- cross-posted to:
- progressivepolitics@lemmy.world
- conservative@lemm.ee
- cross-posted to:
- progressivepolitics@lemmy.world
- conservative@lemm.ee
cross-posted from: https://lemy.lol/post/39626252
We have to agree where we ARE before we stand a chance to agree about what we do from here.
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I don’t think conservatives are interested in finding common ground. I mean, by all means try it. Just don’t get your hopes up.
Trumpers will never admit they were wrong or duped, because would mean the libs were right. No matter how much they lose on meme coins, or donate to causes that never happen, or get left behind with no transportation, they will NEVER admit they were wrong.
Because they would instantly be blacklisted from every group they’re apart of, much like a flat-earther finally admitting the truth. Their other friends and family have likely let them go from their lives, meaning the only people they have left are other trumpers.
They are more terrified of being alone than they are of living a lie.
Trumper will never…
Trumper human beings. They make mistakes and have bad opinions. Last week I met a Trumper who argued for an hour about how Covid wasn’t real. This week he was talking about civil war because he has realized what the administration is doing to him and people he cares about.
Never forget that our enemies are people. While they may not deserve your compassion, if you give it anyway, they will learn to see that they can deserve it and would like to. Treat them as individuals, not an out group
This week he was talking about civil war because he has realized what the administration is doing to him and people he cares about.
And next week he’ll change his mind again.
I dunno man, when you actually sat down and talked to him he seemed to really understand what was going on. He doesn’t like the tax laws, the tarrifs, the health crisis. He doesn’t like them at all, he just didn’t realize that the powers that be were manipulating the media he saw and information he received to make it seem like those were problems they would solve instead of cause.
He didn’t like listening to the guy that got angry and told him “Covid almost killed me!” But he did enjoy listening to the guy that befriended him and then started subtly bringing up issues with all the new legislation
I dunno man, when you actually sat down and talked to him he seemed to really understand what was going on.
They smile and nod and agree and then go back to the same old fucking lines, 99/100 times.
Get me in a room with an unsuspecting conservative, and I can get them to agree with Marx, Malcolm X, and Mao; their agreement means nothing, because their views are based on passing feelings, and will pass with those selfsame feelings. The media they like to consume, that caters to their feelings, also manipulates those feelings. You are up against their entire media consumption habits.
It’s only been one week. I’m not the one fighting that fight, but I’ll check in on it
Go read the shit over on r/conservative, and then tell me you think you can reason with those people.
Remember friend, the loudest minority seem to make the majority. You will make no progress with that mindset and only further this class/political division that keeps us from rising up against the oppressors.
Try to find humanity in your enemy
think you can reason with those people.
They are bots. The ones who upvote are bots, the ones who give those horrible takes are bots, and the small minority that do the same thing but more haphazardly are smoothbrains who don’t realize they’re in the company of bots.
Nah. They do have to admit they were fucking wrong. Otherwise it’ll just be the same stupid shit over and over again. Enough reaching out with olive branches.
We’re not fighting “conservatives” or “fascism” or the likes. It’s what we say all the time, but we’re fighting people.
So much can be done for people by being gentler than they deserve. Thus were the teachings of so many great voices throughout history, but we’ve forgotten them. The black rights movement, women suffrage? There were violent showings of force, but please remember how much the non-violent ones impacted the world before being self-defeating
Nah, they need to admit they were wrong, because they were not lied too. He’s doing what he promised, and then some. He didn’t trick anyone. What happens when Trump 2.0 comes out and they do the same thing? Are we still going to coddle them and say they were lied to for voting for exactly what is happening? They’re mad because they’re also being hurt, if not, they wouldn’t give two shits. If I can come to terms with being called a nazi and a genocidal fascist for voting against him instead of not at all, they can grow the fuck up and admit they were wrong.
Fucking snowflakes.
Sorry, but I wasn’t lied to. I never believed a word he said anyways.
I think Republicans can FAFO for the next 4 years and I’ll hunker down with my told you so button and laugh it off.
The problem is conservatives aren’t willing to admit it. They still argue that no matter what happens it would have been worse with a liberal president. Conservatives actually believe that Putin would be a better president than a democrat. We are fucked.
As we can tell from the reaction to the murder of a health insurance CEO the one thing almost every American agrees on is that we’re getting shafted by a bunch of rich assholes.
What can be inferred about Americans for voting in the Trump/Musk administration then?
