As per .world worldnews mod, no discussing naughty stuff like jury nullification.
While this post is blowing up, here’s the book referenced by the shooter:
Delay Deny Defend - Why Insurance Companies Don’t Pay Claims and What You Can Do About It
By request: Full, uncensored video of the shooting. (Fucking obviously NSFW)
wtf
Jury nullification is legal.
Yep. Mods power hungry just like on reddit. Federated platforms exist to not have to deal with this BS.
You need to lie to the judge under oath to do it. There simply aren’t consequences, but it is very much illegal.
Wrong. They try to filter out people who know about jury nullification, but the act itself is not illegal, as you do not have to have the knowledge to accidentally do it anyway.
“They” being the state.
That seems pretty unfair to filter out people who know about it, it’s basically filtering knowledgeable people.
There’s no basically, that’s literally what it is
Just to be clear, one of the standard questions to ask a potential jury is “you must be able to render a verdict solely on the evidence presented at the trial and in the context of the law as I will give it to you in my instructions, disregarding any other ideas, notions, or beliefs about the law. Are you able to do this?”
If you know about jury nullification, with the intent of using it, then you need to lie under oath to get past this question.
The question was taken from the New Mexico US courts
Are you able to do this?
Ahead of time, I could answer truthfully that I am able. I don’t have to say “but when the time comes, I may choose not to for any reason”
I mean that may be “the truth”, but it is purposely not “the whole truth”. Which is a violation of the oath. The only way jury nullification is allowed is if a jury independently decides not to convict, because then jury is unbiased in deciding that the law is wrong or shouldn’t apply.
Again, if you are selected for jury duty, and you already have decided you will ignore the law to avoid convicting the criminal, then there is no way you can make it past the selection without lying to the court.
I think then talks about jury nullification may be changed in such a way that no legal matter is discussed, but a jury is still inclined to act such that nullification happens, and that will be in accordance to the phrasing of the oath
I was a juror in two different trials and don’t recall ever being asked about my beliefs on jury nullification. It’s been many years though.
Edit: it seems like I was wrong. Supposedly, jury nullification is not legal in my US state.
Edit 2: perhaps it’s still not completely settled in my state yet?
Why are people downvoting this? Jury nullification itself isn’t illegal, but committing perjury definitely is, which is what Maalus is pointing out
Because Maalus keeps insisting on treating them as one and the same.
Nullification is your duty when the law is unjust. Also not illegal
Juries wouldn’t work if it didn’t exsist.
Exactly.
I consider human life sacred
Like the lives of those cut short by denying treatment so CEOs and shareholders can make more money?
only God may judge us
Oh, fuck off. If God exists and actually cared, he/she/they would have “judged” the guy a long time ago for introducing needless suffering and cruelty.
only god may judge us
Is a great argument for jury nullification. Because that will allow for god to decide the shooters verdict.
How is jury nullification against .world ToS? It is part of the law! Or more specifically it is literally created from the absence of a law, to allow a fair trial by your peers.
Courts don’t want you to know about jury nullification but it is not illegal. It is a required part of the judicial system.
so trying to prevent people knowing about is is more akin to trying to prevent people from knowing what rights they have?
It’s a TOS violation to discuss one of the very real and legitimate responsibilities you have as a juror?
Like, nullification is a thing because it’s very much the absolute very very last defense against bullshit laws being used against people by a corrupt judicial system.
It’s a moral imperative and something anyone sitting on a jury should understand and be willing to use.
What an absurd take, especially since it sounds like it’s all the .world admins having it.
It’s likely not actually a TOS violation, that person commenting is almost certainly talking out of their ass, likely to try and push their own agenda and make people comply.
theres no faster way to get kicked out of the selection process than mentioning it.
if you want out of jury duty, mention jury nullification and you are out of there.
… and in jail for contempt of court.
If all one had to do was utter ‘JN’ to get out of JD for free nobody even slightly inconvenienced would ever serve.
In reality, they dance around the fact. Ask you questions designed to get you to admit you have no ‘valid’ reason to nullify if you did, at which point you are either guilty of lying under oath or contempt of court.
You have to be firm in your convictions and hold your ground with a valid justification if you are going to try using nullification awareness to weasel out of jury duty because the judge will press, and press until they either think you’re a true believer of a valid reason, or are just trying to shirk your duty.
Link me even one case of that happening.
If they think you even might support nullification, they don’t want you on the jury. They wouldn’t risk that you’re joking or trying to get out of serving.
Here’s a particularly outrageous example. If you watch the entire video he goes on to describe a few more examples where the entire jury must be aware of what JN is but are still acting as jurors.
Those are cases of attempting to encourage specific juries to nullify. You’re not gonna be held in contempt for revealing you support jury nullification during selection.
held in contempt for revealing you support jury nullification during selection.
