President Volodymyr Zelensky left the White House early without signing a mineral deal with the United States following a heated exchange with President Donald Trump on Feb. 28.
Zelensky departed in his motorcade around 1:45 p.m. local time, without holding a joint news conference scheduled for later in the day, after the two leaders got into a heated argument while speaking with journalists in the Oval Office.
. . .
CNN reported that following the exchange, Zelensky and Trump left to separate rooms, with the Ukrainian delegation wanting to continue talks with the Trump administration.
Trump later ordered his officials to tell the Ukrainian officials to leave the White House, despite protest from the Ukrainian delegation.
“Heated exchange”.
What are they talking about?? An exchange requires at least two participants. Zelenskyy was trying to keep it cool while Trump and Vance (mainly Trump) just spoke over him. That wasn’t a heated exchange, it was a fucking loser having a tantrum while others watched, not quite believing what they were seeing. Having Trump keep talking about Zelenskyy basically being responsible for his citizens dying and bullets flying etc made me sick. The absolute lack of compassion from this orange twerp is incredible. What a cunt.
I have never been more ashamed to be an American, and have felt like I’m saying this increasingly often. This dude is a man of his people coming to hope and keep aid to be able to fight Putin and these dudes ridiculed and heckled him. They were giving him shit for not wearing a suit. Fucking assholes. Anyone who keeps up knows that’s for good reason. He’s showing solidarity with the soldiers, his citizens, that are fighting for their god damned homes and families. This deal was never going to go. It was a setup for Trump and Vance to stroke their pathetic micro penis egos. Fucking disgraceful.
It’s people sitting there that just a year ago condemned Russia, but now since Putin bought the little goblin emperor or seduced him or whatever, all sycophant now turn their coat to secure a spot in his fascist dictatorship.
People will soon start to be killed and hunted and if you are not ready it will be hell. You can never know if the narcissist mythomaniac in the god emperor position chooses an attribute you have for eradication. Nobody can be safe. He may slay his own staff or innocents at any moment. You can not be safe until you reacquire your union from this insane death cult. Rise, or if not at least gtfo while you can. Mark my words, soon, people will start to die. We can know this from how unphased the self proclaimed genius is when zel mentions the kids being raped, and nothing is said about it being wrong. At all nothing wrong with invading breaking international war crimes, obviously letting soldiers ransack, rape, and compulsively against his now meaningless signature breaking ceasefire, within hours. With hate in his heart and an iron grip on his people he too is a bruised ego that transformed into a psychopath warlord lacking humanity the last hope of which he lost decades ago.
And how quickly the sycophants all fall in line, unanimously showing zero respect for the slaughtered children and soldiers. Not even a single sycophant in the room reacts when zel points out that they are defending their homeland. They are not the aggressor. The god emperor never speaks ill of the aggressor. He makes his choice clear. He is extorting zel with his ability to reduce weapon support. Then he says zel plays with ww3. It’s typical cluster b narcissistic destructive psychosis. It’s openly they show they want to cultivate their oligarchy and become a dictatorship. They even do not hide it. But they do try to make a little theatre. They have shut down all ability to reflect.
The sick emperor has a weaker grasp of his own language. The manchild emperor doesn’t even understand his obligation to defend the baltics, or probably even where they are. He doesn’t understand what zel is saying. He replies with poorly written messages meaning nothing meant only to boost and pretend he is responsible for everything good even small petty obviously fabricated claims. he chooses he has done or thought out, and proudly shuts of his own ability to reflect on any failure cementing his ignorance and frustratingly meager capability to grasp real reality. Everything he fails is a misunderstanding. He randomly spouts a year to look educated on the conflict. To the man leading his country that is being attacked. About when the first attack came. It is so bizarrely evil and dangerous that you let this mentally ill decide the fate of so many while blaming the victims themselves. It is insane. The disgusting emperor even can not figure out after so many years that the terrorist warlord he has been seduced by and became a fan of, has been killing and plans to kill anyone in his way, using war crimes and other insane weapons despite promising not to. He thinks he will be in the oligarchy, a part of the 10 people that is in the dictatorship. He will not. Because he is easy to fool.
So embarrassing, yeah, but also, in the meantime cruise missiles are continually falling, and the only one that can stop that is fucking usa air defense or the psychopath himself and they chose to not speak ill of the killers even for a second, but lambasts zel for insane shit such as not saying thanks, when he has said it several times.
It was political ambush. A theatrical performance of poorest quality. The senile dictator has only pure childish fear inside. A fear of becoming irrelevant. This drives him to clinical mythomania. Please be careful and stay safe.
