My daughter is 14, but I’m sure answers for kids younger or older can apply.
So, do what you need to do for your family. But I’ll say this. I spent time looking into this last go round because I knew Biden was a temporary reprieve. I’m the parent of a trans kid, we did not leave the country for several reasons.
The entire western world is experiencing this dramatic rise in fascism. There’s no guarantee that you will actually avoid this long term.
Many countries (especially the UK) have draconian immigration rules, see above note about fascism.
We ultimately decided to move to a blue state, from a red one, primarily for safety reasons, and made it happen over a couple years. We are far happier in this situation and are now able to help extract other loved ones from similar situations.
Again, do what you need to do for yours and your family’s safety, but you’re in for a tough go of it regardless of what you choose.
ETA: I went as far as interviewing for some jobs in Canada after building my immigration profile and starting the job search in NZ.
The UK is eliminating conversion therapy. The U.S. still has it and Trump has a good chance of forcing people into it.
I’m a dual citizen, I have a queer daughter. I think it’s worth taking advantage of that since my wife and I wouldn’t forgive ourselves if she got taken from us.
Somehow,.I forgot that “conversion therapy” is anti-gay cult torture-y stuff.
For a bit, I was thinking it was therapy for people who wanted to transition. Because I forgot the word transition and thought it was “convert”.
I know this is meaningless, but I felt like sharing. Lol
I wish we could all forget what it means.
That’s a very different calculation then! I can’t say I’d do it differently in your shoes. Godspeed.
Thank you.
This seems reasonable. I don’t feel like Canada necessarily in a less precarious place than (e.g.) California.
Canadians feel the same.
Immigration rules are not an issue. I have dual citizenship. Thanks though.
if you’re planning to leave because trump got elected, then be warned. the UK has similar problems
Similar risks I would say. The UK by and large chose “the sensible option” in the last general election. The equivalent of Harris/dems, or the “anti chaos” option.
Reelecting Trump vs reelecting the Tories is a fair comparison, especially as the Tories are moving further and further right wing.
In summary the labour party have about 3 years to make some noticeable impact to people’s lives in the UK, but all that against the backdrop of huge financial issues incurred during the past decade or so, increasing war and conflict and now the Trump presidency.
There very well maybe people who will follow the conservative party on their way further right. The UK already had it’s brexit moment and has not really learned from it fully.
The UK government is getting rid of conversion therapy. Labour wants to, the king wants to, the C of E wants to, and because of the last part, enough Tories want to that it will happen.
So it doesn’t have similar problems when you have a queer child.
LGB is one thing, Q and T are another. There’s a reason it’s so often referred to as “TERF Island”.
Piss off, the UK is one of the safest places to be gay and to grow up gay in the world.
Absolutely - it’s a great place to be gay or lesbian, and presumably bi as well. Trans or gender nonconforming is another matter.
As unfortunate as that is, it is not in issue with my child. I know what I’m doing to keep her safe. I just don’t know enough about adjusting her to school.
TERFs are absolutely a tiny but vocal minority. Most people couldn’t give a toss.
That moment when I question what Q stands for. Lesbian Gay Bi ? Trans I thought the Q was queer, which always seemed redundant, so I just took it to mean pans. Like LGBPT.
Yep, Q is Queer (also sometimes Questioning). It’s kind of a fuzzy category to define from the outside, but covers people who don’t consider themselves to fall within any of the other categories.
Non binary and other gender nonconforming folks will often identify as queer. So may people who challenge cis- or hetero-normativity, monamory, and other social norms around gender and sexuality (look into “Queer Theory”).
Care to elaborate on those reasons? And I don’t want to hear about JK Rowling. Every country has loud twats on twitter.
Look up trans healthcare rights in the UK. Transphobia is actively being promoted by our government based on shitty unfounded but politically backed science like the Cass report.
And while the UK is probably one of the safest places in the world to be gay, there is still homophobia. If you’re visibly queer and ever have to rely on healthcare services, you will most likely experience it.