Yes, you will. If you flat out say “I support Jury Nullification” during voir dire the judge will consider it flagrant contempt for the courts and deal with you accordingly.
What will actually happen is you will be asked a vague question that skirts the issue like “do you have any beliefs which would render you unable to convict or acquit based on the evidence alone?”. If you answer in the affirmative an explanation will be demanded at which point what will your answer be? “I support jury nullification”, same deal. If you have an actual belief that gets in the way like say you abhor the death penalty they will say things like ‘case is regarding a traffic ticket, your concerns do not apply. any other reasons?’. Their goal being to show that any of your reasons either do not apply, or are insufficient in the judge’s eyes for you not to do your duty. At that point you’d still be a juror and if you do nullify for whatever reason there’s nothing they can do afaik.
You’re dreaming if you think you wouldn’t be punished for praising jury nullification in front of a judge and an entire slew of potential jurors during voir dire, when someone was handing out fliers outside the court building was convicted despite no court being in session, no actual juror receiving the pamphlet, and it held on appeals.
TBH you want evidence, the evidence is the court system still functioning because if what you said was true it would collapse in on itself.
Yes, you will. If you flat out say “I support Jury Nullification” during voir dire the judge will consider it flagrant contempt for the courts and deal with you accordingly.
Source? Cause this is some wild shit.
Only god may judge us? Sure, which is why god sent a fucking assassin.
“only God may judge us”
It’s okay, as an atheist, I only recognize the moral authority of humankind, so judge away.
More seriously speaking, PTB. It would be one thing if the justification was “We REALLY do not want any legal trouble and we are just not equipped to take on any challenges, so we’re playing it safe”, but “i consider human life sacred”? They can fuck off.
Human life is sacred, which is why I’m celebrating this POS no longer being able to abuse the sick to make a few extra bucks.
i was asked to moderate anything that is illegal specifically mentioning “jury nullification” and “financially supporting” this has been changed now until a larger announcement is made
many admins and moderators at .world including myself are not american, i pray that the others who are angry at me and hope they consider there are more countries with laws that are different from them
you may disagree with my faith but i consider myself fair in my removal in this violation
when trump was shot i removed comments celebrating this violence when sinwar was killed i removed comments celebrating this violence so when this person is murdered i remove comments celebrating this violence
when users report these comments and those above me ask me to act on this topic i continue as i have for months in these communities
there was no good-faith and productive discussion to be had when you celebrate murder
how can you call others a tankie when you dance on graves as they do?
i have sympathy for the americans who are wronged by the man murdered but instead of violence maybe you consider reading a book to understand the world around you and be open to the power of faith to restore your love of humanity instead of parading violence
i was asked to moderate anything that is illegal specifically mentioning “jury nullification”
By who, pray tell? Because at the moment it seems like you’re the only mod on the server doing so.
there are more countries with laws that are different from them
In which of these countries is it illegal to discuss jury nullification in the US?
i consider myself fair in my removal in this violation
Although you took actions that are based on a version of the rules that nobody else has access to?
those above me ask me to act on this topic
Again, you’re the only one acting on this topic. Who is asking you to do so? Right now it seems like you’re being hung out to dry.
there was no good-faith and productive discussion to be had when you celebrate murder
Weird, I’m seeing a ton of productive discussion in this thread
how can you call others a tankie when you dance on graves as they do?
Because that’s not the definition of tankie. Dancing on graves is not an aspect of any particular ideology.
instead of violence maybe you consider reading a book to understand the world around you and be open to the power of faith to restore your love of humanity instead of parading violence
Stop trying to push your fucking religion on everybody else. You’re the mod of c/News, not c/Christianity.
an admin/community manager were involved in the discussion with me and other moderators
they will be making an announcement on the issue i don’t know when i followed the direction from above to act on the reports and then to stop acting on them
the announcement will include the information
i do not know where the server is?
the version of the rules is the terms of service? https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/
other mods removed posts and comments also the admins site banned people!
because you are discussing me? explain to me how can you have good-faith discussion of premeditated murder?
tankies kill without any respect for law and you are here encouraging this type of murder outside law and government how is it not the same?
you can read whatever book you want and what faith you desire
those that have no faith and do not read it is no surprise you become a murder cheering tankie
ask yourself why do the propaganda instances like .ml hexbear and lemmygrad support this and we are standing for civility?
lemmy.ml gonna ride this for a month lmao
It was pretty well known before this that .world are liberals.
The mods there were always on a power trip if you said the “wrong” thing.
Isn’t basically every Lemmy instance liberal though? At least I haven’t seen any conservative Lemmy instances yet.
Depending on who you ask, the Liberal instances are the conservative instances on Lemmy.
The Overton window of Lemmy doesn’t recognise mainstream conservatism as a legitimate political ideology (rightfully so).
So the arguments of left and right are focussed between authoritarian left and social democrats.
Yeah, I’ve had that happen more on .ml than on .world before switching.
