Did people actually change what they’d say based on whether or not they thought they’d get upvotes? I always just said what I wanted and used the karma to determine how popular of an opinion it was, so pretty much exactly how Lemmy works now. I don’t think I ever looked at my overall account karma on Reddit.
how do people on this site not realize that the points next to your posts affect how your posts are sorted and are literally the exact same system as reddit? am i just so blind that i can actually see the numbers next to my posts or is everyone here just trying to be so anti-reddit they’ll make up bullshit that isn’t reality?
They are talking about karma as a thing you could collect, point totals for all posts added together displayed on your profile. Not the voting mechanism itself.
Lemmy also has this and everyone’s point totals are visible from the API. If you’re not seeing it, that’s because your client is hiding it, not because it doesn’t exist.
The nice thing is though, it’s different for every server and from every server, so unless you follow a convention to say the user’s homeserver vote total is the definitive amount, then there’s no true karma.
My beehaw account is a great example. I made some comments on Lemmy world before it defederated. World and shitjustworks users can still vote on the old comments but they won’t count to my home total, and from Lemmy.world my vote total won’t change for that account significantly from that point. The vote totals on this lemmy.ca account will be different from lemmy.ca, beehaw.org or lemmy.world’s perspectives because the servers defederated can’t see the karma I earned on each comment on the other server, while lemmy.ca can see both.
Downvotes are also disabled on beehaw, so any downvotes won’t affect my total at all but could show on other servers.
Lastly, there are some servers with 40000 accounts and 3 active users (who post and comment), vote botting is feasibly a thing. Imagine if I made a Lemmy server at Rentlar.org and as the admin I made 20000 accounts who upvote me every where I post. I’d be the first user on Lemmy with 1M total votes, but would that mean anything other than I’m a somewhat tech-savvy narcissistic loser? No.
Wait why is downvoting disabled on beehaw?
because being negative isn’t allowed there.
You are pretty much correct. Although the moderation is very strict, it makes for a more laid back and friendly experience.
its real laid back because there’s so few people there.
Sounds kinda boring actually.
Lemmy also has that bro. Some clients display it and some don’t, but when I click on your name I see that you have 510 total comment score and 0 total post score.
https://i.imgur.com/NxSyRDg_d.webp?maxwidth=760&fidelity=grand
I believe the devs have said they aren’t going to make it officially visible, which is all I care about. If you want to make value judgements on people based on a number so bad that you had to find a client that shows it, more power to you.
I hadn’t thought about it until just now but IDK if that number is accurate. My instance doesn’t have downvotes, so if you view my profile from lemmy.one it might look like I have a higher karma than if you look from lemmy.world, I’m not sure.
Take it all wirh a grain of salt I say
It’s that important tho? There had to be a reason why it isn’t the norm
It’s probably just lazy coding. Or it’s a road map feature.
It wasn’t important on Reddit. Even there you could only lose 15 points on any downvoted comment and you couldn’t lose points for posts. Karma was just a way to measure how frequently you interacted in an additive way. It’s only real utility was for mods to bar new accounts from posting without getting come karma from other places first. and Lemmy definitely needs something like that in the near future for moderation, but they have to fix the bug with the total first.
And that system was irrelevant on Reddit just like it is here. You still have a total karma number in the API, every app I have used shows it, even if it is broken right now. Only the default theme on the web page hides the number. The only people who saw value in karma are the people who farmed it and the people who removed about the people who farmed it. Either way, making posts that get a lot of upvotes specifically to get a lot of upvotes happens here just like I does on Reddit so idk what this OP is trying to say because they’re farming karma lol.
There were many subreddits that did not allow participation unless someone had a karma over a certain threshold. For many of them the threshold was pretty low, only meant to stop brand new accounts and trolls, but still.
Additionally, the “people who farmed it” often did so because a reddit account with a high karma score was literally worth money to adspammers and people running bots.
The karma system contributed to what made reddit bad.
You only lost 15 karma on any mass downvoted comment and 0 for posts. The only person who cared about people’s karma was you dude.
I don’t see how that addresses any of what I said. If anything this seems like this would mean the subreddits that blocked people with no karma weren’t even doing it to block trolls, just new users.
I didn’t care about my karma or any specific persons, I like to get into arguments about stuff and that is how you get downvoted. I just don’t like the behaviour a karma system motivated.
