To be perfectly honest, I’m worried about what the US will do once their political capital weekens more internationally while they sit on the 130 odd military bases abroad in 55 foreign potentially ‘hostile’ (to US interests) territories (if they don’t eat their own first ofc). Public trust has already embraced it’s fundamentally rotten core and rightfully so. The social contract is in shreds between the government and it’s people. Something will crumple and it will be ugly. I don’t think Kamala is much of an answer either, but at least it may buy time for circumstances to change. Americans have to learn to live with each other, one way or another.
Americans have to learn to live with each other, one way or another.
Honestly, I often think Americans need to learn to live apart from each other these days. I’m very skeptical of the notion that the US can ever function as a coherent political unit again, and it might be better for all to just cut bait and move to an EU-esque free movement regime. Let New England, the South, the Midwest, the West Coast and whatever Alaska and Hawaii want to be each be their own independent countries, but any citizen of one has the right to move to any if the others and work immediately. If Republicans want to enact their own little Handmaid’s Tales in the deep South, they can go for it, but no moaning when women and POC decide to move elsewhere. The non-GOP hellscape regions can implement social safety net programs to allow anyone who wants to leave the conservative regions to do so, regardless of financial means, knowing they will have housing, food and healthcare when they get to a civilized country.
It really feels like some backwards regions are holding the whole country hostage at this point.
a surprisingly tiny minority of cities and states make up the overwhelming lionshare of fiscal solvency and standard of living that this country enjoys and balkanizing it would leave them all DEEPLY impoverished nations except one or two.
for those impoverished nations; the politically easiest path to solvency is to invade and occupy its neighbors or descend further into facism.
those one or two rich countries would then also then be in a position to invade and colonize their neighbors for more natural resources as rich countries with sufficient access to poor countries invariably do.
poc aren’t leaving red states that publicly and actively disenfranchise them because they’re stuck there and a country formed by balkanization won’t be any different. white people are mostly the ones that enjoy that sort of fiscal mobility, so there’s a chance that white women could move, but not any other kind of woman; and probably into that one or two rich countries in the case of balkanization.
balkanization can only work if there’s something to glue the people together like a culture and all of the cultures in the united states belong to minority groups thanks to the majority eschewing their own originating cultures in favor of an american identity for a myriad of reasons.
Ha, we in Acela-stan will be fine United by our high (ish) speed profitable national railway with all those nearby third world countries to exploit. After we set up tinpot dictators and plantations, californiastan will have no chance!
the people’s republic of california was one of those mega rich countries i was referring to; it can literally hold its own against other established global north countries like the uk or france by itself today and would absolutely dominate a balkanized united states
acela-stan doesn’t stand a chance against the PRC, but it’s neighbor, estados unidos de neuva york, does. it’s still a 3:1 comparison; but it’s much more fair than acela-stan’s 6:1. the holy texan empire (aka jesus land) would be the closest rival to the PRC, but it’s a very distant second at 2:1 comparison to the PRC.
all of the countries between these three mega rich countries would turn into vassals states or conflict proxies between each other; as rich countries have want to do; and both canada and mexico are in danger of getting sucked in too if california, as we know it today, is in play.
Not a chance. Our national high(ish) speed railroad will hold our states together from the hub of the universe to Nueva York, through Libertydelphia and and down to DC. We have feeder lines out to frontier towns like Albany, out to Pennsyltucky, up north to the provinces, and spreading out through Virginia to stagecoach hubs in the plantation colonies. The railroad built the US before and it can do the same now
We have the civilization, the money, the population. We don’t even need an imagination but can build our wealth through exploiting our colonies next door just like our ancestors did. Our GDP is instantly the worlds third largest economy, leaving the PRC as a distant fifth
I’m especially excited over the profit to be made as the Rust Republic tries to come alive. They need to rebuild the waterways and railroads that facilitated their rise a century ago but this time they’ll have the entire global supply chain to compete with and no one to protect them. They’ll need our money so we’ll have so much opportunity to get rich. I’ll get in early with investing in a rebirth of the Pinkertons. The Rust Republic will no longer be able to afford to give their labor so many benefits, living wages, guarantees, workplaces safety. We’ll make so much money paying almost nothing to get a bunch of Rednecks to beat the unions out of existence
Republican of California has no chance, no downtrodden population to exploit, not tinpot dictators to install over nothing. And they’ll be too busy trying to steal all the remaining water resources to keep properly exploit other resources
there’s no single cultural identity that unifies the people in the east coast megapolis besides being american and they don’t even vote the same way now so they can’t even agree on what that means today; unlike the californians.