What is even worse than how embarrassing this is, is that it’s impossible for me to tell if this was Putin’s idea or just a fortunate side effect of his stooge’s lead-addled and dying brain.
France should gift a bunch of nukes to Ukraine. Seriously the EU lacks the manufacturing capacity to properly arm Ukraine without US deliveries and keep their own stockpiles at an adequate levels.
Europe should call ruzi bluff with immediate boots on the ground pushing ruzkies back to the border. Secure the airspace and fucking fry the orcs. Done with minimal european casualties.
Everyone’s pissing in the boot while Europe suffers economic and cultural damage that will indirectly kill many more people than a swift defense would have.
This is how WW3 starts.
It’s how WW3 ends.
No, this is how you deal with russians.
Believe it or not, their whole foreign policy posture is about keeping people scared and allowing them to control the initiative.
All they gotta do is start drone striking Russian oligarch vacation homes
And sinking any remaining yachts.
All of Putins homes. All at once.
No, that’s how it’s prevented. Putin cannot endure a united Europe entering the fray.
Europe cannot win a war against Russia alone. There’s ammo for a full month of war. Good luck.
You have no concept of reality if you believe russia has a chance against NATO.
I’m not talking about NATO. I’m talking about Europe on its own. You need to work on your reading comprehension.
I know what you wrote.
Are you aware of NATO’s article 5?
Russia can’t win a war against one smaller neighbour with everything it has. Putin cannot handle a dogpile. He also has to concern himself with nukes.
Spin up your production. Buy a bunch of our ammo. It’ll be in better hands.
Europe isn’t alone. Ukraine has your back.
Possibly, but unlikely. There is a more likely scenario:
If the Russia wins in Ukraine and manages to take over the whole country, it will be emboldened and will attack another country quite soon. Maybe we will let the Russia have that country as well, after which the Russia will attack once another country. Each time it will be more experienced and stronger. At some point we’ll decide we have to stop the Russia, and then we’re likely to have WW3.
Putin is a master of bluff. But a funny thing is that that’s the only thing he’s good at. And that’s the only thing he does. Which means that we know that everything he ever claims is always bluff. He is very afraid of taking actual decisions, and any red lines he claims to have are all just bluff. He won’t react to anything.
The only way to escalate with the Russia is to be inactive. The more inactivity you show, the more the Russia feels safe to attack. The more activity you show against the Russia, the less it dares to act.
It scares me that people fail to understand this. Look, no one is suggesting that Americans, or other NATO countries should put their “boots on the ground” in the Ukraine war. But fuck, give them all the weapons they need asap. Stop being a bunch of pussies in deciding whether to give weapons to Ukraine or not. If they had gotten all the weapons they needed sooner, there’s a good chance this war would have been over.
The wording is so insane to me. Like he was just begging to sign that deal. lol
There’s no way he was going to sign it. He didn’t come to the US to sign it. He came here to negotiate into a reasonable deal for both countries. This headline makes it sound like he lost out, and he really didn’t. Like, sure, we could have swooped in and helped Ukraine a little more, but in return we would get billions, maybe even trillions in return… It’s literally war profiteering out in the open.
That kind of shit used to be illegal and now we have Presidents televising his profiteering… This timeline is fucking nuts.
US assurance means as much as Russian assurance anyways, and US is known to go back on deals they themselves proposed and signed like what they are doing to Canada. So if the US isn’t even making a good faith attempt at a deal they likely wouldn’t stick to in order to protect Ukraine it just shows how corrupt negotions were from the start.
that is why it is important for smaller countries to join up to form something like EU and etc. so as to function like a big country.
I bet he chose to leave but Trump couldn’t handle the Truth.
Ukraine’s mineral resources really aren’t even that considerable on a global scale. They’re not insignificant but their economic value at the moment, even setting aside the war, doesn’t have American companies salivating.
This minerals for protection thing apparently was floated by Ukraine first to the Biden administration and Trump campaign. The Biden administration didn’t do much with it because, among other things, the actual economic and practical value was questionable.
Trump, on the other hand, just wants to be seen making deals. Zelenskyy and Ukraine first floated the general idea because they knew Trump is highly transactional and it’d give Trump an easy “win.”
I highly doubt trillions in profits are anywhere in the mix.
And you don’t want to negotiate anything with Trump directly. If Zelenskyy did that intentionally, he dropped the ball. Trump is far too mercurial and often only grasps issues in the most basic of senses. Trying to get into a nuts and bolts negotiation with him is pointless. Hammer that out first, get something signable without too onerous of long term commitments, compliment him, sign, move on.