If you’re getting downvoted in an argument, guess what, that means you’re bad at making arguments. And this system is exactly the same, regardless of if you can see it or not, sorting by top will still sort by the net sum of votes.
If you’re getting downvoted in an argument, guess what, that means you’re bad at making arguments.
I pretty much agree with your second sentence/point, but this is bullshit. I got so many downvotes on reddit for literal descriptions of my perceptions and experiences as a gay woman. Half the time there wasn’t even a debate or argument happening. As reddit culture skewed more and more conservative, many technical and nerdy communities became actively hostile to the basic facts of my existence. Then there are all the downvotes I got for believing in human and minority rights while downthread with some bigots. My more visible posts on the same topic would be solidly upvoted, while everything below the arrow was smashed below zero because only angry little shits followed the discussion that far. I agree that the system on Lemmy isn’t meaningfully different and will inevitably have the same effects, but sorting by voting over-centralizes the meta and destroys real discussion and diversity of experience and opinion. It literally only works in limited circumstances within subjects that have objectively correct answers. Anywhere else it introduces so much chaos.
I mean, generally getting downvoted in an argument is a matter of course, at least until people who you aren’t arguing with chime in.
Also a lot of what you are saying doesn’t really make sense to me? I feel like I’m not sure we agree what we disagree about.
Honestly the shit I got downvoted the most for was just standing up for trans people, reddit is full of transphobes.
Karma is the total of upvotes and downvotes a user receives over time not just single posts and comments. It leads to discrimantory moderation and users tend to removed themselves out for upvotes to boast.
Ever heard of gallowboob?and this site has that exact mechanic in the API.
It wasn’t a 1upvote=1karma system on Reddit. Mostly, Lemmy does it better by the community caring less and not having posts limited if a user is under a threshold.
Arguably one difference is that on lemmy it’s just a straight up sum AFAIK, while on reddit there are some algorithms attached to tweak things so you can’t lose vast amounts of karma from a single shit comment and such.
you can only lose 15 points for a comment and 0 for a post. the only thing they do is they jitter the total points to fight botting. its designed to make karma a representation of content given, not necessarily that you have a high hit rate.
The initial point of the karma system was to push to the top of discussions relevant information while the shitposts were put at the bottom. It works sometimes, sometimes it doesn’t.
I think, honestly, politics is the biggest issue here when it comes to the karma system and it doesn’t work well at all within it, but for many other things it’s actually a decent system and a good way to find relevant information in a thread without reading through 500 pages on a forum or something
Just my 2 pennies
i left reddit to get rid of condescending ass comments like this baby whiney complaining garbage bullshit right here. what the fuck
Reddit bad lemmy good, you are not allowed to say otherwise.
Edit: Bruh people on lemmy don’t get sarcasm either 😭
You can on reddit say what you want. If you really care about the number next to your name you’re just a victim
I never changed my opinion just so I get more karma on reddit either.
Lemmy’s system is no different from Reddit’s and my original comment was sarcastic. I’ve noticed sarcastic posts without /s get downvoted more easily on Lemmy for whatever reason.
There’s a lot more good faith here. On Reddit you could safely assume anything ridiculous was meant sarcastically, and usually be correct. Here, the sarcasm is not assumed so your comment is more likely to be judged as having been spoken sincerely.
Which is actually really nice, even if it gets a comment misunderstood from time to time. Reddit just feels shitty and hate-filled anymore. But Lemmy feels a great deal more emotionally neutral, and if I dare say so, human – which is to say, not attempting to increase emotional involvement and generate clicks by being provocative and antagonizing by design.
EDITED for clarity
Yes, its why “/s” exists. (Even if some dont like it)
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Literally seen 0 people asking for karma system
Also karma on Reddit is basically irrelevant. The only place it matters is in automoderation removing posts and comments for users under a certain level of karma.
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People will do strange things rather extensively to watch arbitrary numbers go up. Especially children.
Watching numbers go up is basically the whole gameplay loop of an ARPG. It’s fun.
Getting upvotes maybe, but nobody pays attention to their aggregate karma.
Not to be mean but, ritch folk dont watch their bank account directly, they have analog wasy of mesuring, like if they can buy “X” without renting.
