Do not split.
But what is happening in Hong Kong is they come up with a slogan, which is translated as Do Not Split, which is, we know that some people are willing to be confrontational with riot police.
And when they are, that’s going to cost the state in terms of not only resources, but it’s going to cost the state in terms of political capital and support. And we know that there are some people who are not willing to do that. And we are going to abide by the protocol of Do Not Split, which means that we’re not going to criticize them openly, and they’re not going to criticize us openly.
If we’re the pacifists, we’re not going to have them criticize us for being sort of like, I don’t know, limpid or flaccid or not courageous or whatever. And we’re not going to criticize them for being more confrontational. And the thing is that the support is also tacit.
Non-violent protests and their leaders are heralded by the establishment for a reason. They want non-violent protests because it’s an outlet that doesn’t actually affect their power. Martin Luther King gets credit for civil rights but really the rioting and violence on the periphery of that movement is what scared the powerful into bargaining. Symbols can be useful for rallying people, but in the end, it’s always direct action against the interest of the powerful that works. Large scale general strikes, riots, and political killings have always been the catalyst of major change.
Also, even if all that happened in the US, we still need some kind of leadership to pick up the pieces that will actually do something lasting to change things. The Democrats certainly aren’t that.
non violent protests only go so far, they would be scared if magats are also doing it, because how trigger finger they are. i think the strike that was truley effective, is the one they quashed, the railroad workers, the us is entirely dependant on this. Having these tiny protests, comparetively to what EUROPEans are doing.
And nothing changed.
Fascists do not care about protests. Never have. Never will.
Fascists also don’t allow fair elections if they can prevent them.
This is why it was so important for Americans to pull their heads out of their asses and make the obvious choice in November, instead of giving total control to fascists, making it WAY more likely for the next election to be fraudulent. Americans failed.
I’m going to let everyone reading this come to the obvious conclusion for what will end up needing to be done at this point.
I’m gonna guess violent revolution with a side of political cleansing?
With entrenched long-term resistance against the occupying force.
And I got chastised for insulting people who are intolerant, both to tankies and fascists. These bullies only understand and respond to force. Give them what they want and they will wish to have stopped.
I think it’s still Trump’s conspiracy
- Trump and his goons are traitors
- A corporate takeover of the US has been planned for a long time
- We will not vote our way out of this
We will not vote our way out of this
Nope. That option disappeared on November 5, 2024.
You cannot allow fascists to have total control of a government and then expect to vote your way back to normality.
Lots of people are going to have to die to end this. And we’ll probably go through a prolonged period of a decline of our quality of life before that happens. Then a prolonged period of recovery. And it could have easily been avoided if Americans had pulled their heads out of their asses and rubbed a couple brain cells together.
Buckle up kids.
Agreed, but this has been brewing for over 18 years. Today’s MAGA were yesteryear’s Tea Party members. They liked to wear funny “patriotic” hats and discuss conspiracy theory level politics. Easily guided and basically brainless, if you hold up a picture of a liberal they would run at it screaming profanities like some weird carrot on a stick. They ALMOST destroyed the Republican party with that craziness … but the party just steered into it and now rides the wave.
It disappeared before 2024.
There has been a massive, multi-pronged assault on just our rights and our values, but our very attention-spans and cognitive capabilities to resist the corporate takeover.
Do ya’ll really think that they’re collecting your personal data to sell you targeted products you want?
They want to know what everyone’s limits are, they want to know how much you pay attention, they want to know how much discomfort you will endure before you get mad, they want to know what placates you, they want to know what makes you feel good and comfortable so they can distill whatever that is and turn it into concentrated slop to keep you in your chair.
This isn’t conspiracy, this is the same thing that’s been to other countries by dictators and oligarchs in the past, usually with things like alcohol or drugs, but the modern world in America is much more complicated so they need a lot of people to click “agree” so they can find out what your weaknesses really are.
A lot of people’s limits are pretty much already reached. Some of us are old, tired, and just not that interested in keeping the greed machine running.
Your average Joe may not grab a rifle and run at the illegal National Guards that have been deployed or do a Luigi… but if those average Joe’s happen to see someone else do somwthing like that it will be good odds that they won’t remember what the person looked like or which way they ran after they did it.
Traitors and child fuckers.
child rapists. FIFY
1 and 2 completely agree, but 3 is quitter talk. We don’t need any of that.
It’s not quitter talk. It is opening a discussion for a workaround.
Who said anything about quitting?
Pick up a history book.
You don’t vote fascists out.
To be fair, we did vote him out once before.