So there’s a huge deposit between Mariupol and Donetsk, which is in Russian controlled territory. It’s probably the easiest to mine and most economically viable… I think that was the original plan Zelensky was thinking. Get some American mining infrastructure there and then thr US has skin in the game.
Trump seems to have a survey of the entire countries rare earth resources and is just taking the entire estimated value and splitting in half. Which as you pointed out is stupid, because a lot of the deposits are smaller or would be much more expensive to mine.
I think this is why Putin also was quick to mention cooperating with the USA on minerals in Russia (which from his POV includes those regions). I’m sure Zelenskyy/Ukraine would want to try to use that as leverage but I don’t think Trump bites.
There are some substantial reserves of various minerals elsewhere but not sure how viable and valuable they really are.
You mean in Ukraine? There are tons of other stuff to mine and even some rare earth outside of controlled area… It just is probably less profitable to mine. Here is a map
Ukraine’s mineral resources really aren’t even that considerable on a global scale.
Give me $10,000, because you know, on a global scale it’s not a lot of money, so you shouldn’t worry about handing it over to me. /s
For some people, $10,000 is a lot. A metric like “global scale” is so… Fuck, I can’t even think of a word. Assholic. You’re an asshole for using a word like that to describe this situation like it’s no big deal.
“Give me $10,000, because you know, on a global scale it’s not a lot of money, so you shouldn’t worry about handing it over to me.”
Hello strawman, someone put this ridiculous statement in a logic 101 course textbook. I mean, dafuq are you on about?
You see, it is a ridiculous statement. Which is why I’m bewildered that you were dumb enough to say it in the first place and you don’t see the sheer irony of calling what I said a strawman argument but not your own.
It’s like you don’t live in reality.
By god. I mean. Wow. Oof.
I am in no way (edit: nor have I ever even implied) devaluing Ukraine to mean that their only value is mineral resources. Why you concluded that is beyond me and baffling. Literally.
Ukrainians are certainly worth much, much than those resources in my view. Let’s say Ukraine’s natural resources literally magically disappeared overnight. So what? They still deserve justice and then some and we should protect democracies when and where possible.
Regardless, spinning minerals into some conspiracy theory with the USA extracting phantom trillions doesn’t advance Ukraine’s cause.
Dude I try to be polite here for its own sake but go touch some grass.
I am in no way (edit: nor have I ever even implied) devaluing Ukraine to mean that their only value is mineral resources.
That’s interesting, because that’s not what I implied at all. Keep digging though. I have faith you’ll catch it eventually. I’ll give you a hint;
Ukraine’s mineral resources really aren’t even that considerable on a global scale. They’re not insignificant but their economic value at the moment, even setting aside the war, doesn’t have American companies salivating.
See it yet? The strawman that you yourself used, I used back at you in a different context that you were able to correctly identify as a strawman but called mine bad but still think yours is good? lol
lmao you’re just smashing dunning kruger my dude. If you have an actual point just come out and say it. You’re trying to bend logical fallacies in a way that doesn’t work and starts to veer towards narcissism.
TBH, I think you know you started out on a foundation of absurd bullshit and now painted in a corner you’re just lashing out, hoping that you can intimidate people by blatantly misusing arguements.
You’re welcome to try to prove me wrong
That’s what the article says. Zelensky wanted to continue negotiations.
There are things the US has that they cannot get from the EU. If there would ever be a deal that would be the basis.
Europe, don’t count on America for shit. Do what needs to be done before Ukraine is wiped from the map. They will come for you too.
The U.S. are no longer the leaders of the free world. It’s up to Europe now. The U.S. is a fucking shithole.
The U.S. are no longer the leaders of the free world.
Frankly, most of the time that was said it was said by Americans and the rest of us just smiled and nodded politely.
Fair enough. It’s up to the E.U. now.
Let’s see if they’re going to get off their ass, or if they’ll just try appeasement again.
EU governments were completely happy letting it be the case as well. Don’t act like they were doing much to try and reduce their reliance on US aid.
Yeah, so? They were willing to play along as long as America was reasonably well behaved about it. That was the unspoken bargain of America’s Cold War and post-Cold War international influence - they got to have plenty of soft power, and in exchange they got to play out their World Police fantasy.
Now that’s going to be going away.
and the rest of us just smiled and nodded politely while nervously eyeing the gigantic stick America was waving around.
America was only ever the “leader” of the free world because no other country wanted to bother with going up against their military. They have bases all over the world. Politely nodding was considered a small price to pay for not being targeted by them.
But this current administration has proved that politely nodding won’t keep a target off of your back. So now, countries have started rethinking their attitudes towards those American military bases.
As an American, I’ve been more overtly disagreeing with the idiots saying this stuff.