Obviously, the hardcore rightwing nut jobs voted for him because they’re hardcore right wing nut jobs who want fascism. But we’re not interested in them. They don’t win elections in their own, as evidenced by Biden winning 2020.
It’s the people in the “middle” we’re interested in, the ones that don’t seem to owe a determined allegiance to either party. This time around they genuinely believed that Trump was the better choice to tackle corporate exploitation.
This belief was not based in anything in his platform or his politics - they find that stuff too complicated to parse, for the most part - but rather in the way he presents himself as an outsider, someone who’s mission is to burn down the status quo.
The status quo is corporate exploitation. The Dems presented themselves as a party of normalcy. A party that would defend and uphold the status quo and maintain continuity. Never mind that Biden actually made a lot of strong moves to reign in corporate power. That’s hidden in the details. The theme of Kamala’s campaign was “Business as usual.”
Trump presented himself, as always, as the enemy of “Business as usual.” They didn’t care about the details, just the broad notion that he would upset a system that needs to be upset.
This is why a substantial number of AOC voters also voted for Trump. A lot of these people care far less about party lines than you might think. What they care about most is the idea, the belief, that a candidate will stand against a broken and fucked up system that is killing America and the world. The Dems can’t win those voters by continuing to be a party of “Steady hand at the tiller”, which is why the left needs to primary the fuck out of every do nothing corporate Dem and put a progressive firebrand in their place, just like the right did to the GOP in the Tea Party takeover.
The person with the most power is traditionally listed before the slash.
I think this is a very meaningful post and I agree with the message. Directing anger across the political divide isn’t as helpful as seeking unity against a common adversary.
To lend some assistance in the indexing by search engines (though it may be unnecessary), I’m including the image text below.
You don’t have to admit that you were wrong.
Just admit that you were lied to.
And then let’s take America back together.
Take America Back. Together.
You were lied to. I was lied to. These corporate bobble heads are robbing our country and playing us for fools. It’s time the citizens band together against the rich and corrupt.
Amen. The answer to right-wing populism dependent on dividing the working class is a leftist populist message uniting the working class by pointing the finger at the rich who are the true root of all their problems.
Until the momentum is appropriated like the events everyone compares current events to.
I’m in. When? Where? How?
But you also were wrong just fyi
Super fucking wrong, and also super fucking dumb, not saying that as an insult I just care about you and think someone should tell your stupid ass
The second amendment is free. Correct your mistake any time, bub.
Instead of daring them to go die unilaterally, we could be forming well-organized militias.
a well-regulated militia… like some document mentioned 👀
You dared published this, ignorantly.
Your mistake to fix, not ours.
This image was crossposted from !conservative@lemm.ee. The average subscriber there probably has a much different interpretation of who the image could be referring to. Conservatives are not present in reality enough to even consider that Trump and Musk are the baddies — the “corporate bobble heads” and the “rich and corrupt” as the image says.
To my pleasant surprise, the top comments on the crosspost are sensible:
If you are “conservative” in any manner, you’ve been voting for the destruction of both people and society in both word and deed for the past 40 years.
Sure, you may want me to be beaten to death, but at least you admitted eggs aren’t cheap now, this makes us allies.
Wasn’t that the community that was taken over and is now conservative satire?
Wasn’t that !conservative@lemmy.world? From what I can see the .ee one is still under old management. Or did I miss something?
Oh, that’s possible! I wasn’t 100% sure either, hence phrasing it as a question.
On a side note - I find it hard to keep track of similar (or same) named communities…
Ah, I didn’t notice. I already had it on my blocked list so I glanced at it in another browser and saw about a dozen posts by a user named Donald J Musk that seemed to be sharing articles in earnest.
I’m pretty sure that dude is just having a good time trolling. I ain’t gonna feed it but I can see some satirical notes in the things he comments.
Yep. It’s all conservative (shitposting)
The average c/conservative user is decidedly not conservative
That isn’t a conservative community, fyi
No, it is. The one that’s now satire is on lemmy.world
They can’t they’re too busy being tickled pink their brown neighbors are being ethnically clensed, and black folks are losing all their civil rights protections. Don’t get confused. They voted for the racism. They are getting the thing they voted for.
Attacking the right is exactly what the people in power want. You don’t even have to admit you were wrong. Let’s agree that people on the right are otherwise good people that have been manipulated by the media to hate another group of people.
Why did you vote for Trump? ‘’ a group of Mexican men tried to kidnap and rape and kill me. People say I’m lying because I got away, but I saw 4 Mexicans in a van and they were looking at ME!‘’
This isn’t a delirious fever dream I had, this is a word for word conversation I had two days ago.
