- cross-posted to:
- whitepeopletwitter@sh.itjust.works
- cross-posted to:
- whitepeopletwitter@sh.itjust.works
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Great. Glad to see that we’re learning nothing here. If I wasn’t pushed into despair by the election results, seeing progressives respond this way to the loss might push me over the edge.
We are a bigoted country, no doubt. But, our working class is struggling. People are inherently good, inherently bad, brilliant, dumb, and all sorts of combinations of those. Material conditions, messaging, and framing all work together in bringing out these different sides of ourselves both at the societal and individual level.
Responding to this loss with “the only way to win is to be racist” is basically just giving up and saying the fascists are right. If we decide to roll over and die because we’re too chickenshit to fight, too cynical to have any imagination, and too self-pitying to even lift a finger, the most vulnerable of us (which includes me) will perish.
We HAVE to be better than this.
Responding to this loss with “the only way to win is to be racist” is basically just giving up and saying the fascists are right.
And the joke is that Dems will still lose on these terms, because they are already branded the Woke party. Might as well try and out-racist the KKK as the GOP. It’s not a race Dems are in a position to win. All they can do is shed even more of their base to Jill Stein and Uncommitted.
These aren’t progressives. These are liberals. These are the same people who, when they were told 8 years ago that economic anxiety made voters turn to Trump, they said mocked them, saying, “Oh, I guess the economy made them racist!”
Yeah, racism and misogyny played a huge role in this election, but people don’t vote for a guy who promises to burn everything down when they’re doing well. I’d have thought this time, given that the Democrats lost ground with both black and Latino voters, they might finally have to finally acknowledge that their failures are due to more than just bigotry. I’m starting to doubt that, though…
If you look at the voters who voted for the dem in 2020 and sat out this time it was almost all older white men
Older white men were the demographic that stayed home because they didn’t want to vote for a woman who had identical policies to the man they previously voted for.
Pretending like white men sat out exclusively because of “inflation” while no other demographic did is probably not the takeaway
That being said we absolutely need to kill the Duopoly, hopefully a third progressive party can exist with the Dems sucking corporate cock
If you look at the voters who voted for the dem in 2020 and sat out this time it was almost all older white men
Kamala Harris won 28%, while Donald Trump won 47%, according to unofficial results from the city clerk, reported by the network.
Metro Detroit is home to the nation’s largest concentration of Arab Americans, with a large proportion of them living in Dearborn. The city—which Democrat Joe Biden won by a 3-to-1 margin in 2020—has been roiled by political turmoil, with many upset with the Biden-Harris administration’s handling of the Israel-Hamas war.
The response by so many people has been pathetic. Liberals are learning nothing.
The only messaging problem was taking the momentum of the debate and shitting on it with the right-wing heelturn the moment the Cheneys said “never Trump”.
Yeah let’s blame white supremacy and ignore the fact that the democratic candidate lost FOURTEEN MILLION voters this election cycle.
It was more like 11mil, and were almost exclusively white men who just didn’t vote this time after they chose to vote in 2020
Oh I’m sorry, only 11 million, my bad. That suddenly decided to become white supremacists out of nowhere when they had rejected trump the first time. It’s always someone else’s fault, isn’t it?
You had me at white man
She did try her darnedest too, though.
Another one of her messaging issues was that she has a vagina.
I’m fairly certain that a transwoman would have done even worse in polls. It does make me wonder how a transman would fare, though.
I understand the poster may be very emotional because of the election. Yet, This strikes me as incredibly reductive.
I think she lost because, she represents the continuation of the current administration. People want to break from the status quo, even if that means harming society to do it.
The dems need a left wing populist, asap.
I keep hearing this ‘status quo’ excuse but no one ever explains what the fuck that’s supposed to even mean.
Unpopular, uncharismatic, neoliberal establishment candidates that are pushed down the throat of democratic party voters (Hillary, Biden, Kamala)
The exact same DNC also pushed Obama down our throats who had the same policies as all those canidates, and that turned out great
Great? Wasn’t it that Obamas ambivalence towards lower offices and rise of identity politics that ushered an era of Republican obstructionists and things barely got passed, if at all?
Bernie would’ve mopped the floor with Trump. But instead we got the wife of a pervert who has the charisma of a hangnail, and who on top of that, actively promoted Trump in Republican primaries because she thought he’d be an easy candidate to beat.