Yeah most Americans don’t realize we’ve been slowly losing our Hegemony in world power since the world was well rebuilt after World War 2. But even I thought we had another few decades before we just shit the bed.
I find it sad that the only thing the typical American is concerned with is the price of gas. It makes me realize that the whole concept of “never again” is unrealistic, because people will always be unapologetically selfish and will refuse to learn from history. I really really hope I’m wrong.
It’s always been that way
American here, we are a shit country with shit people. Good luck and please liberate us from the fascists when it really hits the fan.
I find it interesting that some people think that this war doesn’t, or will not, concern them. Because it absolutely might and it will.
We will hopefully do that, but it’s also up to the American citizens to finally put up a proper resistance. One of the most worrying things to me is how indifferent the majority of Americans seem to be to their country turning fascist and betraying its allies. There were some protests sure, but they’re ridiculously tiny compared to protests in even much smaller countries like Georgia. It’s time to wake the fuck up before power has fully been consolidated and there’s no way back. Europe may be able to stand alone against Russia, but against Russia and the US will be tough.
I lost confidence in the American public. The egos that are displayed on TV and social media has brainwashed everyone. It’s infuriating to see it all.
It’s worse than indifference. I posted on NextDoor about NOAA being gutted (this was 2-weeks ago, not about today’s news) and the response was fucked. Got called a socialist, communist, “fuck is wrong with people when we try to reduce spending”, happy to spend money on weather apps as-is (who the fuck does that?!), liberal (in a bad way, of course), some shit about me shitting on vets (?!), on and on. Shit was so hard-on for Trump and Musk it was the most commented post for a week.
some shit about me shitting on vets
Which is weird, because Trump is well known for his hatred of veterans, especially veterans who were disabled in combat. And how he’s doing his best to strip them of what little support they actually had.
About 35% of Georgia’s population lives in Tbilisi. The second largest population center is is Batumi at around 6%. There are 360km between them.
The Los Angeles metro area is America’s largest population center at around 5% of the population. The DC metro area is the 7th largest at just under 2% of the population. There are 4300km between them.
This is on top of the car centric sprawl of US cities with minimal public transportation. If (even generously) 30% of the population wanted a unified protest, how would they reach each other? Let alone converge to protest at somewhere that matters.
Oh, come on. There are still cities with millions of people, where hundreds of thousands could easily get together to protest. Cities double the population size of the entire country of Georgia. There were much larger protests e.g. in DC under the first Trump administration but this time it’s too much of a bother?
That was after 4 years of unrest. “Could easily get together” sounds like its coming from someone who’s never had a daily 2 hour round-trip driving commute. Let alone the fact that half of America was sub 0°F (-17°C) for multiple days in the past month.
Protest size will grow as the weather warms up and the crackdowns fully begin. But don’t expect to see much on the news. This time around the media and tech moguls have all preemptively bent the knee.
You’ve answered the question of why America doesn’t protest, but maybe not in the way you think you have
Think whatever you want but I’m pretty tired of this weird ass foreign political exceptionalism. Why do the residents of Moscow not get shit for weak protests against Putin? Because America is far closer to that situation than other smaller countries facing a weaker central authority. But sure, just keep telling us to go burn the Reichstag…
Pretty easy to say “just get out and protest” when your local police don’t have armored cars and grenade launchers.
I watched this and I found it disgusting. It seemed to me that this was pure blackmail. This American government can’t be trusted to keep its commitments and I won’t be surprised if he pulls such stunts with Taiwan as well.
I wonder if any other world leader would like to visit the White House and be insulted by this administration !!
Americans are cowards for letting Russia take over their country
Murica died with a whimper!
We’re dying by a type of asphyxiation caused by sniffing our own farts for almost a hundred years.
It died with the sound of Putin’s balls being gurgled by Republicans
The greatest bigly whimper
Can someone tip me in on why Trump insists on sucking Putin’s pee pee?
Hard to dispute.
Yeah, but we’re rocking a steady 1.21 gigawatts off Ronald Reagan’s spinning corpse.
Thank the senile Joe Biden for that.
No
The Kremlin dictates U.S. policy.
The whole world sees it including the American people who clearly don’t care.
The majority of American voters have shown us who they are evil garbage.
Honestly, I’ve always refused to believe that “most” people are anything (ie., dumb, evil, etc). I But if does put things in question for me that so many people voted for Trump.
Putin’s arm is so far up the orange shitbag’s ass that you cam see the fingers waggle eveytime he opens his mouth
Mark my words: Trump will now sign a minerals deal in Ukraine with Putin
Trump and Vance are total imbeciles. Fucking toddlers are more coherent.
