- cross-posted to:
- politics@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- politics@lemmy.world
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This type of abuse is old as the hills. The rights enumerated in the constitution only apply to citizens. Look at how wiretapping is done among the “Five Eyes”. The USA just has allies do the snooping on its own citizens, conveniently dancing around the same constitutional protections. It’s unclear if even under the most charitable reading of the constitution if this should apply to an unlawful foreign resident of another country.
Cruel and unfair, definitely. Much like the electoral college, everyone likes to complain about it while not doing too much. If you find the above distasteful, then it should be made clear in US case law that aliens are eligible for constitutional protections. Until then, Trump and co. will gladly keep doing what they are doing, because they don’t care about “being fair”.
Bold assumption it won’t be citizens houses. Unachievable by a competent administrative.
I mean they already are. They’ve been doing this since March.
The only reason we know is because one of the many employees within ICE who have been leaking information to the press in the hopes we would pressure congress to do their jobs, also leaked this.
If you know anyone in the conservative camp that’s still blissfully unaware/not pissed yet, loop them in. Their voices are the most important when it comes to giving Congress one last try while they’re still collecting paychecks paid for by our tax dollars.
If it comes down to us fighting we will have to join together anyway if we stand any chance. The next civil war will not be left vs right, it will be Americans refusing to follow orders vs. corporate billionaires controlling both public and private military (Blackwater, Palantir, etc.).
it was supposed to be a secret?
Let’s face it, tRUMP is such a narcissistic fool that the only real shocking thing about all this is that he didn’t rage-tweet about it in the middle of the night whilst sitting on the toilet in-between faxing top secret documents to Russia and the Saudis.
Faxing top secret documents to Russia and the Saudis is what he was doing during Biden’s term. Now, he probably just gave daddy Putin his username and password
DOGE accounts keeps getting accessed from Russia, so…
Welcome to the New United States of America, where the Contitution is no longer valid where contradicting King Trump.
Leela: You’ll never pardon anybody because you’ll never get elected president. The voters of Earth aren’t the pea-brained idiots they were back in your time.
Nixon: Oh, no? Well, listen here, missy. Computers may be twice as fast as they were in 1973 but your average voter is as drunk and stupid as ever. The only one who’s changed is me. I’ve become bitter and, let’s face it, crazy over the years. And once I’m swept into office, I’ll sell our children’s organs to zoos for meat and I’ll go into people’s houses at night and wreck up the place.
Yet nixons head still seems less insane then trump
I think about this quote daily as I read the news.
There was a traffic stop a month or so ago where the city police were called by BP for assistance and they actually assisted them in kidnapping people. The mayor is pissed and says that can’t happen due to our sanctuary city status (since 1986) and now the federal government is suing us. We have a HUGE population of immigrants from all over the world here as refugees and to attend our two universities and this is going to get ugly.
The head of C&BP is coming to my city this week because of all this. Something tells me ICE is going to be crawling all over this city the whole week and longer. BP already crawls all over the city because we’re on the northern border.
I live in a HUD building. I see ICE searches without warning in my near future because of how many immigrants are here. My cane might be useful for more than just balancing me while walking.
The time is now for sword cane.
Record. Obstruct. Defend.
Do not bring a knife to a gun fight.
It’s a modern world, we use umbrella guns now.
I’m honored to have you among us.
If they break in my house I’m gonna start blasting as if they were criminals (which they are). I don’t play these games with normal people and I’m sure as shit not gonna play them with the plain clothes Trump gestapo. If anyone has seen Daredevil born again with the Fisk anti vigilante taskforce thats what we’re getting but irl.
I’m a fairly pacifist type, but I have a .30-06 rifle and a 9mm pistol loaded and by my bedside now. I’d like to get a shotgun though…but there are new rules where I am so it’s going to take some time.
Though it’s made by Israel, IWI makes a self defense shotgun that is California legal and holds 15 rounds.
Holy crap.
I’m from the Midwest so owning a pump action is basically mandatory. If you get one get some buckshot and slugs. Birdshot might be cheaper but it’s far too weak to actually do anything in a home invasion situation. If its armed ice agents busting down your door illegally I’d recommend steel slugs to combat their plates but they’re almost impossible to get since 2018. You won’t break through their armor with a normal slug but it sure as shit won’t feel nice and that might be enough to deter them depending on their goal.
Birdshot is perfectly acceptable in a home defense situation given the short ranges. It does have a lower lethality but unobstructed head and chest shots will most likely be fatal and will incapacitate.
