I need Linux users to understand that Windows folks don’t stop using an operating system just because the support ended
I think that’s because they don’t understand or don’t care about the risks. Annoyingly I was in the process of making my own version of this campaign when it launched but I was aiming to explain why someone should care that the os is no longer supported and why its a problem first, then suggesting what to do about it. Options weren’t exclusively Linux but I realise buying a new device isn’t always an option either so some people will absolutely keep using 10. It’s not about getting to 100%, just enough that you can make a difference or keep devices out of landfill.
good thing there’s not any sort of digital information war going on. i assume having everyone’s computers vulnerable will turn out super good
I know. I was going to post, “and how’s that campaign going?” There was a bit of a spike months that was pretty clearly due to Steam and the Steam Deck, and TBH Linux is undercounted because Linux users are, as a group, less likely to share accurate telemetry and to masquerade as other OSes, but still. I’m not seeing a giant market share spike. I’d expect the refugee population to be less likely to masquerade and to show up clearly a Linux.
Linux users are, as a group, less likely to share accurate telemetry and to masquerade as other OSes
I’m going to assume you meant “more likely” on masquerading, but I do want to point out, Linux users also tend to be more proud of their choice and to want to contribute to the statistics, want to be represented. Maybe those numbers effectively cancel out, but I doubt they significantly lean towards underrepresentation for the reason you mentioned.
“Less likely to share accurate telemetry, and to masquerade”
I am sometimes overcautious about comma usage. In this case, it made my meaning ambiguous.
Much of the telemetry is gathered from web sites harvesting browser self-identification. I would guess that a larger percentage of Linux users are concerned about privacy, and use plugins and settings that obfuscate browser identification, which most do, because browser identification is one of the key analytics fingerprinting that trackers gather. You don’t? Use blockers and privacy settings, I mean.
And, while Microsoft and Apple undoubtedly know about nearly every single installation that is online at any given time, Linux users of most distributions have to actively turn on telemetry. For many distributions, you have to go out of your way to seek out, install, and activate telemetry software. Additionally, unlike Microsoft and Apple, there is no one single source of truth for Linux installations, even for people who set up telemetry; which organization are these Linux distributions phoning home to?
A great many Linux users are also privacy advocates, and we steer well clear of tracking, telemetry, and analytics. A great many of us show up as Microsoft or Apple computers; I’d guess a far larger percent, and greater total number, than Apple or Windows users who show up as Linux. Steam is probably the biggest single contributor to accurate telemetry to impact Linux since advertisers popularized analytics.
You “need” that?
In the absolute, you are wrong. Some will. Some have. I have migrated a few myself.
The end of support is a problem for Windows users and therefore an opportunity for Linux supporters.
Will a large fraction of Windows users migrate to Linux? Probably not. That said, more will move if we educate them and offer our assistance. Even a small migration of Windows users would be a significant increase in Linux Desktop users. If 5 percent of Windows users migrated, it would double the number of Linux users. So, moving even a small percentage of Windows users would be a major success.
Why does that bother you?
The irony is that you migrated them, they did not do this themselves.
Tons of people do not have an “IT guy” in their family of friends who would do such a thing for them. And they don’t care enough to learn how to install any operating system, let alone one they don’t know anything about.
Removed by mod
Makes sense now.
Fuck this guy and fuck the mods.
Not immediately, but eventually… When the the thing stops working correctly (because/or it is infected with entirely new and exciting viruses), they will take it to someone to fix and get told they have to upgrade and it will be pitched entirely as “your computer is a worthless paperweight, please buy a new one”. A campaign like this is there to plant the seed so that when those people get told, they might remember that they have options.
Remember when windows 10 was supposed to be the last version of windows? 🤣
It is the last - that a lot of us here will ever use willingly
Switched from W10 to EndeavourOS about two weeks ago. Happy so far. The full-screen W11 ads/W10 deprecation warnings were what pushed me over the edge.
Yeah, if the MS store and UWP apps worked out for Microsoft (they didn’t lol).
Now win11 is “okay, now this really will be last version of windows, because you can’t refuse installing our crap.”
if the MS store and UWP apps worked out for Microsoft
Interestingly, that’s exactly what prompted Valve to invest heavily into Linux compatibility. They saw a future where Windows became an iPhone-like OS where most users only obtained apps and games via Microsoft’s store, and they absolutely did not like that idea.
That future never came, but later on the project would pay dividends by allowing the Steam Deck to exist.
Yep, and I’d argue thats one of the most fruitful things to come out of MS’s blunders. It incentivized the other stakeholders to get win32/64 compatibility efforts into high gear for linux, and I couldn’t be happier with what we ended up with today (on the linux side ofc)
Edit: Also, I mentioned the MS store and UWP because that was the reason behind that infamous quote - the team wanted to motivate developers to get on board with the platform, and announcing 10 as the last version of Windows was part of that campaign.
