Before his arrest this week in the killing of UnitedHealthcare’s CEO, Mangione’s family desperately tried to find him, reaching out to former classmates and posting queries on social media.
I have joked before how people really into stoicism tend to be quite emotional and even a risky, as stoicism always seems to be aspirational and doesnt describe the stoic fans behaviour (a good example is the yter Sargon), but this might be a bit of an extreme example.
I started reading Stoicism as an angry discontented man in my mid-20s. At the time it was very helpful and I still appreciate some of the philosophy but I stopped calling myself a Stoic when I saw how some online communities used it as a gateway to right-wing ideology.
One of the central tenets of Stoicism is that the only thing you can control is your own thoughts and actions. It’s very easy to twist that into “the only thing that matters is your own thoughts and actions and no one can ever tell you you’re wrong.”
Also, it easily morphs into the proposition that attempting to fight injustice or make the world a better place beyond improving one’s own lot (and ability to tune out annoyances beyond one’s control) is a fool’s errand, and can be a call to renounce responsibilities and retreat into an internal exile. Which is a useful ideology for the unfree, but antithetical to the propositions of democratic society.
Step one is understanding you only control your own thoughts and actions. Step two is learning how to control your anger and use it as fuel for deliberate actions.
Honestly, I think Luigi here just followed this wisdom. Recognised that he was rightfully angry at the system and directed that anger at someone responsible. You only control your actions, and your action can be to shoot a motherfucker on the street ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I’m not condoning or saying it’s morally acceptable, but I don’t think it’s philosophically incoherent.
Former aspiring stoic here (this was before the internet). I can confirm that it was indeed a coping mechanism for roiling turmoil of emotions masquerading as thoughts constantly entering and exiting stage behind my eyes.
My partner is stoic-adjacent (if that’s a thing; my description, not theirs) and it really bothers me. A lot of “I can control my emotions and choose how I act, you should try that” - yeah stop. We’re human. Emotions are normal. It’s okay to get angry as long as you’re able to vent your frustrations in a healthy way.
Repressing that shit will only make it worse when they eventually do come to the surface. You’re not a machine and you’re not better than those who don’t pretend to act like they are.
A lot of “I can control my emotions and choose how I act, you should try that” - yeah stop. We’re human. Emotions are normal.
Ye, that’s the point? The point is not to suppress emotions but to recognise them as they’re happening to you. It’s not even that there’s objective value assigned to the emotions, it’s simply so that you yourself can perform introspection of the kind “I did that action because I was furious. Now is that good or bad?”. But it’s still entirely okay to make a conscious decision of the form:
I’m gonna punch that motherfucker
Okay, stop, I am feeling fury right now, I shouldn’t allow just the emotion to guide me. Let’s think.
Okay, I thought this through, I’m gonna punch that motherfucker with purpose.
I don’t think there is a real stoic writer out there suggesting you supress your emotions. My interpretation was that it’s easy to be swayed by your own emotions, that it happens to everyone and is very human, and it’s egotistical to think otherwise.
Yeah i think this kind stoicism can also be used as an abusive tactic. Im not trying to armchair psych your rel btw, it also is just a really common mistake people make (mostly men) I certainly have made mistakes like that. And yeah repression is not good.
Just started a Brit show called Sweetpea - while the motivations for doing so are different, it seems like a potentially useful illustration of what can happen when you bottle up your emotions for too long.
it’s definitely linked to rationalism (and various far right bullshits), which right away means people who get into it are likely to be at least cult adjacent. not the most stable spot to be in, psychologically
tangent, as a callow youth I listened to rationally speaking, which used to be a cohosted show with julia galef and massimo pigluicci. mostly after leaving the show (I think?), pigluicci ended up getting really into stoicism and would post shit about how unhappiness is purely one’s own choice etc. when I asked him if jewish people in WWII concentration camps were just choosing to be unhappy he was like yes. so, yeah, that’s stoicism for you
when I asked him if jewish people in WWII concentration camps were just choosing to be unhappy he was like yes
oof.
that whole strain of “it’s only in your mind” motherfuckers who just outright disregard varieties of concrete evidence… whether from biochemically-etc originated body- and being-related problems all the way through things like the example you gave… I’ve had to deal with a couple of them myself (my can of brainworms include some choice seasonal unfun things) and good god do I often want to boop them on the nose
I have joked before how people really into stoicism tend to be quite emotional and even a risky, as stoicism always seems to be aspirational and doesnt describe the stoic fans behaviour (a good example is the yter Sargon), but this might be a bit of an extreme example.