Ignoring, gaslighting, belittling, and berating the electoral base is not how you gather support
Too little too late. If the GOP sees a left wing populist emerge they will use the all three branches of government to crush them and entrenched themselves further.
This was checkmate friends. Violent revolution is the only option left. It’s probably going to take 20-40 years before everyone gets there but luckily for us climate change will have already taken root and we just get to burn.
Literally all you post is political rage-bait. How is the weather in Russia these days comrade?
This kind of shit is exactly what Russia wants. Divide the US, push violence, destabilize the country. We have paths forward that do not involve violence. Now is the time to push for ranked choice voting to allow 3rd party candidates a real chance. The DNC has been out of touch for years, and ranked choice voting will allow us to side step them and choose a candidate with a real chance.
Start small and local. Connect with your local representatives. Have a conversation about ranked choice voting. Come up with a plan that we can achieve together to make this a reality.
You don’t get it. The Russians are getting what they want because the DNC has done nothing to stop it. You can keep fighting uphill and I’ll continue to lend my vote but you get nothing else. Sorry.
If you want my suggestion don’t put your political capital into the DNC. They dont know how to spend it. Form a new party and make them suffer. Tea partiers did it and reshaped the GOP. You won’t have the funding of right wing billionaires at first but if you get enough momentum they will be pouring in to try and shape things.
It’s all for naught though, once you start getting cheated out of every victory you fight for you’ll start sharpening the knife too.
A populist isn’t gonna save you from the toxicity of your society and the stupidity of your people. You guys deserve what you get
When she sat down on The View and said she wouldn’t change a thing compared to Biden that was a messaging problem. People can’t afford rent and grocery inflation is out of control and she thinks everything is fine and dandy? I voted for her but I’m kind of sick of being a perpetual afterthought who has been voting for the lesser of two evils for over 20 years. They dumped the working class in favor of chasing an imaginary pool of moderates and this is the result. Give us someone we can be passionate about and, even if they’re lying, at least pretend to tell us what we want to hear.
The problem with that was that she was actually answering the question, correctly and analytically. They actually made the right decisions, even if the supply chain was still a problem. Not much the president can do about that global problem.
even if they’re lying
Yeah you get it. She didn’t do the politician thing where you answer adjacently.
Grocery inflation is, in fact, not out of control: https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/inflation/current-inflation-rates/
I’m so tired of hearing that. But I guess that’s part of her messaging problem. She couldn’t get through to people looking at high prices and assuming they’re still rising.
People are not goldfish with minds that reset every year. Per your own link, accumulative inflation is up 21.8% since 2020.
Are they goldfish with minds that reset every four years?
No. If you would look at the graph in the link you posted, you would see that 2020 is right before the huge spike in inflation. This sustained spike explains the current outrage over increased prices.
There was a two year spike. If you look at the graph in the link I posted, you would see that prices have been mostly going up as normal for almost two years now. When are people going to adjust to their mindset to the current prices?
When I get a 22% pay increase ill consider it
To make people happy, I think it would take a return to a running average of 2%. This requires a temporary drop below 2%, perhaps even to 0 or negative. Otherwise, you’re just telling them to suck it up and embrace the new normal.
I’m not an economist, but from what I’ve heard in the past, 2% is basically ideal. Price deflation or inflation that’s too low can indicate problems with the economy. Maybe this situation is different since we had really high inflation a couple years ago. But either way, I think it’s unlikely that prices will drop. Kamala needed to promise super low taxes on the working class or something to make up for it.
Maybe it’s back down to “normal” inflation rates… But Kamala should have come out swinging to raise minimum wage to $25/hr, tie it to inflation, and mandating everyone get a 40% raise to counter the 40% inflation we’ve had since the last time minimum wage was raised. Something along those lines… As one thing in a long list of things she should have done… Sure it might have cost her the (checks notes) zero votes she was able to scrape off Trump’s boots, but that’s a sacrifice I’m willing to make.
I agree! Her messaging was terrible, and she didn’t know how to counter the “TRUMP LOW PRICES // KAMALA HIGH PRICES” ads.