Sure, that’s what I’m saying though. Anyone who posts regularly has enough karma that it makes no material difference. It’s one of those measures with high specificity when you have negative or low karma and almost no specificity once you get beyond some arbitrary minimum.
Karma’s return diminishes almost completely after you hit the bare minimum required not to get automoderated.
Really good response, i just relized we were never in disagreement
Posting comics on Reddit, I found it a quick way to see how well I made something and what people generally liked. Eventually though I started to become a little skeptical of the numbers, and hated having to play this game where those numbers might be better when posting at different times and different days. I couldn’t help but feel like some of them were bought initially to heat, or boost their posts.
I started to absolutely loathe those numbers, but I don’t know what you can do to replace them.
Which is honestly freaking dumb. Sure you can do it with a big community but it will speed up the hivemind and alienate new users and frankly did nothing to curb bots because bots just farmed karma elsewhere on a sub where it was open by spamming posts and comments. And then went right back on the “threshold” subs.
You need Karma, in so many subs. Not only comments karma, also posts karma and all that stupid shit
I once wanted to post a meme on r/memes. My post got removed because I needed a lot more karma (my estimation was that I needed 1k each for both comments and posts but it wouldn’t actually tell me how much I needed). I REALLY hope that doesn’t appear here. It just blocks people from making and sharing content with others.
Why are u getting downvoted?
Probably people from Reddit defending the idea of a karma system, they always say that they’re made up internet points but the fact that Karma restrictions exist and are enforceable proves that wrong.
I mean, upvotes are counted and tracked so how is that different than karma?
Shhh let them just enjoy it for now
On reddit, if your karma is too low you’re not allowed to participate in most communities.
I mean, it’s a super low bar.
If i was, say interested in r/choosingbeggers, id annoy the crap out of any small ungated sub with “I agree” till I get my 100 karma.
Update: i don’t remember writing this
There’s currently nothing stopping a mod from creating a bot to do the same. Maybe it’s already a thing.
You don’t have a score.
I guess it depends on what interface you’re using.
I’ll dissent. I like the karma system. It gives me a quick read out of who’s a troll and who isn’t.
I don’t care about post karma so much, but the comment karma was an interesting stat.
Edit: An important caveat. We MUST keep downvotes visible. MUST. Having just a positive score breeds absolute insanity.
Negative karma doesn’t necessarily indicate a troll, any unpopular opinion can get down-voted to hell while similar but differently expressed ideas get up-voted in the same thread. I’m not against karma system though, just think it’s quite useless in most cases.
All comment karma tells you is who was first to a thread basically in my experience, and I had over 500k of it lol it’s nothing though I could go troll for days before making a dent in the 10k you get from an obvious joke on the new tab and then the thread takes off
Best way to tell if someone is a troll is just to look at what they say imo 🤷🏻♂️
I had my third party app and browser extensions set to automatically hide comments by people with very low karma and very low comment scores. I’d only ever see hateful comments if I clicked to unhide them and I liked that
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You forgot about the baby eaters in your list of people you dislike.
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I find it funny you had a list instead of just saying harmful people. It was a joke.
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Idk I felt like above a certain point karma was just an indication that that person knew how to game the system and play nice with reddit.
I like how it is on lemmy. I feel like downvotes/upvotes prompt conversations. You’re at 47/6 and it doesn’t really matter to me, it just shows that people might not totally agree and then I’m hopeful that they have left a comment.
I think it’s also possible that the voting system on reddit was effective at marginalizing people.
You can only lose about 100karma in one comment thread so if a troll can get one high upvote comment it can counteract literally 100’s of negative comments.
Doesnt lemmy have a karma system already? I can see up votes on my posts, and a sum total on my account page.
Or do you mean something else by “karma”?
Karma was pointless. Nobody cared at all. Upvotes and downvotes are fine and useful to be able to see both. Karma is a worthless system and encourages spamming low-effort garbage memes and endless reposting of the same shit.
It gave me a pointless feeling of pride and accomplishment. Which was exactly what I did not need.
Getting downloaded here I can see that their sentiment against my point, but it doesn’t really piss me off. On Reddit I get angry and try to defend myself It was a really huge waste of time.
wait, you can get downloaded here?
Turns out, I would download a person. Take that, record companies!
I wish someone would download me nyaaa 💕
Sometimes when I’m alone I download myself.