I’m familiar, a good friend of mine is going through it at the moment. I’m not saying it’s perfect, I’m saying we don’t deserve the name “terf island” when we’re ranked 15th in the world for trans rights.
Since you say you’re already familiar with the Cass report and issues like multi year wait times for initial appointments for transition care, I’ll jump to other examples.
Media - From the BBC, to the Guardian, to Channel 4, transphobia is given a megaphone.
Rising levels of hate crimes
Guidance to schools includes outing transgender children to their parents
I’m just trying to be a little bit more optimistic about things, I feel like we’ve had some real progression in the last decade. My workplace has tampons in the men’s toilets which would have seemed inconceivable ten years ago. Everyone I know has been accepting of my friends that transitioned, even ones that vote Tory. I guess people on the internet just really want to be pessimistic and cry about how bad everything is. I’ll stop arguing here, feel free to continue the doom and gloom.
Everywhere does right now :(
Quatsch, Merz ist super sympathisch und seine Brandmauer ist unüberwindbar! 😐
We’re in danger
I feel like Ireland is still mostly reasonable despite some recent nonsense. Elections just got called yesterday so I may eat my words in three weeks but I don’t think so. The extremists were roundly rejected in the recent European elections which was comforting.
Welp. That’s good enough for me! I’m coming over! 😉
UK Trump is slightly younger
I have not, but I’ve done some immigration and have general advice:
Immigration is expensive and very time consuming to get the required documents.
- Figure out how you’re going to get residence, what visa you’ll be on, what visa your kids will be on
- See if you have to enroll in school ahead of time
- Test the job market by applying, interviewing, and getting offers beforehand. Even if you decline them, you don’t want to be surprised
- Make a spreadsheet of needed documentation for each person. Forgetting one thing can screw you up badly on the day you need it
- Do everything above, twice, to make sure you didn’t screw up the first time
Imo immigration is an amazing way to live the only life you have, but make sure you put in the work to make it work. I’ve seen lots of immigrants give up and go back to their home country before putting in the effort to fully realize their dreams, and it’s low-key sad
Maybe contact an immigration specialist in your country of interest?
No advice yet as I’m in the same exact boat. We’re about to get ours evaluated for ADHD privately while unconvinced it’s the best option… Ours is young enough that he doesn’t really have memories of the US and started school here, but still comes off as blatantly American. It’s been a comedy of errors learning how the school system works (putting him and my wife through school the last 3 years, somehow).
But hey, hit me up if you’re ever out near Kent, I figure I owe you a pint or three for all the work you do to keep things fresh on Lemmy.
Will do, thanks!
Damn. If it wasn’t you I was gonna dunk a bit.
Like. “Get ready, because they teach kids. Also, they hold back the ones who don’t pass. So they won’t leave them behind so much as Keep them behind.”
And, you know, I’d leave some grammar bits in there too.
I just wanna say I hope you can get clear and bring the family to safety. I worry it’s harder with any pre-existing conditions - it’s brutal to get into Canada with even diabetes - but I hope you can make it.
Good luck.
Damn. If it wasn’t you I was gonna dunk a bit.
Thought the same. Was going to say their kids will start talking funny in few years after the move.
Thiiis propa’ geeze’ wouldan understand them talk, yeah?
If it’s well controlled you can pass the exam, but yeah, still adds difficulty.
You also have to take an English language exam, for migration to any English speaking country. In 2022 those were only offered in large cities, I looked at flying to Chicago for one, but the results are only good for like 2 years iirc.
And you have to get cleared by the local police of… Anywhere you’ve ever lived? (I can’t remember if there was a federal check that was also acceptable or not)
And that’s not everything, and for Canada that’s just to get in the pool for lottery.
That’s if you’re not from a native speaking country, and isn’t required in the UK, at least not initially. You don’t need such a police check either.
You are describing citizenship. Most countries allow long term residence (>3 months) with lower requirements. It’s often easiest to look for work first, if you are competitively skilled, or are looking somewhere with labour shortages, as sponsorship makes it easier.
IELTS (or acceptable equivalent) is required for visa entry to Canada even if you originate from an English speaking country. Iirc, at least Australia and NZ are the same.
