I hate seeing old people working at establishments like grocery stores. It is the saddest representation that our system does not work. They should be living their life traveling, spending time with family, or gardening. No one should have to work into their 60’s.
Hi,
Welcome to the Universe. You get to exist for a comparatively extremely short blip of time before you return to the nothingness forever. Despite incredible advances in technology and subsequent major increases in productivity we’re going to need you to continue working right up until you return to the nothingness. Thanks for your cooperation!
At least its not being presented as a feel good story. Still remember bush brining up the person with three jobs as inspiring.
Gotta love it when nepo babies tell us how virtuous working is.
Whew. I’m so glad this couple wasn’t subject to the horrors of socialism! Only capitalism can keep them gainfully employed until they are near-death. No other economic system can even compare!
Don’t forget that capitalism is literally the only viable economic system, full stop. Before its advent in 1463 by Bernard H. Capital, nothing worked, anywhere, for tens of thousands of years. The world was in turmoil. Cats associated freely with dogs, the Keebler elves were not properly enslaved, and humans lived on a diet of pine needles, grubs, and sea water. Pure madness.
Remember: Capitalism came about from rich merchants and lords realizing that citizens were starting to get murdery about their tyrranical monarchs so they basically said “hey, what if we make a system based on money that technically everyone has but where the shear amount of wealth we have in comparison means that we’re basically still monarchs without monarchy?”
Which, to relate to your comment, is to say that the system hasn’t meaningfully changed and we’ve had “capitalism” for a long, long time(and it’s sucked the whole time it was happening!)
Man that sucks.
However I have to be that person and say I know people who wasted tons of money on stupid shit and made dumb choices even though they had advisors helping them, and are working at Walmart in their 70s because of it. Those people shouldn’t be rewarded with regular Joe’s money. Now, billionaires can foot that bill, like they should everything. But dont punish the 99.9% (which is what will actually happen. And why people are afraid of liberals in office. No one seems to get that, and thats why the right keeps winning. It needs to be clearly stated in the lefts playbook that anyone making under a billion dollars will be left alone. Then they may have a chance.)
Keep in mind these are not my thoughts, these are my observations of the Common Person in red states.
in before a republican tries to sell this as excellent work ethics, patriotism and american dream
On Lemmy?
My eighty year-old parents are driving for DoorDash. In my car.
If they don’t, this supposedly ‘free’ country of ours will allow banks to force them onto the streets where they will be left for dead.
Fuck capitalism.
Fuck capitalism.
Isn’t that an America problem?
Also randomly wasn’t this how we lived before pensions?
Also randomly wasn’t this how we lived before pensions?
I suspect you’re making a point here, but I’m not sure what it is.
Remember that the silents were born in an age where unions were far more prevalent. I’m not sure whether that addresses the point you were trying to make, but maybe.
yeah like before modern capitalism, how did we live? we just worked until we couldn’t yeah?
Just because humanity used to do something, doesn’t mean it was good. We also used to send 10 year old kids to work in coal mines.
Also, I am not sure “we just worked until we couldn’t” is true in the way you think. Sure, in medieval times there might not have truly been the concept of a pension, but it was also the case that multiple generations lived in the same household, and when the elders became too old to do the more manually demanding labor, they would transition to different kind of work.
So, sure, elders may still have worked in a sense, but they were not expected to contribute in the same ways (and in some cases at all), and they would certainly not have been left in the streets if they stopped being able to.
I don’t think they’re arguing for the old ways but rather just wondering out loud
Yep so it sounds like computers and society may be to blame for this? As we’ve moved towards a more individualistic society over the last 100 years we’ve gained a lot of things but being able to take care of our elders appears to have been lost in the fray :\
This will hurt a lot coming up with the low fertility rate and significant amount of older people
Hmm, I would disagree with this. Computers and, before them, the many form of automations that led to the industrial revolution are not inherently bad or good. Automation has the ability to drastically reduce the amount of manual labor needed. In an ideal society, this means that we would work less for the same (or better) conditions.
In an industrial capitalistic society though, automation just means that the owner class can extract more value without bettering the material conditions of the workforce.