Just when you thought you couldn’t get any more embarrassed being an American.
This is a great window into how Trump, Vance and MAGA do business.
Bully. Yell. Lie. Threaten.
You think you’re as embarrassed as you could be? We’re just getting started. You can’t even see rock bottom from where we are now.
Americans will only start to feel embarassment when they need to apply for asylum in other countries to escape the housefire they started. Good luck with that, btw. Oh yeah, and that day still won’t be close to bottom. Friendly reminder that the turnover for food in the USA without resupply is 3 days.
Vance is the most cringe here. I swear if old age gets to Trump in the next four years Vance will do more damage to the American reputation that can be salvageable in the next decade or more.
Zel should fly to another country in EU for mineral deal
For a guy who said he’s not gonna start any wars, he sure is acting like a guy who’s gonna start a war.
He should fly to Brussels to discuss Europe’s offer. They won’t tell him repeatedly that he should be more thankful.
Removed by mod
I want to be clear this is the doing of Republicans in America they are evil.
It’s gonna be interesting watching to see if all the “All Russian people are complicit because they don’t rise up and kick Putin out” crowd actually put their money where their mouths are and show them how it’s done, or if it was all bluster.
To be clear, I hope it’s the former but I think it’s the latter.
Honestly, we – as Americans – are all complicit.
Then do something about it. If you’re still too hesitant or worried to show up to protests, then from Europe with love: Fuck you, go to hell.
There really aren’t many protests.
Unlike support for Trump in the US, support for genocidal imperialism among russians is at minimum a strong majority if not an overwhelming majority. The majority holds across all demographic segments; age, education, rural vs. urban, income.
At the point is usually when you hear arguments such as “all russians are afraid, they are all secret liberals” or “how can we truly know what russians think”.
It turns out that people that people who work in this areas do have methods of not only accounting for preference falsification, but even estimating it’s scope.
And even adjusting for preference falsification you still have at least a strong majority openly supporting imperialism and genocide.
Is this situation the same for support for Trump in the US?
Is this situation the same for support for Trump in the US?
I haven’t gone too in-depth into this, but a quick search show a 50/50 split in favorable vs unfavorable opinions of Trump. Last time I took a look, serious pollsters who found interesting ways of measuring support for Putin in Russia without endangering those participating found generally a 33/33/33 split between those in favor of Putin, those against, and those with no opinion (part of the intentional depoliticizing of the Russian population).
So, I guess it’s vaguely accurate to say there’s more people that dislike Trump in the US compared to Putin in Russia, but also more people that like him.
50% favourable (not net) is still a lot, but nowhere near as bad as in Russia were support for the annexation of Crimea was at 85% between 2014 and 2021 with no real preference falsification.
Do you a source on the 33/33/33 split in Russia? Genuinely curious, I try to read as much as I can on this and keep an up to date DB of relevant research pieces.
I of course disagree that just 33% of russians support putin. Multiple research works show much much higher numbers. But to be honest, I just want to check out the research.
It’s really hard to find on Google considering this was an academic paper from 3 years ago, but generally the big problem with polling in Russia is that for obvious reasons Russians are scared to give their honest opinions. If asked over the phone what they think of Putin, every politically neutral Russian and even some anti-Putin activists will say they approve.
From memory, the methodology they used was to give 3 propositions unrelated to Putin (less contentious policy decisions) and the respondents were only asked how many of the statements they agreed with, not which ones. Then they did the same thing again with 4 propositions (4th one being if they approve of Putin), then a 3rd time (this time with the 4th one being if they disapprove). With those 3 datasets, you can then essentially subtract the 3 unrelated propositions from the 4th one they actually cared about, all without requiring the respondent to actually state their opinion on the phone.
Yes, list experiments. There are several research papers with such methodology that I am aware of that cover russian support for the invasion of Ukraine. One shows 65% support for the full scale invasion (even after preference falsification adjustments). Another one regarding annexation of Crimea shows 80% support with no preference falsification (i.e. full alignment with other polling methods); an overwhelming majority of russian really do support the annexation of Crimes; the first stage of their invasion of Ukraine.
And even logically, the mere existence of preference falsification doesn’t inherently means that it is impossible for a strong majority of russians to be supporters of genocidal imperialism. The preference falsification would be have to be significant (which needs to be shown empirically).
The 33% support figure conflicts all other research on this topic (using any methodology), that’s why I was asking.
No worries if you don’t don’t a have link. I might do some random searches using 33% as a base. Cheers!
As a naturalized American, you have every right to say so.
As an American who didn’t make that mistake, I heartily agree.
If you were one who lived in USA and didn’t vote for him, what would you do to not “let this happen”?