but yes, they would dominate if you figure out how to socially glue them together somehow. the california megapolis, on the other hand, already have those things that suggests a strong cultural identity to such a degree that they have a collective nickname for californians who don’t tow the groupthink line: “little texas”. (the nickname is so pervasive that several past governors had used it). in the case of balkinization; the california megapolis is already primed and ready to go it alone whereas you’ll need time, effort and patience to create acela-stan and you also have to hope that none of the other countries somehow don’t interfere for generations while that’s happening. history proves that rich countries always interfere and neuva york alone will both be significantly richer during balkanization and already has a stronger cohesive cultural identity than that of the rest of the east coast megapolis. i would expect they will take efforts to make sure acela-stan never comes into existence as history has also proven that rich countries always do when faced w potential competitor.
You’ll still need respect for that to happen, which is what I’m referring to by “living together.” Don’t have to be friends, but you got to compromise somewhere.
Not with intolerance. Defend humanity, whatever the cost may be. We shall fight in the press, we shall fight on the schoolgrounds, we shall fight in the workplace and in the streets, we shall fight in the churches; we shall never surrender.
And if this draws new borders, let them be drawn; and let our taxes NOT support those who do not uphold common areligious decency and uphold universal care as a goal. Let those who support despot idols die of the classic diseases and impairments of the dark ages they aspire to re-create.
Let their ‘south’ rise again in gun deaths, suicides, teen pregnancies, scandals, hate; just do it on their own – and look to buy states into the new american union when they falter, empty, and sue to secede so they can follow their inhabitants in.
So this is what Vulcanization is? Are you weirdly worked up about this topic?
Like all these people were happily Yugoslavs and somebody fueled the** different nationalisms** in them to break them up? How does this** compare even remotely** to the American situation?
In America you have several states that oppress their own people because they stand fundamentally against constitutional democracy, freedom of religion, abolition of slavery, gender equality, climate science, endocrinology, …add here whatever the average christofascist hates in order to feel righteous and murderous.
In that they explicitly want to undo modernity and bring society back to the Dark Ages, they are basically the equivalent of the Islamic State in every aspect, except for the flavor of Abrahamic OS they run on their state apparatus.
So instead of telling normal people (leftists, scientists, muslims, gay, trans, intersex) to tolerate those weird freaks, why don’t you go preach to oppressed Arab populations to find some common ground with ISIS, and GTFO ?
Vulcanization is a chemical process of rubber by treating it with sulfur. You have no clue what you are talking about and it is obvious. You want to call me worked up?
How about you stop getting so worked up trying to be morally righteous, fighting ghosts of your own creation and “GTFO” with your fallacious assumptions misrepresenting my argument.
None ever said that we have to tolerate fascists.
Did you just not fucking read the top comment in this thread by shikotohno, that specifically said to rely on BALKANIZATION, the process of a country breaking up into smaller, often hostile, independent units typically due to economic, religious, or geopolitical interests, to solve the political strife within the country, or are you just daft?
The strat isn’t to give up and acquiesce to letting them have their own playground to perpetuate their oppression, just because it isn’t happening in your backyard, at the cost of sacrificing hundreds of thousands of innocent people trapped within the regions. You can’t “Deprogram the Trump Cult victims and rehabilitate them into the decent society” if you give the Trump cult their own independent region.
To be perfectly honest, I’m worried about what the US will do once their political capital weekens more internationally while they sit on the 130 odd military bases abroad in 55 foreign potentially ‘hostile’ (to US interests) territories (if they don’t eat their own first ofc). Public trust has already embraced it’s fundamentally rotten core and rightfully so. The social contract is in shreds between the government and it’s people. Something will crumple and it will be ugly. I don’t think Kamala is much of an answer either, but at least it may buy time for circumstances to change. Americans have to learn to live with each other, one way or another.
