“Heavily influenced”
“understated”
“slightly modified”
MJ was heavily abused physically and mentally in his youth. Being raised as a Jehovah’s Witness fucks you up in a lot of ways so those of us from that era and background were never surprised at how he became a fucked up adult.
And to be clear, none of that excuses the things he did, but it does help explain how they came to be.
What’d he do tho? Because everything I’ve seen says he’s pretty much exonerated/ claims were false and coerced.
They don’t believe in birthdays or toys or gifts for Christmas. As far as I can tell all of their beliefs about children are centered around creating the most joyless upbringing possible.
That only just scratches the surface, mon ami. ANY celebration, except Passover, (which they refer to as the Memorial) is evil and to be rejected. On top of that, the JWs underwent a major shift around 1975. Internal discipline was ramped way up and overall the religion went to a “Armageddon is coming any day” footing. Children as young as 3 were told that the End was coming soon, and it could happen next month, next week, tomorrow, or an hour from now, and if they weren’t obeying the teachings of the faith that they would die in a fiery apocalypse
This message was repeated to them multiple times a day, with parents being told that they would be held responsible for their children as well. If child was found unworthy of survival at Armageddon, so would they.
Every single waking moment was viewed as a moment to demonstrate faithfulness to the teachings of the Governing Body, every single opportunity to attempt to bring in new worshippers had to be taken. If not, you risked death.
And this is without mentioning that all JWs were expected to have as few contacts with non-believers as possible, except when preaching to them. No friends outside the faith. No relationships on any level with anyone who wasn’t a believer. From the oldest down to the babies, you were supposed to have only absolutely necessary contact with those who weren’t JWs.
There was one girl in my class that was Jehovah’s witness when I was little. Every time we would have a class party she would have to go sit in the corner and just watch us all stuffing our faces with sugar and having fun.
Bob Fosse has been insanely influential on pop culture in general.
Even that scene in The Birdcage!
Which one?
Hunh. YT’s gettin’ ornery w/ its trace tails —on first glance, I thought that link ended with “?t=65&is=FuckOff” 🤣
It’s not; I put that there purposely.
Wait, can you make it say anything after the ? mark?
It probably still works as a tracker anyway connecting people that opened with that string. The only difference being that the creator of the link isn’t known.
Yep!
Why isn’t it checking your filesystem though?
I mean, all of them, really. 😋 Specifically, though? Yeah, that one 👇🏼 😉
The movie Sweet Charity is a great reference.
Sweet Charity was one of the most formative movies in my childhood. For me.
Barbara Bouchet and Suzanne Charny will do that I suppose.
MJ: “you know, I’m something of a snake in the grass myself”
Considering the thematic overlaps between said character portrayed and MJ’s off-stage history IRL… 🥲
Are you implying that Michael Jackson was a pedophile? Because that has been pretty much proven to be completely false. Like with overwhelming absence of evidence.
If such things as truth and justice matter to you at all of course. Maybe you said this just for the lulz.
I saw this meme pop up on reddit, and it’s reposted here and follows the same disgusting trajectory here. “Oh look MJ stole!” No he didn’t, he credited Bob Fosse who admired MJ for being an amazing dancer and perfecting this style.
“Oh look it’s a snake and a child, get it? get it?” - no he was innocent and framed by the media and racist prosecutors and people seeking money.
I’m so sick how stupid evil will always triumph over justice and truth because it is so relentless and “so yummy” and “fun” to spew this shit. People have learned nothing today from OP except reinforcing the lies.
Hmm, all MJ moves weren’t his. Its like all his moves are from just this movie.
I mean, yes and no. You can see all the iconic MJ moves in Bob Fosse’s performance here, but they’re not quite the same. As well, Bob Fosse, as far as I know and I honestly don’t know anything beyond this clip and I can’t be bothered to look it up, wasn’t also a singer and songwriter.
As well, there is rarely ever an original form of art - every great artist has either copied or stolen from someone else.
Terry Pratchett, an author that I greatly respect and admire, straight up stole/paid homage to all kinds of pop culture movies and science and quotes - he dressed up those stories and made them his own.
Rap artists off all kinds will steal bars and hooks from one another all the time.
I guess my point is, at what point is it paying homage to something and at what point is it stealing? If someone truly made something original it would likely be rejected for being so obscure as to be offensive to “good taste.”
