know nothing about.

                So how is what I said about you being outraged different from what you said about “Lemmy” being outraged?

                • GilgameshCatBeard@lemmy.ca
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  2
                  arrow-down
                  2
                  ·
                  11 months ago

                  Because I’m showing no indications of actually being outraged, and Lemmy does tens of thousands of times daily.

                  That’s how.

                  • CileTheSane@lemmy.ca
                    link
                    fedilink
                    arrow-up
                    1
                    arrow-down
                    1
                    ·
                    11 months ago

                    I’d be surprised none of them reported my comment simply because they disagree with it

                    You sound pretty outraged.