Imagine giving this advice to anti-Hitler Germans around 1939 or so.
Don’t worry, we won’t have to learn to live with our fellow Americans that long if we lose. You all will though
Honestly, I often think Americans need to learn to live apart from each other these days. I’m very skeptical of the notion that the US can ever function as a coherent political unit again, and it might be better for all to just cut bait and move to an EU-esque free movement regime. Let New England, the South, the Midwest, the West Coast and whatever Alaska and Hawaii want to be each be their own independent countries, but any citizen of one has the right to move to any if the others and work immediately. If Republicans want to enact their own little Handmaid’s Tales in the deep South, they can go for it, but no moaning when women and POC decide to move elsewhere. The non-GOP hellscape regions can implement social safety net programs to allow anyone who wants to leave the conservative regions to do so, regardless of financial means, knowing they will have housing, food and healthcare when they get to a civilized country.
It really feels like some backwards regions are holding the whole country hostage at this point.
a surprisingly tiny minority of cities and states make up the overwhelming lionshare of fiscal solvency and standard of living that this country enjoys and balkanizing it would leave them all DEEPLY impoverished nations except one or two.
for those impoverished nations; the politically easiest path to solvency is to invade and occupy its neighbors or descend further into facism.
those one or two rich countries would then also then be in a position to invade and colonize their neighbors for more natural resources as rich countries with sufficient access to poor countries invariably do.
poc aren’t leaving red states that publicly and actively disenfranchise them because they’re stuck there and a country formed by balkanization won’t be any different. white people are mostly the ones that enjoy that sort of fiscal mobility, so there’s a chance that white women could move, but not any other kind of woman; and probably into that one or two rich countries in the case of balkanization.
balkanization can only work if there’s something to glue the people together like a culture and all of the cultures in the united states belong to minority groups thanks to the majority eschewing their own originating cultures in favor of an american identity for a myriad of reasons.
Ha, we in Acela-stan will be fine United by our high (ish) speed profitable national railway with all those nearby third world countries to exploit. After we set up tinpot dictators and plantations, californiastan will have no chance!
the people’s republic of california was one of those mega rich countries i was referring to; it can literally hold its own against other established global north countries like the uk or france by itself today and would absolutely dominate a balkanized united states
acela-stan doesn’t stand a chance against the PRC, but it’s neighbor, estados unidos de neuva york, does. it’s still a 3:1 comparison; but it’s much more fair than acela-stan’s 6:1. the holy texan empire (aka jesus land) would be the closest rival to the PRC, but it’s a very distant second at 2:1 comparison to the PRC.
all of the countries between these three mega rich countries would turn into vassals states or conflict proxies between each other; as rich countries have want to do; and both canada and mexico are in danger of getting sucked in too if california, as we know it today, is in play.
Not a chance. Our national high(ish) speed railroad will hold our states together from the hub of the universe to Nueva York, through Libertydelphia and and down to DC. We have feeder lines out to frontier towns like Albany, out to Pennsyltucky, up north to the provinces, and spreading out through Virginia to stagecoach hubs in the plantation colonies. The railroad built the US before and it can do the same now
We have the civilization, the money, the population. We don’t even need an imagination but can build our wealth through exploiting our colonies next door just like our ancestors did. Our GDP is instantly the worlds third largest economy, leaving the PRC as a distant fifth
I’m especially excited over the profit to be made as the Rust Republic tries to come alive. They need to rebuild the waterways and railroads that facilitated their rise a century ago but this time they’ll have the entire global supply chain to compete with and no one to protect them. They’ll need our money so we’ll have so much opportunity to get rich. I’ll get in early with investing in a rebirth of the Pinkertons. The Rust Republic will no longer be able to afford to give their labor so many benefits, living wages, guarantees, workplaces safety. We’ll make so much money paying almost nothing to get a bunch of Rednecks to beat the unions out of existence
Republican of California has no chance, no downtrodden population to exploit, not tinpot dictators to install over nothing. And they’ll be too busy trying to steal all the remaining water resources to keep properly exploit other resources
there’s no single cultural identity that unifies the people in the east coast megapolis besides being american and they don’t even vote the same way now so they can’t even agree on what that means today; unlike the californians.