An advantage to bird shot is that two layers of drywall may slow it down enough to prevent lethal injuries to bystanders such as family members in other rooms.
A disadvantage is that it will likely be stopped by body armor where buckshot packs enough punch that it can cause severe injury even if it doesn’t penetrate.
I don’t have ready sources for this, just general informed opinion.
Maybe against an average person. But we’re talking about armed I’ve agents who likely have armor. Also most people (me included) are trained to shoot center mass. If you’re getting shot at you’re not aiming for weak areas. You’re aiming for whatever is the easiest to hit.
Now I don’t do guns personally, so forgive me if I’m wrong. But wouldn’t buckshot also be finding soft tissue not covered by armor?
Semi related, I need to take self defense courses back up 🫡
Depends on how close you are. Most shotguns have basically zero spread in close quarters unless you modify the barrel to an illegal degree. That’s why I recommend slugs. You’re not gonna get enough spread anyway so might as well hit em with something that’s gonna hurt a lot more.
So to answer your question, not really. The spread of shotguns is greatly exaggerated in media and in a close quarters situation will probably be not existent unless you are using really specific shit. The real threat especially with 12 gauge is that it is more than powerful enough to take limbs off, turn organs into soup, and if you get hit in the head ya ain’t living.
This is actually why sawed offs are so dangerous they do infact increase the spread and when used in close quarters yeah… ya have a good chance of survival but I hope ya like hospital food.
Also yes I know shotguns are rarely that devastating but I ain’t over exaggerating by much either, if it’s good for home defense, Iwo Jimma, and the trenches of Verdun I suspect it’s a rather effective weapon to say the least.
Also yes I know shotguns are rarely that devastating but I ain’t over exaggerating by much either
Yeah not by much at all.
Hitting a person with a single 12ga shell of 00 buckshot is kind of like completely mag dumping a 9mm handgun at them.
Thank you for the info!
No problem. Stay safe out there.
So Trump is telling ICE to break the law? It looks like Trump is guilty of another crime.
Who’s gonna fuckin stop em??
They just arrested a judge. The only people who’ve been able to slow this roll.
What do you think happens next…?
The entire Armed Forces and Judicial Branch of the Executive is cronies from the Cabinet and AG down. If they feel like it they’ll mobilize militias to do their work for them.
Citizen cops. Watch out. You may not hate cops now, but you’ll understand what’s been wrong with the whole system real soon. “Good cops” will be placeholders for men favorable to the regime. They will be corrupted.
Bribes will become commonplace in day-to-day business. This will often feel counterproductive. That’s because it is.
Odds are this will play out quietly. Unless the Military does a surprise one, the Democrats aren’t putting forward anything capable of challenging the regime. Sorry AOC and Bernie, I love you but Coachella ain’t gonna cut it.
Build federated networks in your own life. The model applies. Organize horizontally not vertically/hierarchically. Find people making choices and doing things and help them.
Added predictions: the US invades Panama (again). Ukraine drags out. Recession settles in, staved off by markets hungry for short-term gains looted from Latin America, Ukraine, probably both. Probably around September a major bubble pops in the US stock market no matter what the tariff situation ends up being. Things get worse. Edit: Panama invasion may come as a result of this
Susan Collins just called: said he learned his lesson and it won’t happen again.
Fuck that removed. Was the most laughably idiotic comment she could’ve made.
So far breaking the law hasn’t bit him yet. Why should he start following it now?
It’s not a crime if there’s nobody left to uphold the law.
This is the actual reason why there is a 2nd amendment
If you thought overmilitarization of local police was bad, just wait until ICE gets tanks.
Yes, I understand that the 2nd amendment alone can’t stop a dictator if they have the army on their side… even though that was at least partly the intention when it was written
They believe the constitution should be interpreted to uphold the will of a leader/law and order over liberty of the people.
I’m not saying I disagree with you, just telling you what the legal argument will likely be when they arrest people or return force when people try to defend their home.
That argument JD Vance made about judges not having the authority to rule against executive decision is not his original argument. Adrian Vermeule is a Harvard constitutional law professor who has been making the argument favoring unchecked executive authority over all other government and executive power over liberty for a very long time.
Let’s fuck 'em up then.
Law and order? What are you smoking?
Trump has always described himself as the law and order president
The argument of ivy league legal scholars that are helping run his administration is that the people elected the president. The president’s duty is to do what he believes is best to protect the greatest number of people.
