I don’t see it like that. Just because the outcome is somewhat paradoxical, facts are still on your side here. And it’s not like that study said it’s impossible, just that it rarely works.
I find that especially when you try to deconstruct someone’s bigotry with facts and logic, they just- don’t care. I vividly remember that one instance when I spent a lot of time deconstructing someone’s transphobia, linking various studies, pointing out flaws in their logic, just to get to the core of their issue with trans people - “they make me feel icky”… what are facts and logic going to do about that?
We dress our feelings up in various facts, with various logical conclusions, but though those two can be argued against, trying to change someone’s “but I don’t like this” is really difficult, and for a stranger on the internet it’s near impossible. To cope I like to tell myself that at least I’m perhaps planting seeds of doubt
This link is an article, that quotes articles that quote things, so attributing who said what without reading the entire thing is probably challenging, but I’ll paste some anyway:
Belangia helpfully adds: “A-gnoia means literally ‘not-knowing’; a-mathia means literally ‘not-learning.’ In addition to the type of amathia that is an inability to learn, there is another form that is an unwillingness to learn. … Robert Musii in an essay called On Stupidity, distinguished between two forms of stupidity, one he called ‘an honorable kind’ due to a lack of natural ability and another, much more sinister kind, that he called ‘intelligent stupidity.'”
Belangia also quotes Glenn Hughes, from an essay entitled “Voegelin’s Use of Musil’s Concept of Intelligent Stupidity in Hitler and the Germans,” providing a further elucidation of the concept of amathia (italics in the original):
“The higher, pretentious form of stupidity stands only too often in crass opposition to [its] honorable form. It is not so much lack of intelligence as failure of intelligence, for the reason that it presumes to accomplishments to which it has no right … The stupidity this addresses is no mental illness, yet it is most lethal; a dangerous disease of the mind that endangers life itself. … [S]ince the ‘higher stupidity’ consists not in an inability to understand but in a refusal to understand, any healing or reversal of it will not occur through rational argumentation, through a greater accumulation of data and knowledge, or through experiencing new and different feelings … We may say that the reversal of a spiritual sickness must entail a spiritual cure.”
hm, I’ve always held the belief that if perhaps words and arguments fail then personal experiences must work. Heard so many stories of various bigots finally meeting those who they hate from the comfort of their home and finding out they’re just normal, kind, and fun people, and suddenly their bigotry is cured as they realise there is no reason to hate after all. If that article is correct then that just fucking sucks man
Yeah, it’s not that angry people don’t realise “there’s no reason to hate”, it’s just impossible to let go of it. So impossible, that you’ll straight up claim up is down and left is right if that’s what it takes to avoid admitting to themselves the thing they know are of course true. At that point, having not accepted reality earlier means that they also fear the “shame” of admitting that all the suffering was for nothing.
Three hardest words “I was wrong.” People are afraid to be “shamed” for having been wrong. Not for making mistakes, but having been wrong. If the setup is ‘you’re trying this new thing’, getting it wrong won’t lose you face.
If you’re a known person and you’ve asserted something, then you it’s very hard to go “you know what, I see it now, I was mistaken”. And with groups, it gets harder and harder. And then people just don’t admit to being wrong. Why admit it’s moronic to say “the Earth is flat” when there’s a million morons like you all sharing in the delusion, despite everyone knowing it’s pretense. And then getting angry on online forums. Then start hating “the norms” and suffer alone at home cursing NASA, while really knowing it’s all you.
I think that my mind has been changed by facts. But how do I know? Maybe something else actually changed my mind, and I tell myself it was facts because I like to think of myself as a logical person.
if, as you talked to people, you’ve allowed yourself to feel uncomfortable by genuinely considering they might be right and you’re wrong - you probably did.
to paraphrase an interaction I saw screenshotted somewhere at some point:
“you can change people’s opinions with facts”
“[link] here’s a study saying that’s incorrect”
“well I still think it works”
It’s not logically sound to try to convince someone that you can’t change opinions on the internet. Either you fail or you prove yourself wrong.
I don’t see it like that. Just because the outcome is somewhat paradoxical, facts are still on your side here. And it’s not like that study said it’s impossible, just that it rarely works.
I find that especially when you try to deconstruct someone’s bigotry with facts and logic, they just- don’t care. I vividly remember that one instance when I spent a lot of time deconstructing someone’s transphobia, linking various studies, pointing out flaws in their logic, just to get to the core of their issue with trans people - “they make me feel icky”… what are facts and logic going to do about that?
We dress our feelings up in various facts, with various logical conclusions, but though those two can be argued against, trying to change someone’s “but I don’t like this” is really difficult, and for a stranger on the internet it’s near impossible. To cope I like to tell myself that at least I’m perhaps planting seeds of doubt
The problem is literally willfull ignorance.
This link is an article, that quotes articles that quote things, so attributing who said what without reading the entire thing is probably challenging, but I’ll paste some anyway:
https://howtobeastoic.wordpress.com/2016/01/19/one-crucial-word/
…
Enjoy.
hm, I’ve always held the belief that if perhaps words and arguments fail then personal experiences must work. Heard so many stories of various bigots finally meeting those who they hate from the comfort of their home and finding out they’re just normal, kind, and fun people, and suddenly their bigotry is cured as they realise there is no reason to hate after all. If that article is correct then that just fucking sucks man
Yeah, it’s not that angry people don’t realise “there’s no reason to hate”, it’s just impossible to let go of it. So impossible, that you’ll straight up claim up is down and left is right if that’s what it takes to avoid admitting to themselves the thing they know are of course true. At that point, having not accepted reality earlier means that they also fear the “shame” of admitting that all the suffering was for nothing.
Three hardest words “I was wrong.” People are afraid to be “shamed” for having been wrong. Not for making mistakes, but having been wrong. If the setup is ‘you’re trying this new thing’, getting it wrong won’t lose you face.
If you’re a known person and you’ve asserted something, then you it’s very hard to go “you know what, I see it now, I was mistaken”. And with groups, it gets harder and harder. And then people just don’t admit to being wrong. Why admit it’s moronic to say “the Earth is flat” when there’s a million morons like you all sharing in the delusion, despite everyone knowing it’s pretense. And then getting angry on online forums. Then start hating “the norms” and suffer alone at home cursing NASA, while really knowing it’s all you.
See through you, we can.
Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering.
Removed by mod
I think that my mind has been changed by facts. But how do I know? Maybe something else actually changed my mind, and I tell myself it was facts because I like to think of myself as a logical person.
if, as you talked to people, you’ve allowed yourself to feel uncomfortable by genuinely considering they might be right and you’re wrong - you probably did.