The karma also added points from all the awards on reddit. So a troll comment with lots of awards received more karma points than the actual post with real good content.
Near the end I had a bunch of coins, so I would find the most juvenile joke I could and give them gold or something, I enjoyed the thought that it could be their first gilded comment and it was a comment saying poop or something stupid like that.
NGL for me atleast it was a good system to sort out the low effert users by putting a minimum karma points
Nobody cared at all
The mods cared. There were many bots used by moderators that relied on karma, the main one being automoderator.
I marked your name.
This ain’t a shit post.
Once there is a karma system in place I’m gonna vote you down to oblivion.
deal
Is that like the new “cope”? I can’t keep up with you young wipper snappers and your hip lingo
It means “it’s a deal”, and I’m pretty sure it’s been around for a long time.
Some mighty big words for someone with only 97 karma
How so? I use connect and wasn’t aware of a karma system
Connect for Lemmy on Android has the karma system in place already
Give me the IP of the provider and i’m make him disappear. Thanks.
127.0.0.1
Man, he’s behind a firewall. Can’t get past it.
He backattacks immediately and my pc turns off.
Not one time on reddit did i consider or care about my karma
I saved up 14 years worth of karma on Reddit and traded it in for…nothing, because that’s what it’s worth in the real world.
i got about 60K comment karma which meant I could sell my account for about 500 bucks. I didn’t because I didn’t want that username doing bad stuff, but it was interesting to see it’s value isn’t quite 0.
Had no clue you could sell a reddit acct…doesn’t surprise me though.
I’m against any sort of gamification on social media. Not even achievements/badges or awards. That is the start of dark patterns and addictive design.
Exactly. It feels rewarding to receive karma but that dopamine rush is actually what Instagram, TikTok and all the other corporate-driven platforms out there are exploiting. We don’t need that here.
I agree. The karma system really pushes group think.
I like being able to say what I want without being banned by a power-tripping mod, or downvoted into irrelevance by a circle jerk. We need to be able to point out that the Emperor isn’t wearing clothes.
Does karma change that? We still have upvotes and downvotes, and you can sort comments by how well they do, and mods can still ban people not only from a community, but from a whole instance.
Yes
How so?
Abolitely 100%. This is not R and people should stop talking about R and stop fucking trying to make it more like R was.
R still exists, anyone who wants that can go back to that shithole.
This is the weird web. A return to a time before it was taken over by 4 major corporations.
Fuck R, fly your freak flags, people!
Well except for those who are here because of a bullshit Reddit ban, but my attitude towards that is “You can’t fire me I quit”
We’re free of the mundanes, I can say what I want as long as I’m not being toxic af! No auto-moderator is going to flag me for using “Ableist Langauge” because I can’t keep with what terms have and haven’t been considered “problematic”
I mean, the word “removed”, obviously (God what places on the Corpo Net can you say THAT word nowadays?), that’s not cool to say. But seriously I had one auto-mod flag me for saying “crazy” because it was “offensive to the mentally unwell”
removed I’m bi-polar and literally autistic, I AM mentally unwell, I think I have an n-word pass in this instance… Not that I should need one to say “crazy”
Yes. It’s like saying you’ve moved on, while talking about your ex every chance you have.
Still, IMO, ideas should be considered no matter where they come from. They can just be dismissed.
I feel like it might be bit close-minded to think there might not be anything good to learn/implement. The core still has some Aaron Swartz in it.
I like being able to say what I want without being banned by a power-tripping mod
There’s currently nothing stopping a mod from creating a bot that deletes comments below certain threshold or that bans users for commenting on communities they don’t approve like they did on Reddit. Only site policies can prevent that.
I hope this doesn’t become a bot driven cesspool like reddit
Ugh… I remember the “Sorry you have been banned from…” messages, it was amusing when I was banned from subreddits I hadn’t heard of.
Thing is Reddit policies are supposed to make it so you can’t be banned from one subreddit for your reputation or behavior in another, I actually told a mod this and he just laughed at me.
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Site policies can prevent that kind of behavior in that particular site. It’s better than nothing.
r/MegadethFansInTheWild
You are free of that awful place
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Jeerybooree intensifies
Did karma ever stop anyone from posting their racist, hateful shit on the other site?