There are a significant number of Windows users that lack technical skills and rely on others for support. Many will also have hardware that does not support Windows 11.
They have 4 choices:
- keep using Windows 10 without support
- upgrade to Windows 11 (without support)
- upgrade to Windows 11 (new hardware)
- upgrade to Linux
Many, probably most, of these users will be happy continuing to use an unsupported version of Windows. However not all of their support advisors will be happy with this. That includes me. I do not want to take responsibility for these users on an unsupported operating system.
For the same reasons, I am not going to recommend running Windows 11 without support.
So, the choice is buy new hardware or try Linux.
These people that are perfectly happy with their computers the way they are, why do they want to go buy new computers? This is not a very attractive option. I think it is the least attractive option.
Given the other choices, trying Linux, especially as a trial to see if new hardware purchases can be avoided, sounds attractive.
If you are relying on others for support, moving to Windows 11 or moving to Linux is the same amount of work. It is no more difficult and probably no less scary if somebody is helping you.
People would rather stay with what they have. Microsoft will not let them.
Just moved my mother from Windows 10 to LMDE.
Noice LMDE
I kinda wish I had the time and knowledge to volunteer at my local commu center and do a “Save your old computer from the Dump!” Free upgrade! to Linux" drive.
I considered it, but I think the overwhelming, unexpected workload would be migrating data, training users, and working with them through migration to FOSS applications from Office and the like.
It’s definitely not just going to be “installed Linux on your computer, have a great day!”
Yeah I’d start with Ubuntu or mint. Standard apps like libreoffice scripted install and a desktop link to a YouTube learning series.
Not covering data. Clean wipe only. Hence the “save it from the dump” line.
I’d have the center drop off units with stickers to track owners and do the needful. No interaction to end users.
Follow up could be Linux training workshops in a classroom setting.
I’ve been through this before. If you simply don’t care for the user’s data, most of them will be angry afterward. It’ll hurt the cause.
I’ll add an anecdote that I hope gives everyone some hope though. I did migrate an elderly couple to Ubuntu years ago, and they actually really liked it. I think they found it simpler and faster than windows on their old laptop.
Doing it free means they won’t take care of it or care. Don’t dump that on yourself.
It’s been a hot minute since I’ve used a linux distro for personal use, but I’ve got a laptop that probably needs to move over. That being said, I would still LIKE to play some windows exclusive games on that machine. Is wine still the go to for fudging compatibility? How good is it? Will I be able to download windows only steam games with relatively low effort for such uses?
Proton / wine is modern day magic
Most Windows only steam games work out of the box (you do have to enable it in the right click menu > Compatibility options, per game)
Games that use Anti-cheat aren’t likely to work (it depends on the Anti-cheat used and how it’s configured)
ProtonDB is a good resource for checking if/which games work, or fixes and workarounds
You can use proton or wine on non steam games, but that requires additional setup that I’m not familiar with
My personal experience gaming solely on Linux for about two years is a 100% success rate running Windows games. Mind you I don’t play anything that has anti-cheat. And maybe 85%-90% without needing to fiddle with anything.
Depends entirely on your games list.
If you only play indies and singleplayer, it will probably work out.
If you play AAA and competitive multiplayer, not so much.
Fair point. I dislike competitive multiplayer games. Also why I don’t encounter anything with anti-cheat, as that’s the primary (maybe only?) type of game it’s used for.
But absolutely an important consideration for those that do like competitive multiplayer.
I moved from windows to ubuntu a few months ago. My entire steam library works when I do this. The only games I’ve heard don’t work are LoL and CoD. Maybe a few more?
Okay dank I had no awareness of proton, this is very encouraging! Thanks!
Linux gamer here. Can confirm: both Proton and ProtonDB are wonderful.
There’s also Lutris, https://lutris.net/, which uses wine and other software underneath, but with a nice GUI and a lot of scripts to further make playing your games on Linux easier.
I think what many people really need to feel confident switching to linux is an expert who is willing to guide them through it and offer support.
I’m actively trying to do that, and it’s not working. All my normie friends are either ignoring the problem or planning on buying new pcs with win11
hey i’m trying to get my parents moved over to mint :)
Moved my mother a few days ago (LMDE). Printer too. Took about an hour.
Most of it was getting apps setup, moving pictures over, and making sure she was already logged into things like Facebook so she did not have to remember the passwords after I left.
Her biggest complaint has been that her friends email addresses do mot automatically pop-up in Thunderbird. They will once she has sent or received email from them. So this will pass.