So I would not blame automation, I would blame the sociopathy of the people with the means to do good.
Of course, this doesn’t change the end result. You are right, all around the world we’re soon going to see the end result of many of these societal issues, and elder people are going to suffer much more than in the past due to them.
why do you talk in a weird wikipedia style :/
edit: are you using a translator app/website?
from your earlier post
and they would certainly not have been left in the streets if they stopped being able to.
as worked out above in my other post they are not living on the street, they’re living an extremely nice first world life that they need to pay for, they could easily cut their expenses down by 1/3rd and still have a better life than most of the planet and in history without the need for any of their children or others having to live with them
In an industrial capitalistic society though, automation just means that the owner class can extract more value without bettering the material conditions of the workforce.
this sounds like you read a wikipedia article on communism and are just pasting it here
they live, clearly, materially better conditions not just in nearly every aspect of the workplace, from safety to tools, to a clearly materially better life in a nice happy retirement village with a nice new car and all the first world modern medicine they need, not the least after they have recently had multiple modern surgeries which have kept them alive to begin with
they blame their situation on a lack of access to personal finance advice:
They grew up against the economic backdrop of the Great Depression and World War II, and learned to be financially cautious after seeing what their parents endured. However, they didn’t have access to the same kind of personal finance advice and tools that are prevalent today.
and i’m pretty sure they’re not planning on moving to cuba anytime soon
I know plenty of people in Canada and Mexico that still work much later than they should have to to support family members. Might not be a problem in more socialist countries but definitely not uniquely an American problem.
yeah wondering about the special pleading going on here, as i realised above, I’m really not sure about their finances
Most of the world has and to a large degree still relies on relatives to support them when they can’t work anymore
100% this is what i was thinking of, what do people in those countries do if they don’t have children to take care of them?
Some sort of charity. From religious institutions, some sort of alms house etc. Or just beg and die.
Right now, the Hindses take in $4,600 a month from their Social Security, Bill’s pension from a TV station in Connecticut, and Lydia’s monthly wages. Monthly rent for their one-bedroom apartment in a 55-plus development is $1,400, their car payment is $625 a month, their car insurance is $236 a month, and their Medicare combined is $426 a month. On top of that, they have emergency medical expenses, medications, grocery and gas bills, and utilities. They’re left with close to nothing at the end of the month.
The hell is this? 2.1k a month on rent??
Why do they have to pay nearly $1000 a month for a car?? What is a car payment? are they renting a car at extortion rates?
Is this normal in America?
According to this article, average payment is $745 new / $521 used on a 6 year note. So they either have a nicer used car or slightly below average new car.
$1,400 for rent in a managed apartment complex in a US suburban area also doesn’t raise an eyebrow, especially in a northeast state like Connecticut.
So yeah, this is “normal” in America.
That rent is damn good in ct
no its not normal to pay that much per month for a car. these people are being taken advantage of.
I’m guessing (more likely) the car is on payment plan or (less likely imo) it’s leased.
Pensions are a roman invention
Pensions are a roman invention
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_retirement
Looks like it was just for those who served in the military, what did other people do?
In 1881,[3][4] the conservative German chancellor, Otto Von Bismarck, in a maneuver against Marxists who were burgeoning in power and popularity, announced that anyone over 70 years old would be forced to retire and that he would pay a pension to them
What did they do before 1881? Just keep working?
Usually, they died well before, or lived in wealth from the remaining wealth.
LOL
loser countryI feel sorry for the 81 year old and her husband. However, they have made nearly every wrong financial decision over most of their lives.
- In 1994 husband was making $90k a year and quit that job to start up a band and teach music lessons
- They bought a fixer-upper house in 2002 to flip it, except they still had it in hand in 2008 when the real estate market crashed
- They had $75k in the market prior to the crash, and sold it all at the bottom of the market before the rebound.
- They never saved more than $10k in a 401k
- They defaulted on their mortgage in 2015 and lost he house, but did gain $115k from the forced sale.
- They declared bankruptcy (it doesn’t say when). Usually this protects the house, as in you’re not kicked out. So I can’t quite square why the house was forced for sale if they were under bankruptcy protection. This is a clue they had a lot more debt than just the house.