They voted for the racism. They are happy Trump is hurting all the right people.
Pretending they aren’t explicit ABOUT the racism is completely divorced from reality. I’m sorry you think kid gloves are going to solve this problem. But the problem isn’t liberals are just too darn mean. The problem has been, and continues to be, the deeply ingrained racism in American culture. This same person. In the same conservation. Said they voted for Obama. Because he was black. And they thought because they did that, racism is over. And now the fucking wet backs need to be round up and eliminated so they don’t rape and kill all the white women.
Why would they think that way? Could it have something to do with fox news and various influencers stoking fear by whispering in their ear that immigrants are violent?
Doesn’t the obvious disparity in their logic point away from simple xenophobia, and more towards them being indoctrinated members of a cult?
I’m not saying kid gloves are the answer, if they act like fascists they need to be punched like fascists. But if they want to turn their back on their cult, we should also make that path as easy as we can.
American racism isn’t ‘simple xenophobia’. American racism is an institution. The many arguments you hear from white people when they are called out for racism is nothing new these are long standing traditions. They still say lynched African-Americans were all rapists and murderers. The term ‘‘bleeding heart liberal’’ was coined by a PRO lynching political journalist in the 1800s to belittle people who were fighting to get lynching illegal and enforced and prosecuted.
When a whole town of some 10k to 30k people showed up to a lynching they actively enjoyed with a carnival like atmosphere, body parts of victim were gleefully gathered by children after him dying at the end of hours of torture, they sold them as souvenirs, they were selling postcards of the event, and it eventually got publicized.
The people who did this lynching carnival, this town population when the heard the nation was horrified and they were declared the most hateful and violently racist town in America, they were INCESNED, they weren’t racist after all. They just responded to a woman being murdered, and not sexually abused, who’s husband already fled town, buy finding the nearest black, mentally challenged, man and convicted him with an all white jury of killing and raping the woman. They weren’t racist! It’s not about race! They were just very good and just people who didn’t stand for black men raping all the white women.
When the last white heavy weight champion of the world was beat out by an African American, there were over 100 lynchings across the US immediately afterwords.
Right now, the US just had the largest protest in our history after George Floyd was murdered, the after effect is what? Well for a couple of months companies and sports teams shed their most racist mascots and brands, school boards and local governments tried to put reforms in place to protect civil rights, then the Supreme Court eliminated affirmative action, and the Trump admin is going after DEI like it’s a mission from God that no black person again hold any job that’s only fit for white men.
Black professionals have their profiles being deleted off every goverment source it could be found on. Studies done before affirmative action was ended showed that if the practice was ended in 10-20 years there would likely be 0 black doctors, lawyers, STEM, you name it. The son of a KKK member has control of every branch of government and white supremacy has never been stronger in my entire life.
This isn’t simple, mild xenophobia of a basic nature. This is THE American institution. And white people are making it loud and clear, you will be white in America, or you will self deport, or they will remove you from any accomplishment only white people can deserve, any job, anything above survival, and if white people kill you. Welll… looks like you shouldn’t have raped all the white women.
They only lynch criminals after all. They only deport criminals, they only imprison in to forced labor criminals. They’re not racist, why are the bleeding heart liberals so concerned with what happens to illegals and criminals? Why are they so mean already calling us racists? They just call everyone they don’t agree with racists is all nonsense.
I feel like you’re kinda agreeing with me here. You’re absolutely right that racism is institutionalised. The question is how much and how do you hold individuals accountable for an institutional problem?
One way racism often occurs is casually and lazily, with insufficient thought given. But the average American has been trained to be intellectually lazy and incapable of sufficient thought.
The other way racism occurs is through think tanks and cold calculated planning with the aim of the wealthy (mostly white) owning class pushing an agenda.
To me it seems the only possible ways out, if there even are any, is to a) fight institutional indoctrination or b) fight (ala Luigi) the people pushing the indoctrination. In neither of these solutions does directly fighting the indoctrinated people help whatsoever, and if anything it’s exactly what the owning class wants.
No good person is manipulated to hate another group. By default if you can be manipulated to hate a group you’re not a good person.
I guess I’m not a good person. I hate propagandists, I hate Republican “representatives,” I hate billionaires, I hate billionaires, and I also hate billionaires, mostly because they buy the “representation” that I hate and they buy the propagandists that I hate. Did I mention I hate billionaires too?
And you were manipulated by who to hate them?