Oh, it’s not out of control? Great! I could buy a pound of ground beef in 2019 for 4.99 and the price is now 8.99. Fuck, lucky me. It’s so in control!
Right but those are grocery prices not inflation.
Reducing inflation doesn’t mean prices go down.
You can be upset about the cost of living but the current rate of inflation is trending down so you’re going to have miscommunication if you demand it’s reduction when that is already happening.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/273418/unadjusted-monthly-inflation-rate-in-the-us/
That’s because low inflation does not mean prices come back down, which is what people expect. So technically inflation is not out of control. But prices are still high. That’s what people mean.
That’s exactly what I said.
Not really. Sorry but you’re playing pedantic with the terms. People say inflation to mean high prices.
It’s not pedantic. People just literally don’t understand what inflation means. Wage growth, apparently, has caught up to inflation, so it’s really just that people haven’t adjusted their mindset to the higher prices now. And they’re angry about it.
It’s not pedantic. People just literally don’t understand what inflation means
In almost everything there is the scientific or technical definition of the term, and then there is common parlance. People will never know the technical terms, just accept that because all you’re accomplishing is being pedantic.
How basic of terms should we give up on? Inflation is not a difficult concept. I would barely call it a technical term.
Food inflation is outpacing wage growth
People don’t give a shit what the CPI is
Their grocery runs cost more for less food, so there is a problem with wage growth or food prices that the Dems are not willing to acknowledge
Food prices are a component of CPI. Food inflation is also around 2%, which is like the ideal inflation rate: https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/inflation/food-inflation-in-the-united-states/
Note that it was out of control a couple years ago, which is why prices went way up. I haven’t looked at the statistics, but what I have heard is that wage growth, generally, has caught up to inflation, which includes food prices. This is still a feels over reals situation. People feel that their food is too expensive, and Republicans are way better at addressing the feels. One of my favorite signs around the neighborhood said “TRUMP LOW PRICES || KAMALA HIGH PRICES”. Like, yeah, that definitely makes sense. Well explained.
Sorry you have a hard time engaging with reality
Thanks for your condolences, SquatDingloid. Your contribution to this conversation has done wonders for the world.
If you were ever capable of self reflection you would delete your dumb propaganda posts
Sorry you have pride issues or whatever. As long as you refuse to educate yourself people will keep telling you this
Kind of needlessly aggressive. Why does having an opinion and stating literal facts make it propaganda? That’s not really a word we want to cheapen with a fascist regime incoming.
Grocery inflation is also a result of price gouging, not the economy.
But it’s not just grocery stores as everyone thinks. Prices are up all the way along the supply chain. Supplies, feed, and seed for farmers are way up too.
What do you think the economy is? It is made up of price gouging and parapsychology <yes I know that’s ghosts>
Its not out of control now, but that doesn’t cancel out previous high inflation rates on things. If people wages haven’t kept up then they may not be able.to still afford the standard of living they had a few years ago.
Republicans have a vision. Democrats have a list of policy proposals. Average people can grok the vision but since they read at a 6th grade level they don’t grok the policy proposals.
Democrats need to stop acting like nerds if they want more people to like them.
There was an era where the nerds placed up a facade to give the illusion of meritocracy and measured governance. Unfortunately that just drove a wedge between people and the “ruling class.” When it came out that bill was getting blowies in the oval office people’s brains broke and the facade was forever tarnished. Today, democrats still hide behind it and pretend like we don’t know they piss and shit like everyone else. The Republicans decided to erect a monument to trump their lord and savior, the only thing keeping them from being a foot note in the history books.
We need to look to our founders. Flawed in every way possible they did have one idea that we should still cherish. They believed in an america they could make by their own hands. They did, it sucked, it was also amazing somehow. We should be like them but be just as kind to our future as we are to the present.
But I was told it was just that our policy proposals weren’t left enough?
Unironically, you’re right. Most voters don’t vote based on any kind of coherent ideology. They vote on feels.
God help us all.
If the policy proposals were far left enough they’d start to look a helluva lot more like a vision.
Ha. There is that.
(I wasn’t sure whether to edit my comment or reply to your first post, so I’m putting this here)
As for people voting on feels: I think that’s always been the case for most people. Most people are of average intelligence, with an average education and average interest in politics. They’re gonna vote based on vibes, so you have to get the vibes right or the average person won’t vote for you.