Isn’t the whole point of Terry Prachett’s works to create witty and endearing satire? I always read his books as him looking at our world and reality through the perspective of a very intelligent, childlike mind, that questions and rejects our world as for being nonensical and through Discworld, he makes a world that makes a lot more sense even if it appears absolutely bonkers. To Discworld, we are the weirdos. That is what I really enjoyed about his books. He forces you to think about the absurdity of our reality by asking frankly ridiculous questions and then through his clever storytelling and social and political commentary, he always manages to deliver a well thought out point that makes you appreciate all kinds of facettes of life.
In the case of Terry Prachett, the theft of ideas is the entire point and not a natural bi product of being a creative.
That is the best description of the Discworld books that I have ever read. How you describe it was “clear” to me for 20 years now, but I could have never stated this fact as eloquently as you did here.
Thank you, friend xD i am a bit surprised because i was a very sleepy bish when i wrote my comment and felt like i was writing word salad, but went “fuck it. This is as good as it gets. Post!”
Glad my comment was more coherent than i thought and that it resonated with a fellow Terry Prachett-appreciater! <3
As well, there is rarely ever an original form of art
Please reread what you wrote.
from the first arranging of some feathers, or charcoal finger strokes in some cave a hundred thousand years ago, EVERY new thing, color, stroke, note arrangement, word composition, has been original. Some of these, of course, have been used as a basis or inspiration, or part of newer artistic expressions. Often, it’s nature that provides the inspiration. La Sagrada Familia cathedral is inspired by these stalagmites children (and some adults) make by dropping watery sand down a mound, for example.
It’s like saying that when some hominin drew a circle in the sand, and another who saw him drew a square, the second one copied him. Well, you could say the 2nd copied the moving finger in the sand, but it fucking invented the square. Yeah, I know, Pyrite et Al. would like a word.
Michael Jackson literally cloned these moves and style. Almost 100%.
Although there is a fine (blurry?) line between inspiration and imitation, MJ was waaaay inside the imitation demarcation.
Give a different concept to Smooth Criminal if you wantch the scene in its entirety from the movie.
Stealing a bar, or a concept, or a sample, all are really normal, as they’re transforming the art. They’re meant to help you remember the old piece with a little nostalgia.
He took 100% of the choreography here from a movie that was hardly seen in the US. This is not to say he wasn’t talented at it. But you throw that together with a moonwalk and a few other pieces and you have 100% of his stage presence.
Rather than seeing it as “copying,” Fosse viewed Jackson’s work as the natural evolution of dance and praised Jackson’s precision and talent. In Sam Wasson’s biography Fosse, the legendary choreographer praised Jackson’s movement: “He’s one of the greatest dancers I’ve ever seen… maybe since Astaire, because he’s so fast… and because when he extends his arm or his leg or whatever, it goes completely out and then right back. Not half out, not one quarter, not nine tenths. It goes completely out and then right back—fast. But it’s complete. Every action is complete.”
The respect was mutual. Jackson openly acknowledged Fosse as a major inspiration and personally met with him, telling Fosse, “You’ve changed the face of dance. You’ve been an inspiration to me.”
Don’t know what you’re talking about, Shakespeare wrote the first story about two people falling in love. That not ending well, also Shakespeare original.
I cant tell if you’re joking or just wrong.Clearly you’re joking, and I’m just too sleepy to pick up on the sarcasm.
What a Greek tragedy! 🙃
Also, a Shakespeare invention!.
Badum chi 🥁
You sound confident, but no…
“Not quite the same” is frankly, respectfully, a semantic bullshit position here. All of what Jackson did was 99.7% the spirit of this Fosse performance. Period.
Further your point about rap is off as well because they don’t “steal”, they sample - meaning they license the use with legal permission OR they pay in court after the fact. It’s listed in the liner notes and credit is given directly, unlike with Jackson and Fosse as I’d never once heard or read this growing up.
So again, you sound confident, while being very wrong.
Thats so fucking cool!!!
Wonder where Bob Fosse got it? A combination of previous performers or something completely original, which is rare.
Fred Astaire, probably.
I’d put some money on Jim Crow. Look up some of the symbolism Childish Gambino used in This is America.
Bob Fosse was amazing, I am sure it was original with him.
Cool find!
professorchangsquinting.gif
version with music?