- “The income from a side business Lydia had started to help people downsize their homes, and the piano lessons that Bill gave, weren’t enough.” This was 2015 and at best their only income was a couple small side hustles. Admittedly they were in their early 70s at this point.
- Even today it looks like they’re spending over 20% of their income on car related expenses (payment, insurance, gas).
- They’re also still living in Connecticut which looks to be more expensive place to live. A quick Google search of West Virginia 55+ one bedroom apartments go for $450-$900. So they could probably cut their rent in half if they moved to a cheaper city/state.
They’ve truly had some horrible timing and luck, however I truly hope their situation improves.
Why is it that every comment chain about an unfortunate event has at least one callous person who is obviously victim blaming but trying their best to downplay it?
I’ll ask you directly, why are you doing this, partial_accumen? Are you trying to convince yourself that this couldn’t happen to you? Are you perhaps trying to convince yourself to stick with your soul-sucking yet decent paying job? What’s your motivation?
Why is it that every comment chain about an unfortunate event has at least one callous person who is obviously victim blaming but trying their best to downplay it? I’ll ask you directly, why are you doing this, partial_accumen? What’s your motivation?
I can’t speak for every comment chain, only this one. For this one I CAN respond to you.
For so much of life we are powerless. The forces and events are beyond us and we’re simply swept away suffering whatever fate chances gives us. Its frightening and very real. As an example, someone born into a war torn country had no control over the geography of their birth. They are at constant risk of death. There are only a few small things a person can do in that situation and very few of them will result in meaningful change. They will likely be victim of the circumstances that were handed to them through no fault of their own.
None of that is what this 80+ couple is.
This couple has had opportunity after opportunity handed to them. They chose again and again to choose the risky, easy, or comfortable path. They are still doing that even today in a couple areas! This couple is NOT simply victims of circumstance. They had power and ability to affect massive positive change on their present and future existence throughout the second half of their lives (which is as far back as the article goes). Instead at many turns they chose options that point to THIS path. The one with the wife having to work at Home Depot at 81.
Conflating my prior example and this couple together as simply victims does a disservice to the former. It also paints a picture that the couple’s path is inevitable for all of us, and it isn’t! It is valuable to learn from the mistakes of others so that we do not make the same mistakes ourselves.
Are you trying to convince yourself that this couldn’t happen to you?
It won’t. Something else will, but THIS won’t. Others that look at and learn how this couple lived will also be spared their fate, because we can examine what mistakes they made and change course ourselves so that we don’t end up in their avoidable situation.
I feel sympathy for them, as I have stated multiple times. I fully understand that we all make mistakes. None of us are perfect. Circumstances did a number on them, but they are not blameless for their situation. There are many in similar situations to this couple that are blameless. Those others have much more sympathy from me.
Were they supposed to use their crystal ball to predict the 2008 grift and subsequent rebound?
In your list, nearly everything that comes after that is a symptom of trying to navigate financial hardship.l and being old enough to face age discrimination in the job market.
Dude im in my 30s and I hate moving. You cant just up and move to a different state that easily, especially at that age.
Dude im in my 30s and I hate moving. You cant just up and move to a different state that easily, especially at that age.
Everyone hates moving. The other option is living above your means, which is what these folks are doing which translates into an 81 year old having to work. This also didn’t happen one day out of the blue. They’ve been living above their means for decades and they’ve had decades to see this would be the result of their choices.
A quick Google search of West Virginia 55+ one bedroom apartments go for $450-$900.
Bwah ha ha. This may surprise you, but one of the reasons apartments are so cheap in WV is that there are no jobs in WV. And definitely not jobs for octogenarians.
Bwah ha ha. This may surprise you, but one of the reasons apartments are so cheap in WV is that there are no jobs in WV. And definitely not jobs for octogenarians.
If they are living in WV, as an example, they don’t need the additional income from a job to live. I’m suggesting they move *so they don’t have to work.