And you can’t fake vibes by having a bunch of celebrities around.
They’re gonna vote based on vibes, so you have to get the vibes right or the average person won’t vote for you.
And you can’t fake vibes by having a bunch of celebrities around.
So why’d they vote for a rapist who is in pictures with goddamn Epstein? That’s the part I don’t understand. Are we seriously saying the average (American) is okay with a rapist being president because they like his vibes?
As far as I can tell, it’s not that people who would have otherwise voted for Kamala instead voted for Donald. It’s that people who would have otherwise voted for Kamala, including many of those who did vote for Biden, just stayed home. “We’ve got policy plans and whatever” yeah that would never make it to implementation through a gridlocked congress and a hostile supreme court.
They’re fucking weirdos with weird vibes.
I’m much more interested in the folks who didn’t vote.
Clinton 1 and Obama were our last successful Dem candidates. You need a charismatic candidate with a consistent message that speaks to everyone if you want to win the popularity contest. Gore, Clinton 2 and Harris failed on both of those counts. Biden won only because of pandemic and government abuse/mismanagement backlash, he would have lost to Trump in other circumstances.
Would be helpful if they had more than 3 months to convey it too.
In the immortal words of Bowling for Soup: “High school never ends.”
I want a country where everyone pays less for healthcare. If it can be done for seniors, why not everyone else?
I want a country where everyone’s private medical decisions remain between them and their doctor, without being cleared by your local, state, or federal representative or by a judge.
I want a country where everyone who works, pays taxes, and does not commit violent crime or property theft can stay and keep working without having to look over their shoulder.
I want a country where if you work full time, you can afford your rent/mortgage, put food on the table, start a family, and still be able to retire.
There’s a vision. Apparently all of these things have become radically progressive leftist positions and are attacked as such by the media and conservatives alike.
See, the problem with all of these ideas is that they’re at odds with the billionaires’ vision that you slave away in servitude to them, while their imaginary worth line goes up to infinity.
It’s really nothing more complex than that. And, as soon as the non-billionaire conservatives—your neighbors, your coworkers, the people you pass by every day—wake up and understand that they’re covered by that vision, too, the sooner things get better for all of us.
With capitalism, a middle class does not occur organically, it is created by the governing body through subsidies. If you do not subsidize a middle class there can be no middle class. This is fundamental. We really started to feel it in 2015 or so. I called it the squeeze. This tightening grip of not subsidies but further attempts to squeeze more and more blood from rocks.
Why? Our government has been subsidizing the wrong class for a while now. Trump did kick that up a notch the first time. The data is in. Trickle down economics doesn’t work.
As with a middle class, health care has to be subsidized. The governing body won’t allow richer people to pay the same taxes as the poorest of us so that will never happen.
And now Elon Musk is promising “hardship” going forward, as opposed to whatever this is the last 4 yrs, on us, the poorest, rather than paying mor taxes himself. Like that would impact his alien ass at all (he’s weirdly shaped, looks like a slightly melted wax museum figure, and was born into so much money he has no idea how humans live, that’s what I mean by alien). So don’t count on it ever happening going forward.
If you have preexisting conditions expect loss of coverage. And as a fallout from that expect the healthcare system to get slammed with much sicker people trying to find loopholes and other diagnoses so they can actually keep living and working.
The data is in. Trickle down economics doesn’t work.
It works for the rich. Relatedly, shitty economies where the government pumps tons of cash into rich people’s pockets also work for the rich. They inflate their assets with their additional government handouts and use those inflated asset prices to get loans to buy more mega yachts.
How the fuck do democrats win here then? After the Harris/Dump debate i feel like there was a lot of conjecture about how Harris didnt talk about policy enough. How do you get away with talking about policy but not “sounding like a nerd” to uneducated voters? See I think this is more about the average voter not being educated enough to understand the issues and the policies potential nominees have pertaining to them, or how their lives would be affected depending who/what they vote for.
Start offering policies that help average people. Run on medicare for all. Run on forcing pharmaceutical companies lowering drug prices. Run on building new factories to create solar panels, geothermal equipment, and wind turbines. Run on creating affordable housing and ending corporate landlords. Run on campaign finance reform with a promise of ending political ads that everyone hates.