Having certain job classifications will get you more points in the express entry pool, if that’s the way you are going, it can make it easier, but already having a job/offer is worth a lot more points iirc.
She is a citizen anyway, through me.
We moved to NZ temporarily with 8 and 5 year ollds and they had to make new friends, be away from family and only see people from back home via video calls. Luckily the school and community are nice and welcoming so they rolled with it really well.
The visa application was long and expensive (application fees, specific medicals for immigration, etc.) so that part can get immensely frustrating.
What really helped is having similar aged neighbors for the kids to play with where we can hang out with a few beers as well.
I got no helpful advice, but wishing you and your family all the best.
I can’t offer any comparison between the Us and the UK, but I have some experience of having a neurodivergent child in the UK. We live in the NE of England, an area which is on average pretty deprived by UK standards*, however the support from the primary and secondary state schools we have used has been exceptional, with additional staffing as required and sensitive adaptions to needs throughout. There was some bullying at one point in primary school, but that was dealt with promptly and effectively and strategies were put in place to avoid social isolation - things it would never have occurred to me to do. The support for LGBTQ kids in secondary has also been pleasantly surprising - to the point that those who try to pick on trans kids find themselves becoming persona non grata pretty quickly.
There are some pretty huge cultural differences between the UK and the US, as you will know, and I suspect adjusting to those are going to be the primary problem in the move, rather than the support for a neurodivergent or SEN child.
*I feel like I should stand up for my adopted North-East; whilst it’s true that there are deprived areas, the NE is a beautiful place, the people are friendly and welcoming and the cost of living is low compared to many areas. The accents are proper canny too!
That is excellent to hear. Thank you.
Neurodivergent kids can get an Education, Health and Care Plan (EHCP). We’ve found this great with the right state school - break time provisions, 1:1 sessions, mental health help, extra time in exams etc.
I would say get a report from an educational psychologist (even though they say you don’t need to below) or arm yourself with evidence, most likely, like all benefits in the UK, you may have trouble with the first application, but get help from a charity or professional with wording and apply again, every time helps.
Happy to have you!
Thanks. We have a full report from a place that does evaluations with lots of test result information, so hopefully that will work.
I really appreciate all of these websites people are sharing!
Take a holiday there as a family for several weeks. Get out of London and see some places. See how your family enjoy their time there. It’ll give you all some perspective.
I’ve been there many times. My father is from there. I’m a citizen. Enjoyment isn’t an issue. This is about my daughter’s safety.
But since I’ve never been there to live with a school-age kid, that’s something I could use some advice on. Of course, I’m reading up on it as well, but I wouldn’t mind some pointers on this specific issue.
I live here too but I don’t have a personal perspective on the kind of move you’re thinking of making.
What I can suggest is there is plenty of data to help you inform your decision.
Here’s a map of crimes in the UK so you can input a place you’re thinking of moving to and what the crime rate is like in the area (and the nature of the crime).
Guns aren’t a fear here. Yes you can get a shotgun or an air rifle but no automatic weapons, there’s a lot of regulation, checks, and requirements. Even with gangs in major cities, you’ve not much to fear about. And even knife crime pales in comparison to the states. I’ve lived in some of the most dangerous areas and I’ve been fine. With a young woman in your family, common sense, staying to well lit areas etc and they’ll be fine.
Schools are inspected by a government agency called Ofsted so you can look to what specific area of a place you’d want to move to to be in the catchment area of a decent school.
The government department, the Office for National Statistics, has a map that shows where areas of household deprivation are by percentage of population in the area. In general, the higher the percentage on the map, the more affluent the average person is in an area. This correlates with crime so you would be better to find a less deprived area if you’ve a young family.
Flooding can be a risk so you can look for long term flood risk areas here and historic flooding areas here.
And naturally, it would be best to look for a job first as, especially if you’re looking at senior or executive positions, the org may help you with visas and relocating.
Thank you for all the helpful links! I appreciate it!
I wish you and your family the best. It’s a scary time. Love from Canada.
Thank you!