Stolen by a smooth criminal
seeing the original compared to the 30s highlight, I understand the saying: " great artist steal": MJ took 5 move in a whole 2min routine, and stole them. Another artist would have just copied the whole routine. I would never think about choosing those 5 moves seeing the movie. I wouldnt realise they were the best moves. It took a MJ to get them and make them pop
Same argument for sampling vinyl.
thanks, was much more fun.
Wait is the little prince popular in US too?
Not realy.
I never heard of it til I watched the 2015 animated movie. Was decent iirc.
I didn’t hear of it until there was an event in Sky Children of the Light.
interesting. i misread that and thought you were referencing Child of Light, it has one of my favorite all time songs on the soundtrack - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsvAyEyi9Fg
Generally, only when one is in middle school and learning French, IME. 😅
No, not at all
I used to watch a cartoon as a kid in the late 80s, in the US. This moon is far bigger than on the show.
Cue the pedophile threadjack.
Was he ever convicted of anything?
No. On the other hand, you don’t pay $15 to $25 million for no reason.
Well, one reason might be that he’s had enough of being dragged through the courts?
Ok. You don’t get dragged through the courts for no reason.
Of course you do!
For example: Kevin Spacey was accused of A LOT of heinous shit and in at least one case the charges were so ridiculous that HE got awarded recompense by the court.
Then you have THIS. Just in 2010s you have 28 cases of people wrongfully convicted (convicted - they went to prison while being innocent)!
Pretty sure Spacey is also guilty.
He was deemed not guilty in every single court case that wasn’t thrown out, and the majority of the cases were thrown out.
Considering Bill Cosby and Harvey Weinstein were convicted at roughly the same time, and how both of them had much higher wealth/influence than Spacey, there’s a high chance that Spacey is actually innocent if he went free.
Yup, no innocent person has ever been to court.
Big difference here. MJ paid NOT to go to court.
No innocent person has ever not wanted to go to court, due to the fear of miscarriage of justice or the perception of people like Knock_knock_Lemmy_in.
We was not. And he’s been defended by some of the kids too.
Every time that happens I’m reminded of the saying, “You can’t reason someone out of a position they didn’t reason themselves into”.
Yeah, reason didn’t get you here, reason won’t get you out.
Creepy as fuck pedophile snake man and the little prince. Definitely something MJ would re-enact with his child brides.
Mj was married to a child? Elaborate please
He had multiple mock wedding ceremonies where he married children as young as 9. I watched a documentary and the boy had the ring and pictures to prove it. I think Michael bought the parents a house.
Which movie. I’m very interested. I always figured he was just stuck in a childs mindset and didn’t mean harm to other kids, just wanted friends his age. So I’d really like to see this movie.
I am not sure the exact one since I watched several, but my wife says it was probably Leaving Neverland.
I found a 2 part mini series called leaving neverland, the thumbnail looks like what you’re describing. Gonna download it
Just curious; why are you abusing Bob Fosse of being a paedophile?
Creepy scene, maybe it was purely artistic.
And no, I am not abusing Bob Fosse. I don’t even know the guy.
I did just watch a couple of his other choreographies though. I think the style is interesting for sure.
Since you brought it up though it looks like he was a prolific sexual assaulter and was exposed to sex and likely molested at a young age.
A womaniser who has extramarital affairs, sure… However, calling someone a prolific assaulter or a paedophile would need to be backed up by some kind of evidence. You’re spreading ill words about a man who is not longer alive and able to defend himself. That’s just as bad, or even worse than doing it to someone who is alive. Please think over things before you post.
I looked it up, go troll someone else defender of rapists and paedophiles.
Who’s doing the trolling? I’m not gonna let people throw around accusations unanswered. If you only have bile to contribute, spew it out in the gutter where it belongs.
You are full of shit for sure, did you research it? Fuck no. I did. You are wrong and should stop defending garbage people.
Edit:
https://www.moveyourstory.org/blog/2018/2/10/fossemetoo
https://hebontheweb.blog/2019/05/11/bob-fosse-victim-and-perpetrator-of-sexual-assault/
Where is the evidence of the paedophilia you have tripled down on?
Your first link details his history of sexually abusing adult women. Unacceptable, but doesn’t support your claim.
Your second link is mostly about him being a victim of rape himself, which is a strange inclusion.
This research smells of a presupposed conclusion.
Bob Fosse should’ve faced the justice system for his abuse of adult women. But you have shown nothing that indicates he would be charged for anything sexual with a minor.