The Democrats problem is tha they won’t do any of that because their donors dont want it. But as long as the DNC values their donorsore than their voters, they will continue to lose elections.
The Democrats problem is tha they won’t do any of that because their donors dont want it. But as long as the DNC values their donorsore than their voters, they will continue to lose elections.
The entire American political system we have is dependent on big money donors since citizens united. America has been an oligarchy since at least the early 2000s. You will not get a Democratic party with policies that vary wildly from what industrial heads and CEOs want simply by voting (or not) every 2-4 years. And even small deviations from what they want aren’t tolerated by many of the oligarchs (e.g. Elon Musk).
i feel like there was a lot of conjecture about how Harris didnt talk about policy enough
Yeah, from other nerds
The Democrats don’t win here.
Just like the Tea Party transformed the GOP, we need a Guillotine Party to drag the Democratic party to the electorate.
How about do basic stuff that people understand …
… like tax the hell out of billionaires and use the money on people in the country.
… stop financing overseas wars and use that free money on people in the country
… then just keep repeating and blasting everyone that all the money the government is collecting from rich idiots and not spending on war is being spent on everyone … rinse, repeat 10,000 times.
Yep. And there’s precedent for this. (Even though with this Supreme Court precedent counts for jack shit…)
Every time Bernie got asked a question he’d turn it around to mentioning the top 1% and how they’re fucking us over. And people liked him for it. I had MAGA hat folks tell me they liked him because of it back in 2016.
MAGA would say that and vote straight R
Yeah but they wouldn’t say that about anyone else I can think of. And we’re not trying to get MAGA, we’re trying to get people to fucking vote at all.
They’ll say that about anyone claiming to be an outsider.
If insiders have done fuck all except blow money up billionaires asses, who can blame voters for liking outsiders?
But Trump isn’t an outsider
Because the DNC sceapped those proposals for more neoliberal bullshit that every one hates. People are vocal about what they care about. If people tell me they want steak and i keep giving them tacos, they are going to leave the restaurant and get pizza from the sketchy local joint next door instead.
What proposals for what neoliberal bullshit.
Also neoliberal policies from a neoliberal party?!? Surely you jest!
If a neoliberal party can’t win 2 out of 3 elections against a fascist, maybe they should pivot away from neoliberalism.
To what exactly? Neoliberalism is left wing in this shit hole.
Don’t say progressive. If that was popular there would be more than two states that have a progressive party.
Republicans also like to defund public schools and or encourage people to go to religious private schools. That way they’re either too dumb to vote for policies, or too indoctrinated to vote for the candidate that isn’t promising Christian nationalism.
“You talk like a f*g” vibes
EDIT: Idiocracy.
Do they have a vision? The scary thing about Trump that it’s uncertain what he will do the next 4 years. Will he undo democracy or keep it? Will he continue to support Ukraine or not? Will he leave NATO or not? Will he impose those tariffs or not? Will he apply project 2025 or not? Will he impose a federal abortion ban or not?
Kamala had a clear but boring vision: 4 more years of the current status quo. Nothing new will happen.
It’s right there on the hat: Make America Great Again.
And the neat part is it’s so vague that people can project whatever they want onto it.
Well that part I’m aware of, but that’s more of a slogan rather than a vision. It doesn’t tell what has gone wrong with America and how to fix it. Trump says a lot of things that sometimes contradict each other or may or may not be taken seriously, so it’s difficult to piece together a concrete vision.
They have a concept of a vision so to say.
He has concepts of a plan
you are incorrect.
Republicans are scared of brown people, and they cried about it.
democrats closed the border, reformed border control, and have set up a rational immigration system to allow as many legal immigrants into the country as the system can provide for and integrate into the US economy.
Republicans are scared of vaccines, and they cried about it.
democrats got vulnerable populations vaccinated.
Republicans are afraid of other countries exports, and they cried about it.
democrats increased employment, supported domestic businesses and funded domestic production.
Republicans quake in their boots, democrats take action.
Republicans won the last election.
Democrats… didn’t.
dems won the election before that.
Wow that’s so helpful right now
i know. that’s why I wrote it.
Democrats have a list of milquetoast, bottom of the barrel obvious stuff that they hope could show bipartisanship, and even then they half-ass it. There is real fixing that needs to get done, but the side they isn’t actively making things worse has no will to actually do it.