Yep we are next with lil PP pretty much guaranteed to get elected.
I wasn’t (as) worried until Trump won. Now we’re going to have Trump sycophants running our federal government.
Here is a ‘great’ report on Canadian preferences for the States. It highlights fun facts like:
Q: An American Presidential Election will be held in November. Which candidate would you most like to see win?
Majorities of both men and women in Canada prefer Kamala Harris over Donald Trump. However, the preference for Harris is somewhat stronger among women (68%) than among men (51%). While only a minority of men prefer Trump, they are 12 percentage points more likely to do so than are women (27%, compared to 15%). Since 2020, Trump’s appeal has increased by seven percentage points among men (from 20% to 27%) and by five points among women (from 10% to 15%).
And then we get to this:
FIGURE 5 U.S. presidential election: preferred candidate, by federal vote intention (2024)
And if you were curious if it was just a Con thing, as usual no, it’s men again:
I’m extremely worried for my queer and female friends and loved ones. My queer child is already getting more and more aggressive threats from both people they know and don’t know. Two weeks ago it was threatening to attack them after school. Last week was a bottle thrown at them with a ‘vote Trump, removed!’ shout.
I won’t stand by that, so I’m going to dress and act as out as I ever have, so they come for me instead. Come at me, Cons, I’m not afraid.
Some relevant words on the UK from an energy economist here.
I’m not sure what that has to do with school, but thanks.
It doesn’t—sorry I didn’t make that clearer. I lump the conversation about emigration in with looking for a better life. I meant the article to contribute to the quality of life angle. Hope that helps.
I will look it over. Thank you.
Is your kid neurotypical? If so it’s going to be much easier for you to move almost anywhere in the UK.
If not, and/or if you can afford it, look into smaller private schools with lots of extra curricular activities going on. With the smaller class sizes, education and potential for assimilating with peers will be drastically improved for your kid, and you will have a much easier time meeting other parents and forming a community too.
Otherwise state schools with lots of arts and sciences funding are probably your best bet, so look into that, find a good one and try to move to their catchment area.
Also if you or your kid have any mental/health issues, get health insurance. NHS waiting lists are very long and the quality of service is often poor, especially for people in vulnerable situations and for visibly queer/trans/neurodiverse female presenting/bodied folk. Honestly, just get health insurance anyway if you can afford it, it should be cheaper here than in the US at least.
Disclaimer: I’m neither a parent nor an American in the UK, but I am from here and went to a lot of schools as a kid (moved a lot) and I am queer.
Thanks for all the info. Unfortunately she is not neurotypical and she does have mental health issues. We will try to get insurance ASAP, but we may just have to deal with the NHS at first. I have major medical issues myself.
For the beginning, as long as we can get our medications refilled, we’ll be okay. We’ll see what we can afford in terms of other things. That said, she is very willing to put in the effort herself to make this work because she knows what’s at stake, so hopefully that determination will help her.
Some areas in the UK have drastically better autism and adhd services than others. Like day and night drastically.
From memory, and sorry to direct you back there, Reddit’s UK autism and adhd boards did have some resources on this, and will probably have enough of a user base to be able to give you a good idea of where is currently good or bad.
Cheltenham is probably still really good for both NHS and charity/independent adhd, autism and mental health services for both kids and adults- but my information on the area is now nearly 5 years old, so you will have to look it up for yourself.
And I can only speak for NHS adult adhd, autism and MH services in North London, but they’re next to non existent here and will, from experience, very likely be actively detrimental when you are able to access anything.
Thank you, that is all very helpful. We have no idea where we’ll end up quite yet. The first goal is to try to get a job before emigrating, but failing that, trying to do the logistics of who to stay with at first. We have options, thankfully.
I wish you all the luck.
Thanks!
Why the UK, why not Ireland? It’s still a fairly conservative society but the government isn’t nearly as hostile to it’s citizens and you get to be part of the EU.
Because I’m not an Irish citizen.
Oh! I didn’t realize you already had UK citizenship. That’s definitely the easiest way to get to a better place than the US.
Yeah, we are lucky in that respect.