However, I doubt they’ll allow it to happen again.
that was due to a fluke and technicality, that is covid.
The last three elections had the highest voter turnout in recorded American history. This isn’t a voting problem anymore, because our voting system, our very democratic process, has been compromised with social manipulation and leveraged against us.
We will not rush the polls and fix this.
We don’t necessarily need to do an armed insurrection to fix this, but we have to get a LOT more active and a LOT more involved in our local leadership and representation, we have to argue a LOT more with our shitty uncle who gets all his news from Newsmax and nobody ever pushes back on him. We have to fight ICE in the streets and post it to social media and make resistance cool. We have to stop buying shit. Not a dumbass protest against a single company or product, just start saving your damn money and stop wasting it on games and booze and drugs. Seriously, take the money OUT of their hands. Start getting healthy, active and smart.
It will take generations to fix this, but it starts now with you getting up and walking somewhere and telling a total stranger “I can’t believe how much we pay in taxes and they couldn’t lower the price of groceries!” No wokescolding, no lectures, just do everything you can to make people mad at the actual enemy, the corporations and the wealthy.
edit: to the three people triggered by the idea that we can’t get out of this just by voting and telling people their shirts are problematic, you are the problem. You are ammunition for the orcs and monsters who have sabotaged us all. Get your priorities in order. Get off discord and get away from your polycule of shut-ins and ass-kissing introverts and get fucking busy. Phone-bank, march, throw a sandwich at an ICE agent, just stop thinking you can intellectualize your way out of this. Nobody is coming. This is on YOU.
just start saving your damn money and stop wasting it on games and booze and drugs
No
You’re going to lose porn if you don’t get serious. Make a choice.
If history has taught us anything, it’s that the porn always wins.
Trying to fight apathy here is like swimming against a current of pure laziness and despair.
Ya’ll need to take some walks and eat a salad.
And yet it seemed to change nothing
Good for the USA.
They had a moment, made funny signs, took some pictures, felt good about themselves.
Now Trump is rolling a military buildup in the country’s capitol. We all know how this is going to end.
Good job. Pat yourselves on the back. You achieved fucking nothing.
If the protests were pointless, then why would trump bother to build up the military in cities? Seems to me that the military buildup is to discourage more protests, because they are not pointless.
Was he not going to do that anyway?
This is the stupidest take.
If anything, you’re arguing that the protests accomplished none of the goals of the protestors, and only managed to escalate and incite a response that was a “warning” that worse will come if we don’t keep it up.
So… it still seems fucking pointless to me? Like for fucks sake, we’re all just waiting for him to die of natural causes and hope that the coalition falls apart, doing a whole bunch of pointless shit until then because we all know that violence is the only way to remove him at this point.
Naive fucks. The people who support him are just as committed to keeping power.
Glad someone else is saying it.
No Kings was a joke.
Assuming one day of protest is the complete picture is what is comical. The Montgomery bus boycott started in 1955. The Civil Rights Act signed in 1965. One day is just part of the overall story of history. And having the largest protest be against Trump is part of our history now. It will take much more for that be a good story, but it is a good sign.
You don’t have 10 years to work this out. Particularly when every media company is capitulating in advance. No Kings was not part of some ongoing movement. It was a weekend and it was as far as Americans are willing to go.
This take makes no sense. One of the largest days of protests in US history is a joke to you? It’s a fundamental right of the citizens to protest and exercise this right.
Sure. And it accomplished nothing- if anything, it emboldened the far right who now know that they can accelerate their plans and AT BEST only be met with a “peaceful protest” on a Saturday (if the weather’s nice).
Meanwhile, while No Kings was happening, 4 members of democratic leadership were shot in their homes. They were racking up a body count while “the resistance” was congratulating itself for going outside and holding a sign on a weekend.
Even if a movement went all “blood and violence” it wouldn’t be done in a day. What makes you so certain that something is useless just because it doesn’t immediately solve everything?
Are you implying that what happened at No Kings was, if not escalating, even ONGOING?
Lemmy Canadians have a real problem when it comes to being completely self centered assholes.
You aren’t that far removed from U.S. citizens and your shit stinks too.
We’ve been friends with the US for years.
Then they hired a felon, pedophile, rapist to shit in our poutine.
I’m perfectly fine being called a self centred asshole for being mad about this and laughing as the USA eats it’s own head.
Have a nice day.
You aren’t that far removed from U.S. citizens and your shit stinks too.