If Trump says that this is law now, and this law is necessary to protect the country, then individual liberty and rights will have to be secondary for the good of the country
The Harvard constitutional law professor that created this legal theory is a huge fan of Carl Schmitt.
Schmitt created the Nazi legal agenda using a similar legal argument which argued the will of the leader should be placed above all written law because it was best for Germany, making the German constitution basically useless.
This allowed Hitler to legally carry out genocide.
Such executive supremacy would really only work if the Leader is infallible, and only a simpleton would think such a person exists.
Many people find comfort in authoritarian personalities.
It’s also possible if you’re just willing to stop paying attention, and believe the people in power are doing what’s best for you. Trust them 😉
Thank you for explaining, and yes, I get all of that about how Trump and his intellectuals are claiming to be about law and order. My point was a more simple one: it can’t be about law and order if the president is above the law. Maybe we could use the term “order and law” instead, since they’re subjecting the law to the hierarchy of political power.
Following his orders = the law. He makes up the law, follow his orders.
That’s what dictators do.
So if they break into my home, I can shoot ‘em, right?
That’s my plan. Just upgraded my front door gun to something with a higher fire rate.
Is it aimed at your front door, or is the actual door a gun somehow?
In America, we make most things out of Gun™ for convenience.
Yeah, and thanks to our advancements in Gun™, my new giant truck gets a much better “zero to 60 Minutes” time than the old one.
edit- have to delete this comment because I posted it under an organization’s lemmy account by accident instead of my personal account. sorry bout that. I do not speak for the organization and any opinions I shared on this topic are my own and not theirs. (i just help post information about events for them).
Most states don’t require a permit, and most states didnt have laws about private sales for years so basically a bunch of guns can be traded that have no paperwork, the government doesn’t know who has guns anymore
The entire purpose of the USA’s second amendment is to protect the people from the government. There’s not supposed to be a standing army operating on local soil. Police, soldiers and ICE, ATF, DEA etc are the actual enemies at war with the population.
People keep saying this but it’s not really true. Right wingers say it when convenient (not now, gee wonder why they’re suddenly not making the argument). The second amendment was meant to allow citizens to form militias on behalf of the government, at a time that the country did not have a military.
You are absolutely wrong that gun permits are necessary in all states. In Florida, the state Constitution actually prohibits gun permits/ registration. In fact, DeSatan recently lowered the age of gun ownership to 18, and removed the requirement for a 4 hour class in order to get a carry permit. So an 18 year old can just buy a gun, stick it in their waistband, and walk out of the store, totally legally.
The result of these laws, or lack of them, is that we just had a college campus shooting by an 18 year old. He was able to legally walk around with a gun without breaking the law, until he set foot on campus, where it is still prohibited. OTOH, the state legislature tries every year to pass a law that permits guns on college campuses, and new congressman Randy Fine just sponsored a bill to do that in February. Considering we just had a lethal campus shooting at FSU, its doubtful it will pass this year either.
You’re certainly free to have your own opinions but most of your assumptions shouldn’t be trusted by anyone else reading this.
It is possible to purchase and own firearms without a permit - typically just limited in form-factor and features (i.e. shotgun, no handguns or semi-auto rifles). And even when a (purchase) permit is required, that doesn’t necessitate there being a registry and frequently one is explicitly disallowed. It’s also possible to buy/trade firearms with private citizens (or 3d print/mill your own if especially crafty) which wouldn’t provide a record to anybody but the included parties. When you aren’t legally required to disclose you have a firearm it’s always better not to make that known. Besides the potential worries about a fascist government coming for them, there’s the concern that a list of firearm owners going public is a prime target for theft and break-ins.
Rifles aren’t necessarily “slower to load,” are you speaking specifically of bolt-action rifles with this? It’s about the same amount of time and steps to load a magazine into an AR15 rifle as it is a semi-auto pistol. Unfortunately that also makes them effective in an unlawful mass shooting situation.
If you feel a firearm is the proper solution to the situation you NEVER aim to wound or fire warning shots. It’s (presumably) always a life or death situation so you’re hoping for the most effective “fight stopping wounds” which is basically center mass of whatever you can see. Same thing with rock salt in a shotgun, it’s going to legally be seen the same as if you were firing shot/slugs so you shouldn’t treat it like something you can use just to scare something off. In close range, shotguns will have practically no spread unless you’re using an extremely cut-down barrel (typically cut to an illegal degree) - you still need to (and should be) direct aiming it and not wildly firing from the hip.
Which states just let you buy a gun with no background check or registration?
How are people convicted of owning unregistered firearms if registration isn’t required?