I started reading Stoicism as an angry discontented man in my mid-20s. At the time it was very helpful and I still appreciate some of the philosophy but I stopped calling myself a Stoic when I saw how some online communities used it as a gateway to right-wing ideology.
One of the central tenets of Stoicism is that the only thing you can control is your own thoughts and actions. It’s very easy to twist that into “the only thing that matters is your own thoughts and actions and no one can ever tell you you’re wrong.”
Also, it easily morphs into the proposition that attempting to fight injustice or make the world a better place beyond improving one’s own lot (and ability to tune out annoyances beyond one’s control) is a fool’s errand, and can be a call to renounce responsibilities and retreat into an internal exile. Which is a useful ideology for the unfree, but antithetical to the propositions of democratic society.
Step one is understanding you only control your own thoughts and actions. Step two is learning how to control your anger and use it as fuel for deliberate actions.
Honestly, I think Luigi here just followed this wisdom. Recognised that he was rightfully angry at the system and directed that anger at someone responsible. You only control your actions, and your action can be to shoot a motherfucker on the street ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I’m not condoning or saying it’s morally acceptable, but I don’t think it’s philosophically incoherent.
Petersons Nth rule of life.
Former aspiring stoic here (this was before the internet). I can confirm that it was indeed a coping mechanism for roiling turmoil of emotions masquerading as thoughts constantly entering and exiting stage behind my eyes.
My partner is stoic-adjacent (if that’s a thing; my description, not theirs) and it really bothers me. A lot of “I can control my emotions and choose how I act, you should try that” - yeah stop. We’re human. Emotions are normal. It’s okay to get angry as long as you’re able to vent your frustrations in a healthy way.
Repressing that shit will only make it worse when they eventually do come to the surface. You’re not a machine and you’re not better than those who don’t pretend to act like they are.
Ye, that’s the point? The point is not to suppress emotions but to recognise them as they’re happening to you. It’s not even that there’s objective value assigned to the emotions, it’s simply so that you yourself can perform introspection of the kind “I did that action because I was furious. Now is that good or bad?”. But it’s still entirely okay to make a conscious decision of the form:
I don’t think there is a real stoic writer out there suggesting you supress your emotions. My interpretation was that it’s easy to be swayed by your own emotions, that it happens to everyone and is very human, and it’s egotistical to think otherwise.
Yeah i think this kind stoicism can also be used as an abusive tactic. Im not trying to armchair psych your rel btw, it also is just a really common mistake people make (mostly men) I certainly have made mistakes like that. And yeah repression is not good.
Just started a Brit show called Sweetpea - while the motivations for doing so are different, it seems like a potentially useful illustration of what can happen when you bottle up your emotions for too long.
it’s definitely linked to rationalism (and various far right bullshits), which right away means people who get into it are likely to be at least cult adjacent. not the most stable spot to be in, psychologically
tangent, as a callow youth I listened to rationally speaking, which used to be a cohosted show with julia galef and massimo pigluicci. mostly after leaving the show (I think?), pigluicci ended up getting really into stoicism and would post shit about how unhappiness is purely one’s own choice etc. when I asked him if jewish people in WWII concentration camps were just choosing to be unhappy he was like yes. so, yeah, that’s stoicism for you
oof.
that whole strain of “it’s only in your mind” motherfuckers who just outright disregard varieties of concrete evidence… whether from biochemically-etc originated body- and being-related problems all the way through things like the example you gave… I’ve had to deal with a couple of them myself (my can of brainworms include some choice seasonal unfun things) and good god do I often want to boop them on the nose
As a stoic, yeah isn’t that the point? It’s philosophical therapy (cbt). It’s the stuff you reassure yourself while panicking