Sorry but your last point is absolutely asinine. It ignores the hardships caused by relocating, the fact that rural hospitals like those available in WV are continuously shutting their doors as they are deemed unprofitable (the husband has health problems), and the fact that, based upon a wealth of international studies, the isolation from social support networks that they’d assuredly face, is pretty much a death sentence.
So, from that point alone, your statement could be paraphrased as: “They don’t need to live in such an unaffordable place; they could just die instead.”
the isolation from social support networks that they’d assuredly face, is pretty much a death sentence.
They are THIS CLOSE to homelessness right now. Is homelessness for an 81 year old woman with a 90 year old husband not also a death sentence?
Sorry but your last point is absolutely asinine.
…and…
is pretty much a death sentence.
What do you call being forced to work at 81 (with a 90 year old non-working husband), and only being able to work 4 of the 5 hour shift because you’re exhausted? How about the fact that they are THIS CLOSE to being homeless if she doesn’t work? They’ve had bad luck and made bad choices for most of the second half of their lives. We don’t have any good solutions left only least worst.
You’re saying that moving is a death sentence. I’m saying homelessness is, which is what is in their near future.
What do you call being forced to work at 81 (with a 90 year old non-working husband), and only being able to work 4 of the 5 hour shift because you’re exhausted?
I call it “absolutely fucked up”.
You’re saying that moving is a death sentence. I’m saying homelessness is, which is what is in their near future.
Maybe I took you the wrong way, if so, my apologies. I think that this is a case of both statements bring correct. They are effectively being murdered through fiscal policy and corruption.
Pretty much all rural hospitals will close when the Medicaid cuts take effect after the next midterms.
Who gives a shit? No one should have to spend their 80s working
I understand the sentiment but what he is saying is also important. Imagine, starting tomorrow everyone above 60 will get 5000 dolars every month. Will this couple in particular be able to live with it or will they make more bad choices.
I’m 100% pro supporting the retired community but Financial literacy is also very important, otherwise it doesn’t matter how much money you give them.
It’s so important to teach finamcial literacy from an early age
edit: just to add I’m not american. My.mother is 70yo and in my country retirement is supported by the government, but she still makes shitty choices from time to time.
That’s why you don’t give out money, you subsidize what people need in their age - rent, mobility, care. You can’t make wrong decisions with money that is bound to services - it also means whatever comes, they are neither threatened by homelessness nor isolation. But that would be socialism, and we know how the US thinks about that, regardless of consequences like letting old people die in the streets.
I will be able to afford to retire where I live, I cant afford to retire in Manhattan or Monaco.
Imagine, starting tomorrow everyone above 60 will get 5000 dolars every month.
Is that really the only solution? A one liner?
It should rather be possible for some people to live in a retirement home.
I’m sure it was just an example.
Who gives a shit? No one should have to spend their 80s working
They are today still making choices which are forcing them to work. They might be able to not work if they move to a cheaper area and give up their expensive car.
Then they have a new problem; isolation. Given having to work or be isolated, work is better
Like move to a different state? They have family and friends there probably and also moving can be expensive.
But I agree, some people can make bad financial choices, but mostly it’s not educated choices. So they need help either way, probably financially and consulting.
What you said doesn’t address what he said.
this is the generation thats fucked us over and they’re complaining about suffering through shit we all know we’re going to have to deal with to an even worse extent.
I mean yeah this country is fucked. clearly, the powerful just want slaves. Even so, these people made their own bed to a large extent. Its hard to feel that sorry for them.
So what if “this is the generation”. Doesn’t invalidate that they should be able to retire. Nobody said they should have all the luxuries.
Im not in disagreement with you, im just saying i have a hard time feeling sorry for them.
boomers…
Cool. A majority of people my age are in the same boat without being cursed/dipshits.
Can’t give a fuck about a poor boomer. Fuck em.
Welcome to what younger generations realized a decade ago or more. Most of us will never own a home or retire. I plan to end it when my life becomes unbearable in old age rather than be a slave to the system. That’s why, even though we (spouse and I) financially save for the future, I live for now. We (collectively) have no future. Accepting it is easier than being depressed about it.
Note: this doesn’t mean I don’t do what I can to try to save our (collective) future. It’d be selfish not to try.