but yes, they would dominate if you figure out how to socially glue them together somehow. the california megapolis, on the other hand, already have those things that suggests a strong cultural identity to such a degree that they have a collective nickname for californians who don’t tow the groupthink line: “little texas”. (the nickname is so pervasive that several past governors had used it). in the case of balkinization; the california megapolis is already primed and ready to go it alone whereas you’ll need time, effort and patience to create acela-stan and you also have to hope that none of the other countries somehow don’t interfere for generations while that’s happening. history proves that rich countries always interfere and neuva york alone will both be significantly richer during balkanization and already has a stronger cohesive cultural identity than that of the rest of the east coast megapolis. i would expect they will take efforts to make sure acela-stan never comes into existence as history has also proven that rich countries always do when faced w potential competitor.
Lemmycoin? Lol
It’s lemmy gold! I kinda like this one better but his beard is a little confusing if you don’t compare it to an actual picture of him.
You’ll still need respect for that to happen, which is what I’m referring to by “living together.” Don’t have to be friends, but you got to compromise somewhere.
Not with intolerance. Defend humanity, whatever the cost may be. We shall fight in the press, we shall fight on the schoolgrounds, we shall fight in the workplace and in the streets, we shall fight in the churches; we shall never surrender.
And if this draws new borders, let them be drawn; and let our taxes NOT support those who do not uphold common areligious decency and uphold universal care as a goal. Let those who support despot idols die of the classic diseases and impairments of the dark ages they aspire to re-create.
Let their ‘south’ rise again in gun deaths, suicides, teen pregnancies, scandals, hate; just do it on their own – and look to buy states into the new american union when they falter, empty, and sue to secede so they can follow their inhabitants in.
Ah yes, the Balkanization strategy. Cause that worked out so well the last time.
Some call it Vulcanization, others call it Deprogramming the Trump Cult victims and rehabilitate them into the decent society, if possible.
What? Do you even know what Balkanization is?
What does the breaking up of a larger nation into multiple independent, hostile territories have to do with changing people’s political ideologies?
So this is what Vulcanization is? Are you weirdly worked up about this topic?
Like all these people were happily Yugoslavs and somebody fueled the** different nationalisms** in them to break them up? How does this** compare even remotely** to the American situation?
In America you have several states that oppress their own people because they stand fundamentally against constitutional democracy, freedom of religion, abolition of slavery, gender equality, climate science, endocrinology, …add here whatever the average christofascist hates in order to feel righteous and murderous.
In that they explicitly want to undo modernity and bring society back to the Dark Ages, they are basically the equivalent of the Islamic State in every aspect, except for the flavor of Abrahamic OS they run on their state apparatus.
So instead of telling normal people (leftists, scientists, muslims, gay, trans, intersex) to tolerate those weird freaks, why don’t you go preach to oppressed Arab populations to find some common ground with ISIS, and GTFO ?
Vulcanization is a chemical process of rubber by treating it with sulfur. You have no clue what you are talking about and it is obvious. You want to call me worked up?
How about you stop getting so worked up trying to be morally righteous, fighting ghosts of your own creation and “GTFO” with your fallacious assumptions misrepresenting my argument. None ever said that we have to tolerate fascists.
Did you just not fucking read the top comment in this thread by shikotohno, that specifically said to rely on BALKANIZATION, the process of a country breaking up into smaller, often hostile, independent units typically due to economic, religious, or geopolitical interests, to solve the political strife within the country, or are you just daft?
The strat isn’t to give up and acquiesce to letting them have their own playground to perpetuate their oppression, just because it isn’t happening in your backyard, at the cost of sacrificing hundreds of thousands of innocent people trapped within the regions. You can’t “Deprogram the Trump Cult victims and rehabilitate them into the decent society” if you give the Trump cult their own independent region.
—“Who’s Next” by Tom Lehrer
WIth Americans, yes; but not with these fascist bigots. Americans have to learn to conflict with those, early, visibly, and often.
So basically, No. We shouldn’t.
Have you ever heard of Hadrian’s Wall ? That happens to all of them eventually.