• Stoneykins@lemmy.one
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    75
    arrow-down
    8
    ·
    edit-2
    1 year ago

    They are talking about karma as a thing you could collect, point totals for all posts added together displayed on your profile. Not the voting mechanism itself.

    • 𝙣𝙪𝙠𝙚@yah.lol
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      52
      ·
      1 year ago

      Lemmy also has this and everyone’s point totals are visible from the API. If you’re not seeing it, that’s because your client is hiding it, not because it doesn’t exist.

      • Rentlar@lemmy.ca
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        20
        ·
        edit-2
        1 year ago

        The nice thing is though, it’s different for every server and from every server, so unless you follow a convention to say the user’s homeserver vote total is the definitive amount, then there’s no true karma.

        My beehaw account is a great example. I made some comments on Lemmy world before it defederated. World and shitjustworks users can still vote on the old comments but they won’t count to my home total, and from Lemmy.world my vote total won’t change for that account significantly from that point. The vote totals on this lemmy.ca account will be different from lemmy.ca, beehaw.org or lemmy.world’s perspectives because the servers defederated can’t see the karma I earned on each comment on the other server, while lemmy.ca can see both.

        Downvotes are also disabled on beehaw, so any downvotes won’t affect my total at all but could show on other servers.

        Lastly, there are some servers with 40000 accounts and 3 active users (who post and comment), vote botting is feasibly a thing. Imagine if I made a Lemmy server at Rentlar.org and as the admin I made 20000 accounts who upvote me every where I post. I’d be the first user on Lemmy with 1M total votes, but would that mean anything other than I’m a somewhat tech-savvy narcissistic loser? No.

      • Stoneykins@lemmy.one
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        11
        arrow-down
        4
        ·
        1 year ago

        I believe the devs have said they aren’t going to make it officially visible, which is all I care about. If you want to make value judgements on people based on a number so bad that you had to find a client that shows it, more power to you.

      • Stoneykins@lemmy.one
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        7
        arrow-down
        2
        ·
        1 year ago

        I hadn’t thought about it until just now but IDK if that number is accurate. My instance doesn’t have downvotes, so if you view my profile from lemmy.one it might look like I have a higher karma than if you look from lemmy.world, I’m not sure.

        Take it all wirh a grain of salt I say

        • DMmeYourNudes@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          3
          arrow-down
          7
          ·
          1 year ago

          It wasn’t important on Reddit. Even there you could only lose 15 points on any downvoted comment and you couldn’t lose points for posts. Karma was just a way to measure how frequently you interacted in an additive way. It’s only real utility was for mods to bar new accounts from posting without getting come karma from other places first. and Lemmy definitely needs something like that in the near future for moderation, but they have to fix the bug with the total first.

    • DMmeYourNudes@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      15
      arrow-down
      10
      ·
      1 year ago

      And that system was irrelevant on Reddit just like it is here. You still have a total karma number in the API, every app I have used shows it, even if it is broken right now. Only the default theme on the web page hides the number. The only people who saw value in karma are the people who farmed it and the people who removed about the people who farmed it. Either way, making posts that get a lot of upvotes specifically to get a lot of upvotes happens here just like I does on Reddit so idk what this OP is trying to say because they’re farming karma lol.

      • Stoneykins@lemmy.one
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        21
        arrow-down
        3
        ·
        edit-2
        1 year ago

        There were many subreddits that did not allow participation unless someone had a karma over a certain threshold. For many of them the threshold was pretty low, only meant to stop brand new accounts and trolls, but still.

        Additionally, the “people who farmed it” often did so because a reddit account with a high karma score was literally worth money to adspammers and people running bots.

        The karma system contributed to what made reddit bad.

        • DMmeYourNudes@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          3
          arrow-down
          20
          ·
          1 year ago

          You only lost 15 karma on any mass downvoted comment and 0 for posts. The only person who cared about people’s karma was you dude.

          • Stoneykins@lemmy.one
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            18
            arrow-down
            2
            ·
            1 year ago

            I don’t see how that addresses any of what I said. If anything this seems like this would mean the subreddits that blocked people with no karma weren’t even doing it to block trolls, just new users.

            I didn’t care about my karma or any specific persons, I like to get into arguments about stuff and that is how you get downvoted. I just don’t like the behaviour a karma system motivated.

            • DMmeYourNudes@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              1
              arrow-down
              17
              ·
              1 year ago

              If you’re getting downvoted in an argument, guess what, that means you’re bad at making arguments. And this system is exactly the same, regardless of if you can see it or not, sorting by top will still sort by the net sum of votes.

              • Stoneykins@lemmy.one
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                11
                arrow-down
                2
                ·
                1 year ago

                I mean, generally getting downvoted in an argument is a matter of course, at least until people who you aren’t arguing with chime in.

                Also a lot of what you are saying doesn’t really make sense to me? I feel like I’m not sure we agree what we disagree about.

                Honestly the shit I got downvoted the most for was just standing up for trans people, reddit is full of transphobes.

                • DMmeYourNudes@lemmy.world
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  arrow-down
                  9
                  ·
                  1 year ago

                  You really don’t seem to understand the mechanics of link aggregators and their comment sections. The votes are for curating content and downvoting posts that are not relevant or are poor quality is the entire point of the system. If you remove the ability to downvote bad content, you degrade the content for all the users. This is exactly why YouTube removing the dislike counter was an issue.

                  • Stoneykins@lemmy.one
                    link
                    fedilink
                    arrow-up
                    8
                    arrow-down
                    3
                    ·
                    1 year ago

                    You already said the youtube thing.

                    Upvoting posts that are relevant or good quality and ignoring the rest does work though. There are several instances right now where it is working.

                    It works perfectly fine as a content curation method. I have no way to prove this for this, but it wouldn’t surprise me if it works better.

              • LegionEris@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                10
                arrow-down
                1
                ·
                1 year ago

                If you’re getting downvoted in an argument, guess what, that means you’re bad at making arguments.

                I pretty much agree with your second sentence/point, but this is bullshit. I got so many downvotes on reddit for literal descriptions of my perceptions and experiences as a gay woman. Half the time there wasn’t even a debate or argument happening. As reddit culture skewed more and more conservative, many technical and nerdy communities became actively hostile to the basic facts of my existence. Then there are all the downvotes I got for believing in human and minority rights while downthread with some bigots. My more visible posts on the same topic would be solidly upvoted, while everything below the arrow was smashed below zero because only angry little shits followed the discussion that far. I agree that the system on Lemmy isn’t meaningfully different and will inevitably have the same effects, but sorting by voting over-centralizes the meta and destroys real discussion and diversity of experience and opinion. It literally only works in limited circumstances within subjects that have objectively correct answers. Anywhere else it introduces so much chaos.

                • DMmeYourNudes@lemmy.world
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  2
                  arrow-down
                  6
                  ·
                  1 year ago

                  I’m not saying people don’t pick sides in an argument, but the point is to convince someone you’re right, so if you’re not doing that, you’re getting downvotes meaning you’re either wasting your time or making bad arguments.

                  • LegionEris@lemmy.world
                    link
                    fedilink
                    arrow-up
                    8
                    arrow-down
                    1
                    ·
                    1 year ago

                    I’m not saying people don’t pick sides in an argument

                    What I’m saying is that these weren’t arguments. These were people weaponizing the voting system to keep minorities from self representing. I was downvoted below zero on a car repair sub for having runflats instead of a spare because I worked in and commuted through a bad part of town, often after midnight, where I wouldn’t feel safe stopping to change my tire. They made it clear that I was unwelcome because I am a woman, because my description of this gendered experience was unacceptable subreddit content.