Somebody launch my carcass through a billionaires front window please when I’m old.
Only if I can strap dynamite to you first.
Shove it in my ass please
Duh. Thank you MeatPilot
I think that goes without saying
Yes! Go full exploding beach whale!
A noble purpose 🫡
I’d say two decades ago, maybe even three. Pensions gone, social security inadequate, ira/401k sorta a joke.
this just makes me wonder even more why people aren’t more open to direct (violent) action. Seriously if this is the outlook, what is holding people back?
Genuine abhorrence of violence. Even though I think (know) it’s the only way we can overcome the lying, cheating, violent bastards on the other side, growing up in an abusive home makes the idea nauseating to me.
I do believe we’ll reach a point where we have no choice, though I fear that will happen when it’s too late.
Also, conditioning by mass media over a lifetime.
We’ve been brainwashed to believe things like vigilantism are bad and that violence should be avoided at all costs because it makes you a bad person. Republicans are out there forming militias and the left is sitting on its hands hoping that their corrupt and weak fisted leadership will solve all their problems. We are so fucked its almost funny. All we can really do now is hope that it gets so bad that it finally snaps the masses out of its complacent stupor and into some sort of real action beyond just standing around holding signs like a bunch of naive idiots.
I couldn’t agree more. That’s why people love Luigi so much and why there’s no sympathy for the Blackrock CEO who got killed at random. People are happy to see action; they just aren’t ready to act.
Inertia
My retirement plan is assisted suicide (in Canada, of course). Feels weird to be saving for death, but this is the reality we live in. What else can I do? Wait until I can’t work anymore and can’t pay my mortgage and hydro bill? And then what, hang myself in the barn? Fuck that, I want to go out high af and feeling no pain.
I plan to get a small bomb for when I had enough. Have some issues though so far.
plenty of instructions online detailing how to make your own
I can’t just search that up, that will raise red flags…
let me introduce you to my friends Tor and VPN.
You are in a dual income no kids situation and think you’ll never own a home? Where do you live where a dual income can’t support buying a house…
This 81-year-old still works at Home Depot to support herself and her 90-year-old husband
Bay Area, California. And before you tell me to move to a place where I can afford a cheaper home, I don’t want to live in any of those places. I’ve lived in them and I hated them for various reasons. This is the one place in the USA where I feel absolutely at home.
it’s cool but so far 4/4 people have said they live in california, it’s clear it’s expensive for a reason
One reason is jobs. People with skills in tech can’t always work full-time remote and have to come to the office at least enough to have to be able to drive there (and honestly, the best jobs are here by multiple definitions). Another is the culture. I literally feel absolutely at home here in a way that I might only experience in a few other places in the country (maybe Portland, for example, but there’s a lot of racists in that state). Another is the weather. After living in places with ultra hot summers and ultra cold winters, I don’t have any tolerance for dealing with that shit again. It’s a nice trifecta of what I want / need to live the life that I want to live.
As an aside, living here also exposes me to a ton of live music that isn’t accessible in other parts of the country. Take bands that come from oversees. Where are they almost guaranteed to play? Large coastal cities like NY, SF, LA. There are so many bands that come here that can’t make a profit playing any but the largest cities because they aren’t super popular in the states, but they can draw enough people in large urban areas to make it worth their while. Examples that I’ve seen recently (last few years): Air, Kula Shaker, Lords of Acid, Ladytron, Ott, The Presets. Good luck seeing all of them in Denver or Houston.
Ever been to Cali? I love it here but good god it’s crazy
There are plenty of more affordable places to live in CA. I finally moved to one of them during the Pandemic and its prob one of the best decisions I ever made. I’ve had a lot of job offers since then, but most have been dependant on moving back to those expensive areas. I’ve turned down a lot of jobs.
Cali, Colombia?
-Fornia
Californian here. Studios are starting around $3,200 where I live in socal.
I have a cousin who lives in LA. He rents a studio for something like $1100 a month, in a decent part of the city. Apparently it’s rent-controlled, which is something I’ve never heard of as far as Los Angeles is concerned.
To be honest, I heard of all this through his mother. I kind of suspect he’s lying to her and is actually a drug dealer and his place costs a lot more than he’s letting on.