Democrat: *pushes up glasses, adjusts pocket protector* “Um, we propose to implement a 2-10% excise tax on health insurance plans which will allow us to increase access to Medicare by 16% according to these models.”
Voters: “I just want health care.”
Exactly. Tiny bullshit, when they should be talking universal healthcare
And I’d take some incremental improvements as long as their explanation of what happened ended with “this gets us closer to our goal of universal single payer.”
She didn’t? I believe that’s exactly what she came across as when she said she wouldn’t do anything different if she were to call the shots instead of Biden and also reminded everyone she signed off on most of his decisions. Sure, she lost votes because of sexism as well, but instead of fresh air she chose to bring stale coffin smell to the fart battle and lost to the stink Trump was all too happy to discharge. And that coffin did smell of a old white dude, let me tell you.
That being said, for such a gigantic loss against someone as obnoxious as Trump, there had to be a lot of factors in play. Sexism and stagnation of the party being just a tip of the iceberg.
The problem is the Democrats are scared to push back hard, they try to move to the right to capture moderate voters, and then lose 10x as many voters to the left who don’t care enough to vote because the Democrats are trying to make concessions with absolute lunatics.
The DNC seems like it just doesn’t have a spine. Doesn’t matter now, it’s all fucked and it’s too late.
She literally called him a fascist. It’s that not enough pushback?
Honestly it’s fucking not. Call him a rapist pedophile, call him Jeffery Epsteins other woman, say some shit that will piss him off and once he’s mad he crumbles on stage and has a melt down.
Like seriously, they try hard to be polite and I get she was a prosecutor but that doesn’t mean she has to talk like a lawyer when calling out a child raping, tax evading, democracy overthrowing felon.
People don’t care about shit like that. They want to know what you are gonna do to make their lives better.
And no matter what, nothing that is said will be listened to.
She literally allowed him to walk the streets for 4 years after an insurrection, accepted endorsements from war criminals, and snubbed her nose to millions of people who were aghast at a genocide being committed on the other side of the world by a government that supported her opponent with every tool it had.
This defeat was not guaranteed, it was earned.
Not if she promotes similar fascist ideas like deporting immigrants and funding genocide.
Harris is missing 10 million votes that Biden got in 2020. It looks like many of those 10 million were suburban men who didn’t vote Trump, just sat on the couch. misogyny is a viable explanation for this because otherwise you’ll have to explain why Biden set the left on fire, or why Biden was so inspirational to men.
She lost the scrote vote, simple as that.
Some of it is 100% misogyny, I think some of it is also that 4 years ago the country was literally on fire in a lot of places and Trump was obviously to blame for a lot of it, so it didn’t matter so much to apathetic voters if Biden’s messaging was weak. Kamala may have won then too, though misogyny would have made it closer. Now the country is much more stable but still not great, but Democrats are in charge and therefore obviously to blame, so people who largely haven’t been affected negatively by the Republicans (e.g. men, especially non-desperately-poor white men), are apathetic again
White Dudes For Harris musta been like 300 dudes.
The main problem is that Democrats do not have a propaganda machine like the Republicans do. It does not matter what the message is if it constantly gets drowned out by the unceasing flood of propaganda coming from the right.
The right isn’t the problem. Our problem is a lack of a left. The Tea Party managed to resuscitate the GOP about 4 terms ago. We need a Guillotine Party to drag the Democrats away from corporate American and back to the electorate.
The Tea Party was an astro turf campaign created by the propaganda machine I spoke off. It was funded and promoted by the Koch billionaires.
It was funded and promoted by
the Koch billionaires.the second estate.FTFY. Reduced it to a previously solved problem.
The lack of a left isn’t the problem. It’s the left rejecting the center that’s the problem.
I thought that too, until Harris ran a centrist campaign, and it turned out that American politics has become so polarized that there is no center.
We’re primed for a militant leftist party.
The fundamental issue is that people don’t think the system works.
The Democrats have been padding themselves on the back all this time that they follow the rules. So, their message is more like the system does work and is in fact fair if you just follow the rules.
People are tired of that.
Okay but this post would imply Trump is white.
I’d need to crank up the color temperature on his photos quite a bit to achieve that.