Isn’t there always a waiting period and a background check?
Felons aren’t allowed to buy or own guns.
Which states just let you buy a gun with no background check or registration?
I’m not going to check current status of every state’s laws, but I did already address it’s possible to buy guns from places other than a licensed firearm dealer and required registration is less common than not. In private sales you’re at a minimum legally required to not intentionally sell to prohibited people but clearly that isn’t always obeyed - it’s possible some states require you to then register that transaction in some way but that’s not the default expectation/requirement everywhere.
How are people convicted of owning unregistered firearms if registration isn’t required?
People can be convicted if they are in a location or have prohibited items that DO require registration and they aren’t. Suppressors or short-barreled rifles/shotguns and full-auto firearms being common examples.
Isn’t there always a waiting period and a background check?
In my state, with a permit to purchase (good for 1 year, no qty limits) or a permit to carry (5 years, no qty limits) there is no waiting period. If buying from a licensed FFL there is still a NICS check with each purchase though.
Felons aren’t allowed to buy or own guns.
Correct. Felons also aren’t known for obeying the law so just being prohibited doesn’t ensure they can’t obtain a firearm.
Rifles aren’t necessarily “slower to load,” are you speaking specifically of bolt-action rifles with this? It’s about the same amount of time and steps to load a magazine into an AR15 rifle as it is a semi-auto pistol. Unfortunately that also makes them effective in an unlawful mass shooting situation.
yeah but the rifle holds only a few rounds. so the time it takes per bullet is significantly longer for a rifle.
I’m guessing this comment will get edited out too for being under the wrong account but I’ll share my reply anyway:
Unless you specify what you mean by “rifle” that designation does include things like an AR15 with a 50+ round drum magazine that will load and fire bullets as fast as you can pull the trigger. If you are talking about something like a breech loading single shot rifle or a Carcano that is certainly true, but specificity is actually important when talking about firearms and related laws and it’s not just pedantry for the sake of nitpicking. It’s why gun people get anal about when people interchangeably use “assault rifle” and “assault weapon”, or claiming a firearm is “fully semi-automatic” - it’s important to use precise language because there’s vast differences in the various terms and concepts. Yes, generally it’s possible to discern from context that someone using the word “clip” to refer to a magazine-fed weapon isn’t using it literally, but if you want to try to speak authoritatively on the subject you should know what the difference is.
Should be noted that some states actively forbid gun registration.
ICE is a criminal organization.
All cops are bastards and most are working with them
A Terrorist organization.
There are some within ice who were reshuffled as punishment for Jan 6 investigations when Trump took over. They have been leaking information about what was going on to the press, and facing threats from the administration
I’m guessing we wouldn’t even know about this memo if not for people like this. I bring this up bc it’s important to keep in mind that if Congress will not act (which it seems like they won’t) we will be relying on the agents who are not loyalists, refusing to carry out orders.
If public opinion does not support agents who take a stand and refuse orders (not the loyalists, fuck them without a doubt) and have been leaking information like this memo, Trump will have ammunition that he can use to kill dissent and show other ice employees it’s in their best interest to carry out orders because the public is not on their side.
This is likely why he’s trying to reshuffle as many agents and even city police to get involved in immigration policy.
I voted for the current sheriff of my parish. First time I was ever passionate about voting for a sheriff because she was also a former police corruption monitor. She is now being taken to court by our state AG this Wednesday to force her to adopt federal immigration policy in her own jurisdiction.
If the judge agrees with the AG, which sadly, she probably will, the sheriff and local police will also be under legal orders to carry this shit out or face termination/possible jail time for interfering with immigration policy.
Hey ICE, if the President tells you to do something illegal, you don’t do it! You can still be held liable.
Is it really that hard to have ethics anymore?
ICE doesn’t care. They’re obviously enjoying being able to do what theyve been doing the past few months.
There are federal agents that have been reshuffled to ICE as punishment for the Jan 6 investigations, and have been accused of leaking information to the press.
I originally just thought the termination of civil rights offices would mainly be to use polygraphs on these employees and refuse due process rights because so many were trying to warn people of what this administration is doing.
I wasn’t expecting something like this memo so soon.
There are definitely plenty of loyalists carrying this shit out, but I believe the administration may be intentionally trying to reshuffle as many federal employees as possible (and now city police to ICE) to increase civil unrest and increase the chances the public will turn on the same people leaking information.
If Congress won’t do their job, it will come down to these people willing to refuse orders and face termination if not arrest. The only reason I bring this up, is that if this happens we should keep in mind that there have been people inside ICE trying to warn the country about this stuff for a long time.