- Canada gets most of its food from the U.S. . 2) Laughing at us means laughing at yourself, you’re now positioned squarely between the U.S. and Russia — and the U.S. definitely controls your southern border. Did I mention that the U.S. is where you get most of your food and that the U.S. has military dominance in the region? How many Canadians do you think will starve before any legitimate help arrives?
There are many emotions to be had about this, schadenfreude has to be the most intellectually devoid one. My, still very much a child, nephew could understand that.
Yes, getting defensive online is the best possible use of your energy right now.
Merely stating facts.
I went to an anti-genocide march that day and we were hoping to link up with the No Kings marchers and combine forces, but they went home early.
It’s good to see people politically animated, but these protests are largely ‘controlled opposition’. It’s an emergency venting valve where the people’s frustration is channeled into a meaningless whistle.
The whole system is rotted. The democrats are not fighting for the small folk at all. If anything, a branch of the party is probably relieved that the republicans moved the overton window so far right.
Real change will require actual upheaval. You can’t vote or protest your way out of this shit. Major civilian disobedience and unionizing is required across the board. There are some of us (working class) that are doing some unassuming maintenance in the orphan crushing machine. We won’t get anywhere as long as people are operating their evil cog as normal. These protests won’t do anything as long as it’s being directed through the democrat pressure valve, as it is built in as a safety device in the orphan crushing machine.
Major civilian disobedience and unionizing is required across the board.
The only way we get there is by getting people out of their houses, away from controlled media, and aware that they’re not alone. Without active, live, out-in-public protest, nobody will feel emboldened to take more radical action; they’ll feel like a lone actor and probably not even start. Civil action en-masse comes first.
No one disputes the need to get people in the street. I agree with you there.
My cautionary tale is that turning to democrats or other mainstream ““resistance”” is a trap meant to deflate popular morale.
Im not alone? Thank goodness, my rent is coming up in 19 days and its the vast majority of my income. Its gonna be nice to have help paying it.
Everyone had a good time, then went home and nothing was changed.
Because we’re still all under the delusion that we live in a civilized country with laws and fairness.
I think if people here had ever actually been in a fascist dictatorship before, those marches wouldn’t have ended with everyone going home and sharing pictures on social media, it would have ended with capitol buildings set ablaze and an embarrassed and disheveled president being dragged out to a military tribunal or locked in a jail cell until trial.
You know, the thing that actually happens in places where this has happened before.
Eventually the fascist will infiltrate and incite violence so they can move in and kill.
And when they do, they need to be met by the same violence. It takes an awful lot to fight fascism, and I wouldn’t wish it on anyone, but that is where USA is. Innocent people are going to die before it gets better.
While media attention is often focused on actors acquiescing to Trump’s demands, in the streets the popular protest movement continues to push back against the administration with notable persistence over time.
No lie, that’s some good news.
I hate reading the comments of all the capitulators here, carrying water for the regime by trying to discourage people with this constant drumbeat that protests are useless and ineffective. Bullshit. Are you magats? We’ve seen examples in history where protests and the movements they enabled have brought down those in power.
Protests are necessary but not sufficient in themselves. They’re how resistance starts and builds, not how it ends. Did you ever think it might take time to form the momentum to get to a critical mass, especially after decades of complacency? Real momentum and effective action was never going to happen immediately or in just weeks, or even in less than eight months which is where we are now. There are already people grouping and doing things other than protests (iykyk) and will be more, made possible by the support and cover that large numbers participating provide.
Troops are being moved into cities and they will keep being sent to more cities. Blue cities. There’s one reason for that–they want to intimidate people from turning out and use force to stop those who do. trump keeps saying so and plans are being implemented.
Point is, you may think it’s all useless and ineffective, but the regime obviously doesn’t. Why do you want to help them? If you think it’s hopeless, fine–stay home and doom scroll, but stop trying to dissuade others.
I agree. The negativity in this forum has utility beyond providing a stupid counterpoint. It also saturates attention and screenspace in long threads of people arguing nonsense. The goal is disruption, and in a space far from corporate control like Reddit, yet somewhat under-moderated, it’s alarmingly effective. At worst, there’s an acutual playbook for this exact thing.
Troops are being moved into cities and they will keep being sent to more cities.
Which is important. Make them want to cover every city in America. The problem for them is that they can’t. There aren’t enough regular troops, National Guard, and ICE agents put together to make it work. They’ll be spread too thin.
That really highlights the importance of protests. If it was just New York it would fail. If it was just Chicago it would fail. If it were just LA it would fail. If we signal that we’re all going to work together on this, they can’t possibly do it.