I moved mine over about 2 years ago.
Only issue was getting the printer to work… Took a few hours.
The DIY install guide is a joke.
I mean, it is very “broad strokes” but correct. Ultimately though I don’t think their goal is to get people to just do it themselves. It seems like their bigger goal is connecting people in the community to people that want to make the switch to help smooth out the transition.
Just started the switch to fedora. It’s actually really good. I played minecraft with my spouse and after turning off mouse acceleration, it felt great. My favorite games are all on steam. Only things that are rough is professional software. Also, my $250 elgato capture card doesn’t support Linux. Windows is definitely going to need to stick around for me.
Also, my $250 elgato capture card doesn’t support Linux.
Which one? We use a few Elgato capture cards with OBS on Linux at work and all of them are bog-standard UVC video devices.
I played minecraft with my spouse
Check out Prism Launcher if you play Java Minecraft. It allows you to easily manage multiple Minecraft versions. Modded, unmodded, different versions, etc…
4k60
Prism is the best
I think you are right about the Elgato PCI-e models not working on Linux unfortunately.
In case you are ever in the market for a new capture card in the future:
99.9% of USB capture cards work out of the box. Alternatively, if it has to be PCI-e: Blackmagic provides first-class Linux drivers for their PCI-e cards.
We use some Blackmagic cards for larger projects and for the smaller ones we use Elgato USB capture cards.
That’s good to know. Hoping someone can figure it out. There’s someone who got the m.2 working supposedly. Might see if I can tinker with it.
You can’t install it on just any machine, rendering millions obsolete.
I tried switching a few days ago but the performance was so awful for some reason, ended up having to switch back (linux mint)
Sounds like something went wrong with the installation. Mint is overall more performant than windows. What slowed down?
I don’t know the terminology but it slowed down like how a video game slowed down, everything was super choppy as if it had decreased framerate
Mind if I ask some things? If you don’t want to try again, you can ignore this.
Did this happen while you were trying it out on the USB, or had the installation finished and you had removed the USB and restarted?
Were the nvidia d rivers installed in the driver manager? Was there any difference with the open source drivers?
Was secure boot disabled in your BIOS?
Was it a laptop or desktop? In case of laptop it might have been using battery saver mode. installing https://github.com/linrunner/TLP might have helped setting it up properly if you don’t want to handle it yourself.
What graphics card do you have? I can check if there are any compatibility issues, though there shouldn’t be unless it is decades old, in which case you might want to try out one of the more old hardware compatibility focused Linux distros.
Did this happen while you were trying it out on the USB, or had the installation finished and you had removed the USB and restarted?
After I had finished the installation and restarted
Were the nvidia d rivers installed in the driver manager? Was there any difference with the open source drivers?
I don’t know, I don’t use an Nvidia card
Was secure boot disabled in your BIOS?
Yes
Was it a laptop or desktop? In case of laptop it might have been using battery saver mode. installing https://github.com/linrunner/TLP might have helped setting it up properly if you don’t want to handle it yourself.
It’s a desktop PC
What graphics card do you have? I can check if there are any compatibility issues, though there shouldn’t be unless it is decades old, in which case you might want to try out one of the more old hardware compatibility focused Linux distros.
Intel Integrated Graphics 4000 (on a i7-3770 CPU)
(I’m still probably not going to try again for the time being, but I figured I’d answer your questions anyways)
I see. I remember there used to be issues with Intel GPUs on linux back 10-15 years ago, but it should work without issues today.
However, on Linux mint you do have to open the driver manager and select your proprietary graphics driver yourself or you end up with the open source one which is not always as performant (though more backwards compatible). It should have the Intel drivers in there too. In general, only the graphics drivers need to be installed by the user and everything else should be set automatically.
And in the case they were installed, rolling back to an earlier version of the driver might also improve it. It looks like Intel has stopped providing updates to the i7-3770 since a few years back, so a later Intel driver could be causing issues.
It should work without any choppiness in the OS itself, but it might take a bit more configuration than newer ones that generally just immediately work.
Similar with me, but Kubuntu. Installed Steam and started downloading some games, and the whole system became almost unusable until it had finished. Also I put some music on (YouTube), and the audio was slightly slowing down and speeding up.
I have used Linux for decades for servers, and I really want to move to Desktop Linux, but at least once a year I try and there is some major issue that stops me.
Windows stopped at 7.
10 is perfectly great, 7 was not bad at all.
10 is perfectly great
Nope.
Ok
Linux is very user friendly. Windows 11 with debloat is also a good option. Not worth sticking to windows if they won’t be using any microsoft specific development tools like visual studio or be playing heavy games. A casual gamer won’t be troubled on Linux.
Good luck, you’re going to need it.