If we are too quick to dismiss all of them as loyalists, the administration will be able to downplay any dissent when orders are refused, and possibly convince others who are on the fence that it’s in their best interest to comply bc the public is not on their side.
The things is based on their legal interpretation of the constitution, the people chose the president to uphold law and order and do what’s best for the people. If the president determines this is what is necessary in order to protect the people from terrorists, his legal team will argue for a constitutional interpretation that says individual liberty is always secondary to the common good.
Just to be clear, this is not what I believe or support. This is what they will argue. I am writing this to try and warn people what they have in mind when they talk about constitutional interpretation
the supreme court gets to decide this. And considering some of the recent rulings about due process, I am hopeful.
But how are they going to enforce it? They’ve enforced 0 rulings so far. Trump has been publicly mocking them while defying their orders
I am hopeful if it does, but the memo is saying they can just do this. So it will take this actually being enforced and someone’s (or multiple people’s) rights being violated for this to end up before the supreme court.
I think it’s no coincidence there was such a high profile arrest of that judge in Wisconsin just before this happened.
Right, and history shows that these are major mistakes that always have consequences.
I hope so. If the Senate and representatives won’t take a stand (which seems they won’t), it will be up to police, federal agents, and military leaders taking a stand and refusing orders, probably being terminated if not jailed/court martialed, and public support for them.
Let’s see how long it takes for an ICE goon to get the FAFO treatment.
If history is to judge, it takes about 10-15 years for fascism to die. There is usually a lot of bloodshed in the process.
I know most people on Lemmy are already aware of this, but I’m wondering if anyone who still doesn’t think it will effect U.S. citizens (whatever that even means anymore) realize that DHS is also trying to dismantle their civil rights offices.
They are claiming it is because the offices keep getting in the way of their immigration practices, but only 2 of the 3 offices have to do with immigration.
They 3rd is the office of Civil Rights and Civil Liberties. It doesn’t matter if you believe you’re the “right kind of American,” or you can argue that you can trace your family to the Mayflower. This is who ensures you have civil rights and civil liberties while dealing with DHS. If you or a loved one end up in DHS custody for some reason and need to use FOIA to prove it happened, this is the office you would rely on.
The people that handle domestic security for the country want to get rid of the office that protects the rights of Americans. Meanwhile, they have also signed this memo saying they no longer need a warrant to search people’s homes if they suspect there might be an immigrant hiding in your home bc those immigrants might be terrorists.
Again, if you’re thinking well I’m not hiding immigrants, it really doesn’t matter.
Maybe one of your neighbors reported you were to fuck with you. Maybe you pissed off the wrong DHS agent or other government employee and you’re being targeted.
The point is, if you’re not concerned because you think it won’t effect you, your ancestors that “came here legally” to escape tyranny would think you’re either stupid, delusional, or simply choosing to be in complete denial of reality.
Maybe one of your neighbors reported you were to fuck with you. Maybe you pissed off the wrong DHS agent or other government employee and you’re being targeted.
This is exactly what happened during the French Reign of Terror, the Salem Witch Trials, and countless other times throughout history. It’s happened before, and it will happen again. If someone doesn’t like you for whatever reason, they would now have a way to get rid of you, just by using one accusation, regardless of whether it’s true or not.
This shit is so similar to the reign of terror and other failed authoritarian playbooks, I’ve honestly wondered if they’re just feeding AI historical data to come up with plans that avoid the pitfalls of previous dictators.
Like they don’t comprehend that dictatorships will always inevitably fail because people have an innate desire/drive to be free from oppression and tyranny. Not because dictator X did Y instead of Z, so maybe if they combine dictator X’s strategy with dictators A and B, it might just work this time!
Yep.
This means the 4th Amendment is dead.
Oh, any LE agency wants to search your house? Your car?
Uh, hrm, which very vaguely suspected migrants live in your building, your neighborhood?
2 miles away? Whatever, close enough.
Ok, now you’ve got ICE at your door, on the flimsiest evidence, connected in the flimsiest way, to a person suspected on a different set of flimsy evidence…
… And they are just searching your place because random guy may have been in the area, might have burgled you, whatever, who cares, we’ve got a warrant, lots of guns, do not interfere with our investigation.
Yeah this is serious authoritarian secret police 101
They just defanged Congress and the Judicial, now they don’t need judges at all unless they want em. This seals the coup
Hmm. Stand your ground against fascism.