They think that going out and shooting Republicans will help. Because of course the ones with control over the military will be easily brought down by randos with guns.
Depends on the ones you are shooting. If you kill the 80 year old Republican who has barely any cash? No it won’t do shit. If you snipe Charlie Kirk or a senator, then yeah cause it breaks the illusion of their immunity.
Violence is a tool and much like any tool you need to know how to use it. Taking out the propaganda welps and the money movers would be a good first step. It’s also a lot harder to work against if done with variable tactics since asymmetrical warfare is a removed to work against.
Chill with the fedposting. You know you’re not actually anonymous here, right? You’re putting yourself at risk. People have had the FBI knocking on their door for less.
If done in a well-organized strategic manner, agreed! But somehow I don’t think that’s how it would go down.
You don’t have to be well-organized nor strategic. Being chaotic and uncaught often works. I listen a lot to Behind the Bastards and Lions Led by Donkeys. It has given me the impression that effectiveness of a given behavior is a horseshoe, where the ends of the shoe have greater impact than a balanced style.
uncaught
That word is doing a LOT of heavy lifting. But I agree. If only it were easy to do.
Surprisingly, it happens more often than one expects. Just listen to the podcasts I mentioned, all sorts of people, good and bad…usually the bad, get away with being weird in all the ways. Audacity is bit of a cheat code, because most people don’t want to disrupt their daily life. This cedes agency to people who do things.
Only need the organization level of a WW2 resistance cell or an IRA cell. Squad level is more than large enough to execute effective operations on a strategic level so long as said cells aren’t entirely singular, 5 cells each with 5 people for example even when working independently could probably bring a cities infrastructure to its knees let alone kill random politicians and their buddies.
Here’s hopin’!
I wish I could sticky this.
Trump could get overthrown tomorrow and Lemmy Europeans would find a way to removed about it
Damn those Europeans, always removed about Trump being overthrown. Well, he isn’t overthrown actually, instead he has more and more power by the day and Americans don’t do anything effective about it. And those pesky Europeans keep removed about things that happening instead of being happy about imaginary things that aren’t happening.
Is it Europeans? I thought the US left is way more puritanical than us
A ton of Europeans here hold the belief anything less than storming the street and shooting people isn’t a worthy way to protest in America and they will tell you as much.
Not really, personally I and a lot of Europeans hold the belief that in order for anything to be done you actually need to be doing those things. Sorry I can’t share your happiness about a bunch of people walking around the street that one time, while your child rapist in chief rapes both you and the rest of the world.
Don’t like criticism of your inaction, actually do something about it.Not really, personally I and a lot of Europeans hold the belief that in order for anything to be done you actually need to be doing those things.
Not just Europeans on this team. Watching from Canada and being told nothing can be done but a street march on a sunny Saturday while our own governing schmucks start instituting laws to appease and move our country toward fascism on the lead of the fuckers south of us, is god damn terrifying.
I won’t be silent about it either. About 'murica or Canada. 'muricuns are letting a fascist dictator control them and affect lots of others around the world. Canadians are allowing our PM to do the same just much slower and with more smiles and handshakes.
Okay, so how many people have you killed to advance your political position?
Yeah, probably. They’ve been suppressed for so long that they’re itching to use violent tactics when they don’t really understand how violence is a careful, strategic tool for the left.
Sweet, keep up brave Americans!
Good, and we will do it again and again!
I think that peaceful and defiant protest are the anvil and hammer of social reform. Without each other, it is hard to change society into a more useful shape. These two wings are part of the same animal, and only work if they cooperate.
The Black Panthers were great, because they created social programs like feeding schoolchildren, while offering physical protection to the people under their care. We need Rainbow Panthers to help support the MLKs and Malcoms of our day.
It’s important to note how the Black Panthers used “violence”. There were very few incidents where they actually fired their guns, and when they did, they were arguably baited into doing it by the FBI and local cops.
Their best tactic was just hanging around with an AK on their back while a cop did their racial profiling thing to somebody else. They’d keep a book of laws handy and give the person advice from the sidelines. If they didn’t have a gun, the cop would likely have found some pretext to arrest them and that’d be it. With a gun, the cop thinks twice and puts up with it. It wasn’t there to actually be fired, but to make sure everyone behaved themselves.
This was so effective they changed California’s open carry law to stop it. It’s estimated that there were only around 100 Black Panthers at the time.
That is why I use the word “defiance”. It is not violence, it is just a refusal to be bullied. We should put forth our own words to describe things, not let the media paint our movements in the light that they prefer.