He’s a drug dealer. There’s nothing in LA for anything near $1100 lol. $3k is the minimum for a 2 bedroom place absolute minimum.
man… i remember paying 800 a month for a studio in the bay area in 2006. And that studio was right on the water with an ocean view. $3200 is absolutely disgusting.
is it not possible to move to a place with houses which are lower in price?
In Australia it’s not really possible because everyone did that and now houses are high in price literally everywhere but surely in America they would have more states and places that have lower house prices?
not for a lot of people when every single fuckface ceo is trying to get people to RTO.
“I feel trapped working, but I can’t stop working,” Lydia says, sitting up to cuddle her basset hound, Brigette. Her husband, Bill, gives her a kiss but lets her be. The 90-year-old would like to get a job to help Lydia pay the bills, but because of health problems, there’s little he can do.
“I feel so guilty that I can’t work,” Bill says.
“You can’t work because of your age and your health issues,” Lydia snaps back. “There’s no sense feeling guilty about it.”
'Murica
On Reddit this would be an uplifting story about how Home Depot employs the elderly to help them pay medical bills.
Most of the MSM outlets report it that way, and it always feels ghoulish as fuck to me.
“'Murica” isn’t helpful in any way. You’re just pointing at people suffering and saying “they’re suffering”. It’s useless and adds nothing valuable to the discussion.
Eh, I think it’s a useful saying, as an American.
It’s a mockery of our pride and technical prosperity.
Ditch the pet. As much as I used to love animals, I now see them as a ridiculous expensive hobby and unethical.
I don’t picture myself at 80 scooping litter, stepping in vomit, brushing a cat every two days, having hair everywhere, having the cat take a crap while I’m preparing my food (every damn time), having the cat fart in my face every morning when I don’t get up quick enough for its tastes, buying expensive food because the intense flavorings they use make the cat refuse store brand food, having to get expensive vet check ups, the medications, the city wanting medallions, etc
I can’t even imagine having to drag a dog outside and picking up warm shits, the smell…
This generation needs to pick itself up by their bootstraps and remember that work dignifies. 81 years young! /s
I’m about to turn 52 and I’ve known my whole life that I’d never get to retire.
Yup 42 prob die at work. Lucky its just me and I don’t have to worry about anyone else. Just turn wrenches til I croak haha.
Similar boat here but I’m only here until my parents go, then I’m done. I don’t have any intention of continuing this bullshit until I can’t anymore. I didn’t ask to be here, I don’t want to be here, I just don’t want to break anybody when I go.
She’s obviously selling her scripts if she’s surviving at that job.
Their monthly income is $4600 including SSI and a pension.
Surprised they don’t have a paid off home at that age.
Not sure why they need a $625/month car (instead of something with a monthly payment less than half that amount).
Damn I can’t even imagine making that monthly.
Much as that car doesn’t make sense out of context, that’s not what’s fucking up their finances. They get a little over 4k a month. Their car, apartment, and medicaid cost about 2k.
They’re getting fucked on the medical bills, guarantee it. Worse, the car might also be considered to be a ‘medical bill’ in that it’s required for them to get around at all.
older people simply don’t know how to save money. they don’t know how to navigate the internet like we do and they’re not savvy enough to locate deals or negotiate like younger people are.
I’m really not surprised they’re getting ripped off. Everyone in this country wants to rip everyone else off because thats what capitalism has taught us we need to do to survive. Being old lowers your defenses against it. Hell, its why so many older people are victims of scams.
They really should invest in Bitcoin.
Used car prices have shot up over the last few years. Add on the increasing price for new ones nd it is not hard to see why. People not paying of their cars and rolling over the remaining balance is the new norm.
For real, every time I buy a car (used) it gets older and more expensive.
Sad when you can’t find a decent small truck under $10k unless you want 300k miles. Shit is out of control
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Their monthly income is $4600 including SSI and a pension.
They could move to a cheaper country and finally retire.
If anyone locates a gofundme for them, please let me know. Couldn’t find one myself.
Edit: what kind of ghoul downvotes this?
